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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

To view the previous report in this series, click here. To view the next game, click here. To view more battle reports in The Hand of the King series, click here.

To view the tactical overview for this report, click here.


***


"There," Melchoir noted, satisfied.

It was all finished. He had spent the past day fortifying his position. He was completely lost, in a solid wall of atmospheric ground cover, far behind enemy lines (he thought), with no communication with anybody. At least now, he had those few surviving soldiers properly positioned for defense. Well, mostly.



"Hmph," the priest replied. Defense.

"Oh, come now, Sanario. Hard manual labor is good for morale. Better than them just sitting around freezing."

"Yes, morale can only be maintained by hardship," the priest was forced to admit, "but now we have no more manual labor to keep up morale. I would like to note that there is no limit to how long a group can be force marched for."

"Well, the breeze shifted a few hours ago," the officer replied, a keen observer of his surroundings, "it can't take long now before this all clears up."

"In the mist or clear," the priest retorted, "I can eviscerate just as well in either."

"Yeah, if only the same could be said for those shooting lasguns."

"All we need is faith."

"Well, faith we have. We also have some decent defense-works now, too. Really, all we lack is hookers and liquor."

"Just hookers," the priest replied.

"Oh?" Melchoir asked.

"I still have a half crate of my liquid fortitude left. We'll have to ration it carefully, though. I don't know when I'll get more."

"See? This is why logistics matter."

The priest rolled his eyes.

He had to admit, though, the officer's needless cunning was occasionally handy. The wind blew in strongly from the south. Already the wall of grey around them was quickly breaking up. Perhaps they'd be getting hookers now after all.

He looked around at the men. They were starting to stir as the fog blew away.

The priest squinted down the line. He had been up and down it several times today, and there was something there that decidedly didn't belong. As the sunlight pierced down from above, he saw it.



"Melchoir!" Sanario cried in alarm. The officer quick looked over and saw the enemy vehicle, just itself beginning to notice its environment.

"Enemy!" Melchoir shouted, "They're here! Everybody open fire!"

Confusion reigned as the guardsmen suddenly found the enemy around them. Two enemy skimmers were literally already inside their defenses. Lasgun shots quickly began to erupt, followed by hastily fired lascannons booming over them.

On the left, the mist rapidly blew away, leaving an exposed target, a nearby officer turned his lascannon team and fired into it at point blank range. The skimmer exploded in a spray of violent shrapnel. Right in front of the command squad, another did the same a heartbeat later.





"Keep firing!" Melchoir ordered as his troops began to engage the survivors scrambling from the wrecks.

All at once, the once-impregnable fog suddenly flew off the top of the hill.

Melchoir looked forward. There were more of them coming up at him. These weren't lost enemy, or a probing action, this was a real attack!

Then the aircraft arrived. From the skies poured down the first wave of enemy fighters, their engines screaming against the departing clouds.



"Hold your positions! Keep firing!" the officer shouted again. With a sudden burst of violence, the enemy slammed into their defenses.



As the enemy fliers spotted the guardsmen below, the swooped down and began to strafe them. The guardsmen, in a panic, desperately tried to return fire on the aircraft.

"No!" Melchoir shouted, "No! No! Shoot the ground targets, the ground targets! You're never going to hit anything up there!"

The guardsmen only started to get the message as two enemy champions that had survived the skimmer crashes rushed in to attack them.





Those nearby fired desperately into the attackers, masses of well-drilled overwatch fire attempting to find their targets, but only too late. Already the enemy was beginning to wade through them.

Melchoir looked forward again. Behind the enemy overlords was even more units coming forward. As the mist continued to fly away, the officer's jaw dropped. Behind the attackers that had already made it up the hill there were more. And then there were more.

In a few moments, the officer stood in shock as thousands of enemy soldiers began to appear before him, backed by hundreds of vehicles. Their armor shone in the emerging sunlight. The great horde of them writhed forwards.

An entire army was attacking just Melchoir Theleos.

He didn't know where he was, or where the rest of his army was, but exactly one thought passed through his mind.

"Fall back!" the officer shouted, "Everybody! Let's get out of here!"

The officer turned and began to run away himself.

"Oh no you don't!" Sanario bellowed chasing after him, "Come back here!"



Melchoir turned and saw the priest revving his chainsword at him. He desperately tried to speed up, running away from the priest. It was no good, though. Despite being a fair bit older, the priest was in much better shape and was at least a foot taller. The clergyman soon tackled the officer to the ground.

"Where do you think you're going?" he demanded.

"Are you INSANE!?" Melchoir shot back, "A hundred of us against a hundred THOUSAND of them?"

"All you need is faith, Melchoir."

"All I need is an entire damn army!"

"Peace, Melchoir," the priest retorted, calming his voice. Around him, guardsmen began to obey the order to fall back.

"Halt!" the priest shouted, "Halt men of Folera!"

Some of the guardsmen began to slow, confused by the conflict in orders, and confused by why their commanding officer's throat was getting stepped on.

"Knights of Folera!" the priest continued, "Now is not the time to shame yourself! Now is not the time to be a coward! Your mothers and wives at home are depending on what you do here today. Your kallistas and your king are watching you here and now. Your whole planet is here, by your side! You are fighting, here and now, in the name of the God-Emperor of all Mankind!

A day may come when you break your oaths. A day may come when you fail everything that is good and right. A day may come when you let xenos, heretics, and TRAITORS have their way unresisted. But it is not this day! Not this day will you pathetically die in vain! Not this day will you face the enemy and fail! Not this day!

This! This is the day we fight! This is the day we do our duty to our king and to our god! Right now! Turn your lasguns, and fix your bayonets!"

"But we need reinforcements!" Melchoir protested weakly.

"You need reinforcements?" the priest shouted, "All you need is faith!"

Sanario looked up. As the first wave of enemy fighters swept past, another wave of aircraft came in from the other direction. Dozens, hundreds of valkyries and vendettas flew over them, and toward the massive enemy army below. A massive roar overwhelmed them as they streaked over at low altitude, formation after formation blowing by them.

The priest weakened his grip on the officer, who squirmed out from underneath him. Melchoir got to one knee. The officer, the priest, and a few dozen guardsmen all looked down the south side of the hill, away from the enemy.

There, arrayed in front of them, was what must have been the entirety of the Foleran 3rd army.

"But I guess if that's not enough for you," the priest continued, "... then I guess reinforcements will have to do."

Melchoir was speechless. He had never been directly between more armed men in his entire life.

"See?" the priest said, turning to the men, "This fight is not lost, it is hardly beginning! And it is we who will draw first blood! Come on, men, to war!"

With a great shout, the Melchoir group turned around and charged back towards their defended positions.



From all around them, the first wave of reinforcements began to pour in. A few valkyries saw the battle going on on top of their hill and dropped off some stormtroopers. A recon detachment that had been lost in the fog joined the fray.







The priest ducked down as a vendetta swooped in overhead, narrowly missing a nearby ruin. From its back hatch, a squad of kingsguardsmen repelled down with frightening speed. Those with flame throwers ignited their pilot lights as the aircraft quickly pulled away.



Yes, things were just getting started.

"Men of Folera!" the priest shouted, "Charge!!!!"

Fired by the oratory of the priest, those few, brave soldiers began to rush forward to engage the enemy.



Sanario watched as the stormtroopers nearby began to unload their hellguns into the enemy overlord in front of them. At first, the shots struggled to find their mark, but as the enemy charged in, every step brought it into harder and harder fire. A mere few feet in front of them, the hellguns pounded the enemy lord to the ground. It wasn't even able to make it into close combat.

The priest turned and looked at the other enemy overlord, who likewise fell to a massive barrage of spirited lasfire. The enemy in their midst was now gone. There was now only enemy in front of them. Now, there was only forward.

Sanario looked up as a second wave of enemy fighters descended upon them. The priest scowled as the aircraft began their strafing run.


***

"Approaching coordinates now," the gunner's voice crackled to the pilot.

"Ground cover insufficient to identify targets," the pilot replied.

"I think it's clearing up."

"Affirmative."

The valkyrie swept forward through the low-hanging clouds. Beams of sun began to break through, splashing rays of light onto the wings of the aircraft as they shuttled through. This was it, the big offensive. An entire army backed up by all the air power that could be found. Now all they needed to do was to find the battlefield.

"Do you think we passed it?"

"Negative, this should be the place."

"Should I call formation command?"

"Negative, gunner. Just keep your pants on."

The clouds suddenly began to give way in a stiff breeze a few hundred feet below them.

"That's more like it."

Suddenly, out of the clouds, a wave of enemy fighters blew right through the massive formation of loyalist aircraft. The short-wave vox began to chirp and crackle as a dozen voices all broke out at once.

As the two groups of aircraft passed through each other, they both began to react to the unexpected presence of the other. The valkyrie gunner was nervous. He had never been in a dogfight before. He was never supposed to be IN a dogfight ever. He was supposed to deliver cargo.

The aircraft on the fringes began to circle as dozens more valkyries and vendettas pushed through. The perimeter would handle these threats, they had a mission. The gunner looked down as the ground suddenly melted into view. Before them rose a large hill.

"Hill!"

"Piloting the bird is my job," the pilot retorted as they flew low over the hill.

"Hey!" the gunner shouted, "There were guardsmen down there. Fighting. We must already be over the battle."

That was good enough for the pilot. He calmly switched on the door lights and began to lower the back hatch. He brought the vehicle around in a wide, swooping arc, his wingman banking his own vehicle around to follow him. The two fliers circled through the evaporating mist. Below them, they could see Foleran infantry units already engaged in battle.

The pilot knotted his brow for a moment. This wasn't right. The army underneath them was still behind, so who were these guys? Well, it didn't matter now. They were friendlies, and they were fighting. That was good enough for him. Plus, he'd already opened the door, and he'd already almost come to a stop. He flipped the door light switch.

The dark cabin suddenly switched from red to green. The stormtrooper sergeant shouted for his men to pile out of the vehicle. As the flier just barely came to a stop, the men were already repelling down to the earth below.

As boots hit wet earth, the Kingsguard took stock of their situation. It wasn't difficult. The stock was that there was a gigantic mechanical walker striding forward.

"Take it down!" the sergeant barked. Immediately, soldiers with meltaguns raced forward. The walker tried to turn to see what the commotion behind it was, but the Kingsguard was already in the action. Seething melta blasts ripped off two of the vehicle's legs. As it stumbled onto its side, another shot found its mark as the stormtroopers attacked with practiced precision. Suddenly, the vehicle erupted in a fireball, spraying burning fuel and bits of the machine. The shrapnel pattered harmlessly off of their reinforced armor.

"And that is how it's done, gentlemen," the sergeant stated as a second, smaller explosion let out another fireball from the wreck in front of them. As far as the sergeant was concerned, if there wasn't something dead within 15 seconds of landfall, they were doing some thing very, very wrong.

The sergeant turned and looked behind him. There hovered an alien skimmer, pulsing with malice and power. There were other stormtroopers that had landed behind it, and were desperately attempting to bring it down with meltaguns, but to no avail.

"Amateurs!" the sergeant growled, "Come on, boys, let's show them how it's done!"

The stormtroopers ran forwards. Suddenly, the enemy vehicle opened up with its guns, sending hundreds of pale-green beams of energy towards them. The meltagunners opened fire at the enemy vehicle, while enemy soldiers inside fired back.

The meltaguns scattered and bounced off of the quantum shielding. A krak grenade was thrown to no effect. The sergeant took one of his own krak grenades out and primed it. One by one, the stormtroopers around him began to fall. They were right in the thick of the enemy, being attacked from everywhere.

At full-sprint, they managed to make it up to the vehicle's hull.



They threw their grenades in. The enemy desperately tried to throw them back out again, but to little avail. The air burst with a half dozen krak grenades exploding in the middle of the transport, sending bits flying out from inside. The skimmer began to buck up and away, floating over their heads.

The sergeant turned to follow as enemy fighters poured down around them.



The aircraft murderously strafed at the Kingsguard, narrowly missing their own vehicle on the ground. The stormtroopers instinctively ducked as the air around them began to explode in death and violence.

A loud rush blew overhead as the strafing fighters flew off. The sergeant turned and looked at the other squad, now greatly depleted. The stormtroopers were running away.

"Where are you going?" the sergeant demanded from the other Kingsguardsmen.

"Strategic withdraw!"

"No you're not!"

"Sarge said to get out of there if he were killed, and he's killed now, so see 'ya!"

The stormtroopers continued to scramble away from them.

"Amatures!" the sergeant angrily shouted. No way that their sergeant had given them that kind of a lame-ass order.

The other stormtroopers gave a few parting shots with meltaguns as they ran, but it was no use.



The sergeant would have to solve his problem himself. The sergeant gave the order, and the rest of the stormtroopers followed him into a nearby ruin for cover.

There was the enemy vehicle, floating in front of them. Behind, a group of regular infantry was running up to meet them. The enemy skimmer began to open fire on them as they advanced. The sergeant looked around. The area was now clear except for this one floating menace.

"All right, boys, lets get it!"

The few remaining stormtroopers ran around and took up positions in the windows of the ruins. The lone meltagunner opened up at the thing. A hissing beam of destruction slammed into it from mere feet away. The air began to glow as the prismatic spray of the quantum shielding held against the weapon.

"Keep it up! Keep firing!"

Eventually the shimmering field in front of them began to flicker and warp. Finally, the quantum shielding gave in, just as the meltagun ammo tank ran dry.

"Reloading," the stormtrooper informed. It wasn't needed.

From somewhere else upfield, a lascannon team had seen the failure of the quantum shielding and had sent it a volley. The blast ripped through the vehicle and through the doorway between two stormtroopers. The vehicle wrecked burst into flames. Enemy soldiers bailed out as fast as they could before a series of explosions began to crumble the once-mighty vehicle.

Now all that was left was a handful of enemy. The whole location would soon be secure.



The enemy saw the guardsmen approaching. They unloaded with their unholy bale-guns into them, ripping them apart, flesh and armor. The sergeant watched as the other stormtroopers continued to retreat, while a wave of guardsmen advanced.

Things would be secure soon... if it weren't for these enemy fighters.

A third wave came down out of the sky, drawn into the fury of battle. A couple of sentinels nearby exploded as an enemy fighter launched a long, focused beam of incredible power at them, easily slicing the vehicles in two. More fighters fell out of the sky and mercilessly strafed the guardsmen.

As they began to take casualties, the enemy charged in.



But the Folerans fought back. Where one group of guardsmen fell, two took their place. Some more stormtroopers, running in the RIGHT direction came up from behind them, blasting flame thrower fire into the few enemy soldiers left.

"Reloaded, sarge," the meltagunner behind him said.

"Good! I want you to take THAT one down," he ordered, pointing to one of the larger of the enemy who seemed to be in command. The stormtrooper dutifully obliged as the rest of them began to pick into the enemy with hellgun fire.

The sergeant peered through all the chaos, and saw something that he did not understand. As he fired at the enemy mechanical soldiers, chunks would be blown off of them, but then, as if my some sorcery, the various parts would reassemble themselves. His meltagunner shot his target clean in half with an anti-tank weapon. The torso fell to the ground, but then floated back up in its various constituent pieces and began to re-form.

"What in the hell?" the sergeant muttered. Hundreds of lasrounds poured in, but the enemy just didn't seem to be effected. Bits flew off and flew on. The enemy fired back, uncaringly.

They were literally invincible.



More fighters came in and in a great blast of electrical fire, began to wipe away the guardsmen. Like wheat to the scythe, they fell by the dozen. What was going to be an easy victory was quickly devolving into a massacre.

What in the hell was going on here?

A sound caught the sergeant's attention. He whirled around.

There were enemy. Right behind him. Staring silently with their cold eyes.

"Oh shi-"


***

The conscript winced as he charged forwards.

Behind him was arrayed the entirety of the power of mankind. In front of him was absolutely nothing. As far as he could tell, he was literally the first guardsman. That one. Right in front.

This made the conscript unhappy. He took no comfort whatsoever at the prospect of being the first to get in there and fight the enemy. None even a little at all.

But unhappiness came only right after regret. There were lots of things he regretted. He regretted the first person he had slept with. He regretted the last thing he said to his parents. He regretted being a conscript. Most of all, he really, really regretted forgetting to feed the crown prince's cat while he was away on command. That was his one job. How could he be so stupid? That one mistake would now be his last, he was certain. Well, at least, the crown prince was certain.

No, the conscript was pretty certain too.

It wasn't all so bad, though, he began to suppose. At least he had a lasgun, and that wasn't nothing. The guy to his immediate right was armed only with a shoe. And he had had to take it off of his foot to use it as a weapon, hobbling across the broken terrain with one bare foot.

Meanwhile, the guy to the left of him was armed with a lasgun, but it didn't have an ammo pack. The guy one further left was armed with a laspack, but not a lasgun. At least they both had weapons of some sort.

He wondered if they, too, had regrets as the massive wave charged up the hill. That was something he had always found so odd. Being a conscript was so depersonalizing. Everybody had a personality. Everybody had a story. Everybody had a shoe, or an ammoless lasgun, or a lasgunless ammo, and it was THEIR story. THEIR ammoless lasgun. Well, no, the lasgun belonged to the Imperial Guard, but their stories were still theirs. And here they were, all of them the same, none of them really mattering.

He wondered if this was the last thing he was going to wonder. The last thing he'd ever think about, in what was just about to be his very rapidly approaching end. Well, that would be dumb. He should at least be able to say that he went out thinking about titties as he was brutally gunned down, or something. Well, he wouldn't actually be able to say anything, because he'd be brutally gunned down, but the point still stood in principle.

As they made it to the top of the hill, an enemy aircraft circled overhead, and deposited some infantry.



To the conscript's surprise, they didn't immediately turn and fire at him. In fact, they turned and fired at someone else. Were there more guardsmen up here? He could hear the sounds of fighting, but you could never tell in a battle.

Well, that would certainly be a comforting thought.

As they charged up the hill, the conscript brought his lasgun up. Who knows, maybe he'd actually get a chance to kill something before he was gruesomely dismembered.

Just a few feet more... Just to the top of the hill.

And then they were on them. They had caught them completely by surprise.



With the mass of the entirety of the army behind them, the cosncripts barreled into their enemy. Lasfire began to blast all around them. Some of the shots were even aimed. Improvised weapons were launched, thrown, tossed, or shunted (depending on which verb seemed most applicable, based on the various weapons) into the enemy. Caught completely off guard, they began to fall to the inrushing guardsmen.

Those who survived were knocked to the ground in a human tide. They were beaten viciously as best as the guardsmen were able.

One of them wrenched free one of the enemy arms and held it aloft. In the confusion, he took a moment to put his other shoe back on, satisfied with his replacement weapon.

As the guardsmen continued to rush forwards, they came across the scene of a battle. The top of the hill was now deserted, save loyalist casualties everywhere strewing the ground. Above them, a feat of stupendous aerial acrobatics was unfolding. Hundreds of aircraft swirling around each other in a massive dogfight.

The conscript came up to a ruin where a wounded officer and a wounded priest were hiding.

The officer gave the conscripts a thumbs up as they began to pass by.

"You know, we really need to get better armor," the conscript could hear the officer say to the priest as he ran by.

He made it to the top of the hill.

Before him spread out a wide plain. The entirety of the enemy army charged forwards up towards him.

He wished he had better armor too.


***



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/30 01:01:14


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar






Excellent report, as always.

Interesting to see that conscripts are beginning to lose their luster.

Also, how are you so accurate on battle reports? Do you take notes during the game?

40k: IG "The Poli-Aima 1st" ~3500pts (and various allies)
KHADOR
X-Wing (Empire Strong)
 Ouze wrote:
I can't wait to buy one of these, open the box, peek at the sprues, and then put it back in the box and store it unpainted for years.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

Well, it's not so much as they're getting worse per se, so much as they're starting to settle in. My understanding of them is getting more nuanced, and my opponents are getting more savvy.

As for remembering what happened, well, a few things.

Firstly, I've been doing these battle reports for awhile now, and when you do anything enough you start to slowly build up pertinent skills. After a hundred games and battle reports, eventually you're just going to be able to remember what happens as you cultivate the ability.

Secondly, I take pictures. Back in my 5th ed days, I'd take two pictures a turn. Not only would I remember what happened, but I'd actually mark them up. It's pretty easy to see what died when you have two pictures to look at, and in the first picture something is there, and in the next picture, it isn't. Even without the ultra-specific markups, though, pictures still go a long way to cue your memory.

Thirdly, nowadays, well, they're just not as accurate. One of the things I thought about when preparing to do battle reports in 6th ed was to really critique how I had done them before. I came to the conclusion that I had a lot of detail in my 5th ed ones, but a lot of that detail was meaningless. It's just clutter. It doesn't actually matter which exact models go where, or what every single die roll was. You can achieve the end result of telling the strategic/tactical story better with LESS information, not more. What's actually important is that you relay the right information. If you need to have all the information in to include the right information, then that's better than not including enough information, and thus not including he right information, but I really do think it's possible to have only the right information, without all the extra needless data.

As such, there is actually less that I need to remember, because I don't need to remember information that isn't useful.

Then you have to add to this, the fact that I'm doing the narrative reports. Unlike my 5th ed diagram-based reports, the point of the narrative side is simply to tell a good story. As such, these reports aren't trying to be a faithful retelling of exactly what happened, so much as a story based on what happened in the game to varying degrees of accuracy. They're largely based on what happens, but I don't promise that things in the narrative side went exactly the way they went.


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar






Excellent. I do want to try posting battle reports (as the meta in my area seems to be way different then the meta everywhere else) and it will finally give me a reason to really get in depth with my back story.

If I may add something, I think you would have done better in this match if you had something to hit fliers with. Ignoring them made your opponent more mobile. Perhaps try running an Aegis with a Lascannon?

40k: IG "The Poli-Aima 1st" ~3500pts (and various allies)
KHADOR
X-Wing (Empire Strong)
 Ouze wrote:
I can't wait to buy one of these, open the box, peek at the sprues, and then put it back in the box and store it unpainted for years.
 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





Boston-area [Watertown] Massachusetts

Hiya, HG, another Dakka going to Adepticon! Woot!

I believe A's overall anti-flyer plan is to...ignore flyers. His 'double down ground' plan seems to be working very well. Yes, he took a lot of damage from the air, but the turning point of the game, from reading the tac report, is a major dice whiff on the Ark, causing him to have to take an extra turn (and some horrendous losses due to the broadsides rule). He also mentions at least one round of very bad armour saves.

I feel that Ailaros was very much in control of the game, here, throughout all the turns. He maintained tempo, and dictated the battle to his opponent. Pretty good against the best codex in the system.

I also think that he is having a better TIME in 6th, than 5th. Winning certainly helps one's mood, but (and correct me if I'm wrong here, Ailaros) he feels more in control of the game, and that there are tactical decisions being made that actually affect the game.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/23 22:55:46


Falling down is the same as being hit by a planet — "I paint to the 20 foot rule, it saves a lot of time." -- Me
ddogwood wrote:People who feel the need to cheat at Warhammer deserve pity, not anger. I mean, how pathetic does your life have to be to make you feel like you need to cheat at your toy army soldiers game?
 
   
Made in us
Frenzied Juggernaut





The Emperor's Forge Mitten, Earth

Another great bat rep. Gotta love those lucky last turn flyer kills that come out of left field though.

I am curious to see how well your sentinels do. I agree with the need for lascannons, but it might not hurt to load up your sentinels on autocannons to act as an anti-air unit. It just seems that because you need those 6s to hit you're better off with overwhelming firepower against them. That and against side or rear armor on most ground vehicles the autocannon isn't too bad usually.

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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

Right. In a way, these last dozen games or so have been an experiment I've been running on anti-fliers.

The basic premise is that having a small amount of anti-flier is a bad thing, because anyone with a serious air force (like my opponent in this game) is going to be able to brush off a few dedicated anti-air units easily, which means I'm not getting much use out of them, and against non-fliers, I may or may not be getting much use either, stranding those points spent on a "flier tax" in the absence of fliers.

Now, of course, I could double down on anti-flier, or, naturally, I could run an air force of my own. The first may be good, and the second certainly is. Of course, I personally have little interest in vendettas.

As such, the hypothesis is that you can deal with fliers by ignoring them. Fliers show up late, may not have to fly off the board, and can never score, contest, or claim linebreaker. As far as victory points are concerned, fliers are completely useless (well, not on purge, but I digress).

Now, if my opponent has to remove points from units that DO score victory points in order to take fliers, that means that I have an advantage with regard to victory points. My opponents can kill stuff with their fliers, and that's annoying, but it's not, strictly speaking, different than my opponent killing my stuff on units that aren't also fliers. Meanwhile, if I spend most of my resources killing off my opponent's scoring units, while providing way too many of my own, then the end result is going to be some sad fliers hovering over the battlefield that I otherwise completely control.

If I double down on this victory point advantage, can I win? That's what I'm trying to find out.

And the results so far are promising. Take this game, for example. We start with a mission that's not flattering to my strategy (the only one worse is purge), as it doesn't require much in the way of scoring units. We then add some really rotten luck right at the very end of the game, which, if it had been the other way around could have easily seen me win. Against this list, which is actually a great test case, I ALMOST got it. Given slightly more favorable dice, or slightly more favorable missions, I'd have an even easier time of it.

Now, I'm not going to say that this is some great innovation here, or some sort of hard counter. Obviously if what I really hated was a necron flying circus, I'd take 9 vendettas and be done with it. For me, all I need to do is have this concept be good enough. My opinion that it is is getting stronger.

However, I do still feel that it requires a great deal of discipline, both in the list building and on the table. If I'm ignoring fliers and focusing on scoring units, then I've got to really ignore the fliers, and really focus on the scoring units. In this case, I'd see throwing a few points at anti-air as a distraction that would weaken my over all.

In fact, I've been thinking about my list and, with a few tiny exceptions, I think I've basically got this list as good as I'm possibly going to get it. Well, the best it could possibly be would involve me dropping the priest, but that's not going to happen.


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Burtucky, Michigan

Now that was an enjoyable way to read a batrep. Nice work. Also, love to see your guard on the table, they look great
   
Made in ba
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Greater Manchester, UK

Ah, bliss, another batrep from Ailaros. I always look forward to them.

My tuppence on your current army composition is along the lines of what's been said above about Sentinels. I'd personally suggest dropping all upgrades on them; my personal use of scout sentinels is as lurkers. They need to be low threat, because once they get targeted (and/or sneezed at) they're blown off the board in a heartbeat. Giving them lascannons just doesn't seem to fit with the tactical philosophy behind sentinels; light, low cost, low priority units with reasonable mobility.

I've tended to use a single scout sentinel as a sniper with his multilaser (remarkably good against light vehicles and marines for some reason) and its survivability is the fact that it's just not all that scary compared to the rest of my army, allowing it to contest and clear objectives in the late game.
In addition, a little bit of S6 might actually be useful in your army. It's still focused on the ground game, after all, but those multiple shots give you a better chance when it comes to shooting at flyer rear arcs.

I just kinda get the feeling that armed with lascannons, they'll never survive to influence the outcome of a game, whereas with multilasers they might. Call it tactical camouflage if you like.

Other than that, looking forward - as ever - to the next report. Pretty much the only reason I lurk on Dakka at all these days is for batreps, primarily thine, secondarily Panic/Arbitor.

Run a whole lot of wfrp and other rpg's, play The Woods and Kill Team, gather and look mournfully at imperial guard knowing I'll never finish enough to use them on the tabletop  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I'm not sold on Sentinels. They don't seem to offer much in their practical one turn of being alive.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

So, where I was coming from with these sentinels was that I wanted a lascannon HWS, except with the optional 45 point upgrade that gives them all AV10 (so that they're not literally wiped away instantly), and that guarantees them at least a turn of shooting, and that gives them outflanking.

In this case, I got 5 lascannon shots off over two turns of shooting. I don't think I'd be able to expect more from a lascannon HWS. I'd more seriously consider crappier weapons, but I don't really see how I need crappier weapons. I'd rather just have more of the good ones.

Certainly if they had less potential for doing damage, they would survive longer, but would surviving longer mean that they actually do more damage?

In any case, I'll be needing more than just one trial to get a feel for hem.


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





Boston-area [Watertown] Massachusetts

For the role you have, I do not believe they are crappier. In fact, I suspect they're better. (a) they are cheaper, allowing you to use some points elsewhere (or make up for the Priest's cost a bit. (b) since they are outflanking, you should be able to position them so their Str7 shots are more effective than a lascannon to front armour. (c) you get more shots, thus negating some dice luck. Now, the advantage of the LC is that nice high strength and +1 on the damage chart. I think the edge is SLIGHTLY on the Autocannon sentinels. YMMV.


Falling down is the same as being hit by a planet — "I paint to the 20 foot rule, it saves a lot of time." -- Me
ddogwood wrote:People who feel the need to cheat at Warhammer deserve pity, not anger. I mean, how pathetic does your life have to be to make you feel like you need to cheat at your toy army soldiers game?
 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





One potentially important factor to consider is that an autocannon against side armor for Chimera/Predator-chassis vehicles is typically as good as a lascannon against front armor is for producing Explodes results, but the autocannon does more Hull Point damage and is more reliable.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

I don't see it.

Firstly, not all side armor is terrible. There are russes and arks at my store, and stuff with AV12 as well.

Secondly, I see AV10, and I think to myself "hmm, lascannons basically auto-pen that". 3x multilaser sentinels most likely put down 2 HP of damage, same for the autocannon, both with a tiny chance of doing something serious with penetration. Meanwhile, the lascannons only put down 1 HP, but they have a nearly half chance of destroying it outright.

Both 3x sentinel squads likely require two rounds of shooting to get the job done, on average, but the lascannons are more likely to wreck the vehicle in just one turn (important given how fragile they are), and to kill guys inside transports, and can threaten a wider range of targets, including tougher vehicles, and tough, non-vehicular things like monstrous creatures. If they're only going to get a couple of turns of shooting, I want them to have a maximum impact.

Plus, what would I really need multilasers or autocannons for? Seems like anything they can do, I'm already doing pretty well with lascannon spam.


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





Well, multilasers or autocannons are better than lascannons against all infantry. But in terms of things that you would actually want to use Sentinels against, multilasers and autocannons are much better than lascannons against Scarab swarms or Imperial Guard heavy weapon squads. In my area, those are much more common than Ghost Arks or Leman Russes are.

Of course, I believe Sentinels in general are a very suboptimal choice compared to the Vendetta, but so it goes.
   
Made in us
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes






New Hampshire

I like the narration style batrep.

WAAAGH!!!

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

Thanks! They're more interesting to read as well. I've been going back to my 4th edition battle reports to pick up more lost details about Melchoir and his past and found myself basically skimming them. The pictures and the words have a lot of duplicative overlap, which makes it tough to bother reading the words at all. Without reading words, though, I'm not really reading the battle reports, merely looking at pictures and then reading the wrap-ups at the end.

While my older style reports were tedious exercises in data collection, I've already been going back and re-reading some of this series' reports.

Kingsley wrote:Well, multilasers or autocannons are better than lascannons against all infantry. But in terms of things that you would actually want to use Sentinels against, multilasers and autocannons are much better than lascannons against Scarab swarms or Imperial Guard heavy weapon squads. In my area, those are much more common than Ghost Arks or Leman Russes are.

Lascannons are better against MEq and TEq, which is a pretty broad swath of infantry. Furthermore, multilasers and autocannons aren't great anti-infantry weapons wither.

Then, of course, in my case you have the fact that anti-infantry is already covered, what with the 105 infantry models, 26 of which have Ap3 small arms.

Kingsley wrote:Of course, I believe Sentinels in general are a very suboptimal choice compared to the Vendetta, but so it goes.

So, this is the other thing I'm experimenting with with regard to sentinels. As far as looking at only killing stuff, a 3x sentinel squad isn't that much worse than a vendetta, especially when you consider that I'm likely shooting at side, rather than front armor.

The question is one of if there is a use for sentinels over vendettas. I lose AV, the ability to only get hit on 6's, and the transport capacity, but I gain twice the hull points and the ability to use cover. The question is if the fact that they're ground units, and can thus do things like score on scouring games, and can get into close combat with stuff covers the gap.

I think it might, but don't really know how. Thus the experiment.


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





 Ailaros wrote:
Kingsley wrote:Well, multilasers or autocannons are better than lascannons against all infantry. But in terms of things that you would actually want to use Sentinels against, multilasers and autocannons are much better than lascannons against Scarab swarms or Imperial Guard heavy weapon squads. In my area, those are much more common than Ghost Arks or Leman Russes are.

Lascannons are better against MEq and TEq, which is a pretty broad swath of infantry. Furthermore, multilasers and autocannons aren't great anti-infantry weapons wither.


The math disagrees, I think:

BS3 Multilaser vs. T4 3+: 3/2 hits, 15/12 wounds, 15/36 (5/12) failed saves
BS3 Lascannon vs. T4 3+: 1/2 hits, 5/12 wounds.

So the multilaser is nominally equal to the lascannon against Marines. In practice, though, it's better, since there is a fair chance that one's target will have cover-- failing that, rolling three dice is more reliable and has more potential than rolling one die. Against Terminators:

BS3 Multilaser vs. T4 2+/5++: 3/2 hits, 15/12 wounds, 15/72 (5/24) failed saves
BS3 Lascannon vs. T4 2+/5++: 1/2 hits, 5/12 wounds, 10/36 (5/18) failed saves

So the multilaser is 25% worse than the lascannon against Terminators. This sounds really good for the lascannon until you realize:

BS3 Multilaser vs. T4 2+/3++: 3/2 hits, 15/12 wounds, 15/72 (5/24) failed saves
BS3 Lascannon vs. T4 2+/3++: 1/2 hits, 5/12 wounds, 5/36 failed saves

Also, 4+ cover saves (often available thanks to ruins) put the multilaser equal to the lascannon.

Ailaros wrote:Then, of course, in my case you have the fact that anti-infantry is already covered, what with the 105 infantry models, 26 of which have Ap3 small arms.


In my experience, anti-infantry is never "covered."

Ailaros wrote:
Kingsley wrote:Of course, I believe Sentinels in general are a very suboptimal choice compared to the Vendetta, but so it goes.

So, this is the other thing I'm experimenting with with regard to sentinels. As far as looking at only killing stuff, a 3x sentinel squad isn't that much worse than a vendetta, especially when you consider that I'm likely shooting at side, rather than front armor.

The question is one of if there is a use for sentinels over vendettas. I lose AV, the ability to only get hit on 6's, and the transport capacity, but I gain twice the hull points and the ability to use cover. The question is if the fact that they're ground units, and can thus do things like score on scouring games, and can get into close combat with stuff covers the gap.

I think it might, but don't really know how. Thus the experiment.


The Sentinels-- if you can keep them alive-- can be expected to do more damage and more reliable damage than the Vendetta. That said, it's a big "if," and Vendettas are so disruptive that I think they're more than worth it. In 5th edition, when Vendettas were much easier to kill and Sentinels actually fared fairly well in close combat against many targets, Sentinels were still difficult to justify. Nowadays I definitely wouldn't bother.
   
Made in ba
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Greater Manchester, UK

That's some interesting mathhammer there Kingsley, and Ailaros I get your thinking with the mobile HWS now. Keep experimentin', we'll see if your opinion changes based on experience rather than debate - I remember the months you spent hating on Autocannons, the only thing that changes your mind is practical knowledge it seems!

And something I forgot to say, I really liked the narrative style in this game in particular. So many games and batreps feel disconnected from a wider battlefront, and I for one can't imagine guard operating only on that 6x4 plot, or any 40k battle for that matter. It's usually a snapshot of something greater, in my imagination at least, and although I know you've tried to give a sense of some greater front in previous narrations, this time it *really* worked. So, I'm not sure what you did differently - perhaps the element of them being out in front of a grand offensive made more narrative sense to me for how the game played than in previous efforts.

Maybe the next time you're going for more of a standalone feel, roaming behind enemy lines etc, drop some hints of the march and its formation? Maybe that won't work at all but anyway, you did good this time.

Regards,
Cap'n R.

Run a whole lot of wfrp and other rpg's, play The Woods and Kill Team, gather and look mournfully at imperial guard knowing I'll never finish enough to use them on the tabletop  
   
Made in us
Bounding Assault Marine




Layton, Utah

YES YES YES!

Hopefully one day i'll have an army! 
   
Made in us
Leaping Dog Warrior






I think lascannons on the sentinels are just fine. If you were running a single sentinel, I'd suggest running it with an autocannon and a hunter-killer missile, but, since you have three, at least one lascannon shot should hit, and thanks to it's high strength, do something.

I like the narration style as well, and may attempt one as soon as I get the chance to play a game.

MRRF 300pts
Adeptus Custodes: 2250pts 
   
Made in jp
Proud Triarch Praetorian





Your writing style would make Douglas Adams smile.
Well, maybe not so much smile, as smirk conciliatorily while feigning interest.
Terry Pratchett would have at least given the bit about the shoe a good smirking, even if it was just to humor you in that way all established veterans feel is their duty, to inspire fledgling wordslingers who might wilt without a glorious sun to bask in the rays of.
(the bit with the titties, though, I'm sure we can all agree would get full marks from both authors).

 
   
Made in us
Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA

Great report! Man, seems like you end up having to play relic a lot. Yikes. :(

Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
 
   
 
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