Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok, sO lets say i hit a flyer with a marker light. Then fire a seeker missle on it.
What is tthe ballistic skill is it resolved at? is it one or is it five?

five

What they aren't telling you is the flyer is only hit on a 6 regardless of BS, unless the seeker missle entries have been modified for skyfire special rule somehow in the game due to objectives or the like.

The rule says "This shooting is resolved normally in all regards at an assumed ballistic skill of 5

I haven't read the specifics in a faq (I don't play Tau). I'm just going off of a previous thread in you make da call on this topic. The end consensus was that the seeker missile hits on its bs of 5. It all came down to wording in the FAQ (I think)

Plus it's only fair. Come on, double 6 to strike.

Per the FAQ, if the vehicle the Seeker Missile is on is reduced to BS 1, the Seeker Missile still fires at BS5. The argument was that this overrides the Snap Shot wording of the shots being resolved at BS1. RAW they still fire at a BS1, however HIWPI, they fire at BS5. As pie zuri said, double 6's to hit with a guided missile is silly.

Yes you fire snap fire markerlights at BS 1 at the target, then you spend a markerlight hit to fire a seeker missile at BS 5. The FAQ even tells you this is how it works.

juraigmer, the FAQ says nothing about snap-firing the seeker missiles. Regardless of the vehicles BS, the Seeker Missile has a BS5, which when snap-firing is resolved at BS1.

The FAQ says that if the vehicle is reduced to BS1 for any reason, the seekers still fire at BS5.

Snap shots reduce it to BS1.

The FAQ then lets it ignore that.

So 6 on the marker light. 2 on the seeker to hit.

No, Snap Shots are resolved at BS1. It does not change the actual BS in any way shape or form.

It says seeker missiles are always resolved at BS 5.

Where does it state they always resolve at BS5?

The codex says it has an assumed BS5. The FAQ says that if the vehicle is reduced to BS1, it is still BS5.

Snap Shot says that the shot is resolved at BS1.

Snap Shot does not change the vehicles BS. Snap Shot does not change any models BS. All models are still at their normal BS, but the shot itself is resolved at BS1.

Page 3 of the FAQ

If a vehicle is reduced to BS 1... Do it's seeker missiles fire at BS 1 or BS 5?

BS 5

Furthermore the tau codex, page 29:

A seeker missile is fired normally in all regards at BS 5.

The tau codex sets the BS for seeker missiles at 5, specific vs general. Codex vs rulebook.

 juraigamer wrote:

Furthermore the tau codex, page 29:

A seeker missile is fired normally in all regards at BS 5.

I will start with this one.

"This shooting is resolved normally in all regards at an assumed BS5."

This tells us two things. It is treated as a normal shooting attack, and you use BS5 instead of the vehicles BS or the model calling in the strikes BS.

Page 3 of the FAQ

If a vehicle is reduced to BS 1... Do it's seeker missiles fire at BS 1 or BS 5?

BS 5

Show me where firing Snap Shot reduces your BS. Snap Shots are resolved at BS1. Otherwise, my Dark Reapers will be firing at Flyers or after moving at their normal BS of 4, since although they are firing Snap Shots, The codex says they are BS4.

Being shaken or stunned reduces all shooting from the vehicle to snap shots, also known as BS 1. Shooting at fliers resolves as snap shots if you don't have skyfire. The FAQ states that if for any reason the BS of the vehicle from were the missile is being launched from is reduced, it's not, it's always BS 5.

You always use BS 5. Same deal when using a positronic relay, you always roll a 2+ for reserves, that number cannot change.

Its in the FaQ.
Five.

Xzerios wrote:
Its in the FaQ.
Five.

Again, the FAQ does not cover Snap Shots at all in regards to a weapon whose shooting is resolved normally in all regards. It only tells us that the status of hte vehicle in regards to shooting does not confer to the missile. If it does not have the Skyfire rule, then when shooting at a Flyer it is resolved as a Snap Shot and thus is resolved at BS1.

Page 3 Tau 6th Edition FaQ wrote:
Q: If a vehicle is reduced to Ballistic Skill 1 (because it is Shaken, Stunned, for example) do its seeker missles fire at Ballistic Skill 1 or Ballistic Skill 5? (p29)
A: Ballistic Skill 5

When your Shaken/Stunned, you can only fire Snap Shots. Shots fired at Fliers are also Snap Shots.

Again, the FaQ covered this.

Again no it does not. It asks what is the BS if the BS of the vehicle is reduced. Technically, Snap Shots do not lower your BS. AFAIK, the only thing that can lower the BS of model is possibly a psychic power (and even then there may not be any). There is NOTHING that says that a seeker missile fired at a Flyer is not resolved at a Snap Shot. Even the FAQ doesn't tell us that the Seeker Missile is not fired as a Snap Shot if the vehicle is Stunned/Shaken.
If my Wave Serpent is Stunned/Shaken guess what the BS is. Here's a hint, the same as if it wasn't Stunned/Shaken. If my Dark Reaper moves he is still BS4.

Happyjew wrote:
Again no it does not. It asks what is the BS if the BS of the vehicle is reduced. Technically, Snap Shots do not lower your BS. AFAIK, the only thing that can lower the BS of model is possibly a psychic power (and even then there may not be any). There is NOTHING that says that a seeker missile fired at a Flyer is not resolved at a Snap Shot. Even the FAQ doesn't tell us that the Seeker Missile is not fired as a Snap Shot if the vehicle is Stunned/Shaken.
If my Wave Serpent is Stunned/Shaken guess what the BS is. Here's a hint, the same as if it wasn't Stunned/Shaken. If my Dark Reaper moves he is still BS4.

Your correct, Snap Shots are a set modifier value. In this case, none of the Tau units have Sky Fire currently. Next conclusion to be drawn is that the shots fired from anything Tau at anything with the Flyer type are counted as Snap Shots. The FaQ covered this (once again) by stating that the missile is resolved at Ballistic Skill 5. Another Set Modifier Value. The Set modifier Value in this case could be 7 for all I care before you fire your missile, but once you fire it, you now set your Ballistic Skill for that missile to 5 as the FaQ has told us to.

Ill say it again, FaQ covered it.
Five.

No consensus, nor indicative statement. within the FAQ mentioning flyers assuming are completely different circumstances and everyone is simply stating RAI rather than RAW which is fine. When you get to these points it's best to allow the d6 roll off and stop wasting time wondering. The weapon firing due to a hindrance is different than the weapon being used in a different circumstance. It would be like saying because someone is allowed smoke screens when stunned they can also flat out. Its different circumstances and it yet another grey area of 6th. just play fairly as possible

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
No consensus, nor indicative statement. within the FAQ mentioning flyers assuming are completely different circumstances and everyone is simply stating RAI rather than RAW which is fine. When you get to these points it's best to allow the d6 roll off and stop wasting time wondering. The weapon firing due to a hindrance is different than the weapon being used in a different circumstance. It would be like saying because someone is allowed smoke screens when stunned they can also flat out. Its different circumstances and it yet another grey area of 6th. just play fairly as possible

It isnt RAI. The example in the specifically cited a case where Snapshots were the only option to the model. In those instances, the model still fired at BS1, but the Seeker Missile still fired at BS5. Due to this example, it makes it a Set Modifier Value, much like a Snapshot but only in this case the codex trumps the BRB.

Again, its BS5 as the FaQ outlines.

Xzerios wrote:

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
No consensus, nor indicative statement. within the FAQ mentioning flyers assuming are completely different circumstances and everyone is simply stating RAI rather than RAW which is fine. When you get to these points it's best to allow the d6 roll off and stop wasting time wondering. The weapon firing due to a hindrance is different than the weapon being used in a different circumstance. It would be like saying because someone is allowed smoke screens when stunned they can also flat out. Its different circumstances and it yet another grey area of 6th. just play fairly as possible

It isnt RAI. The example in the specifically cited a case where Snapshots were the only option to the model. In those instances, the model still fired at BS1, but the Seeker Missile still fired at BS5. Due to this example, it makes it a Set Modifier Value, much like a Snapshot but only in this case the codex trumps the BRB.

Again, its BS5 as the FaQ outlines.

and yet we have seen games workshop create plenty of situations where circumstances differ froma ruling. In this one specifically it states it only during a snap shot while the vehicle is damaged, this is supported int eh fluff and text that tese are computer guided rockets designed to to launch independent of a vehicle even if it moves where no weapons can normally be fired. This is simply stating like other examples that the rocket is fired at normal ballistic skill in normal circumstances. Everyone is skipping key factors and examples because of how 6th is written, it ultimately isn't supported IMO for this.

The example in the FaQ is a model has had its BS reduced by either Crew Stunned/Shaken results (note folks, this doesnt really matter, the point is they are set up with BSx(x=Set Modifier Value))
Snapshots are a Set Modifier Value.
The answer to said example was to use the Seeker Missiles rule for BS5; Making it a Set Modifier Value as well.
Now defer to Codex vs BRB, codex wins.

If you want to cut this another way, no matter what BS your model is firing at; The Seeker Missile is fired at a BS of 5. Thats another way you can read the FaQ answer.

I dont see the big deal here. it can only be fired from a markerlight (which requires 6's to hit) then bs5 (still has a chance to fail) so your already trying to hit twice, just one time having a lesser chance to fail than the last.

I've already seen a few instances where the markerlights hit and the missile doesnt because 1's were rolled on the missile.

While the example is crew shaken or stunned, it still has to do with markerlights hitting the target and the missile firing. the missile is fired off the markerlight at BS5 (seekermissiles dont fire from the vehicle, IMO, they should just fire once the ML hits anyways, but whatever) seeker missiles really have nothing to do with what they are shooting at based on their rules.

Not that it really matters but fluff wise Seeker Missles are the Tau's anti air weapon so one would not expact it to hit on BS1. Going by the fluff it should be one of the best ait air weapons in game. Not needing 2 hits at BS 1 before damage.

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
No consensus, nor indicative statement. within the FAQ mentioning flyers assuming are completely different circumstances and everyone is simply stating RAI rather than RAW which is fine. When you get to these points it's best to allow the d6 roll off and stop wasting time wondering. The weapon firing due to a hindrance is different than the weapon being used in a different circumstance. It would be like saying because someone is allowed smoke screens when stunned they can also flat out. Its different circumstances and it yet another grey area of 6th. just play fairly as possible

No need for a roll-off. If I was playing against Xzerios' Tau, he would need a 6 followed by a 2+. It's a similar issue with Eldar Shadowseers. The parts in the faq that gets changed to Stealth and Shrouded don't affect the sporting distance part. RAW, I'd get both, but is not HIWPI.

 juraigamer wrote:
Being shaken or stunned reduces all shooting from the vehicle to snap shots, also known as BS 1. Shooting at fliers resolves as snap shots if you don't have skyfire. The FAQ states that if for any reason the BS of the vehicle from were the missile is being launched from is reduced, it's not, it's always BS 5.

You always use BS 5. Same deal when using a positronic relay, you always roll a 2+ for reserves, that number cannot change.

Right so since there are no arguments, we are good to go with this rule.

Wait...did you just agree with what you yourself said?

Nowhere does it specify what BS to use when firing a weapon as a Snap Shot, except under Snap Shots (and Foreboding/Skyfire). If a weapon fires a Snap Shot at any BS other than 1 it would need to specifically state this.

The FaQ answer states that the BS5 of the Seeker Missile is a Set Modifier Value, just like Snapshots are. In this case, your differed to Codex vs BRB and since it states the Codex wins, the FaQ answer goes hand in hand with what the BRB calls for us to do.


Set the BS of the missile to 5.



(Also, I play Necrons (hehe). But I do like to keep up with the odd rules and such from other armies)