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I had a rules debate with an opponent in a game I played recently and wanted to see how other people were playing it. I looked seven pages back and couldn't find anything. When a drop pod comes down it is immobilized. My opponent argued that because this is a damage result the pod loses a hull point. I argued that the only mention of loss of hull points is under the heading of glancing and penetrating hits, neither of which happened to the pod. We played that it did not lose the point, as there was really no mention of losing a hull point outside of glancing or penetrating hits. Did we play it right?

AFAIK the immobile result is a seperate issue from hull point loss. Hull points are only lost when a vehicle suffers a glancing or penetrating hit IIRC.

A pen will cause a hull point loss AND a roll on the table after all.

In the case of the drop pod i'd say it doesn't lose a HP just for doing what it's intended to do.

Yeah if you look at the Drop Pod entry, it has the Special Rule Immobile, it doesn't suffer an immobilized hit. It may count as a model that has suffered the result for all intents and purposes, but it hasn't actually suffered one. So no, it doesn't lose a hull point/

Eldercaveman wrote:
Yeah if you look at the Drop Pod entry, it has the Special Rule Immobile, it doesn't suffer an immobilized hit. It may count as a model that has suffered the result for all intents and purposes, but it hasn't actually suffered one. So no, it doesn't lose a hull point/

SM FAQ:
Q: Do Drop Pods count as immobilised the moment they touch down? Also, are any immobilised hits on them counted for weapon destroyed etc? (p69)
A. Yes

So they counts as having suffered Immobilised result, which according to BRB FAQ includes loss of Hull point. Note that your interpretation that "counts as having suffered" is somehow different than actually having suffered is wrong, and if you apply it consistently will break the whole game.

It's not the immobile result that takes the hull point, it's the penetrating hit, if it was to receive another immobile result then it would lose a hull point for two immobile results.

Ascalm already pointed it out. Suffering anything on the damage table does not take a hull point. It is a glancing or penetrating hit takes the hull point. Was a glancing or penetrating hit inflicted? No, so no loss of a hull point. This is supported but dangerous terrain tests, which immobilizes the vehicle but otherwise does not take a hull point "unless you are already immobilized which is another scenario" Drop pods come in with their full compliment of hull points.

Only TFG would say a drop pod loses a hull point when it lands.

Backlash wrote:
Ascalm already pointed it out. Suffering anything on the damage table does not take a hull point. It is a glancing or penetrating hit takes the hull point. Was a glancing or penetrating hit inflicted? No, so no loss of a hull point. This is supported but dangerous terrain tests, which immobilizes the vehicle but otherwise does not take a hull point "unless you are already immobilized which is another scenario" Drop pods come in with their full compliment of hull points.

Thats actually incorrect.

BRB FAQ, 2nd Page: Page 71 – Vehicles, Difficult and Dangerous Terrain.
Change the final sentence to “A vehicle that fails a Dangerous Terrain test immediately suffers an Immobilised result from the Vehicle Damage table, including losing one Hull Point”.

Just because a vehicle that fails a dangerous terrain check looses a hull point doesn't follow that the vehicles that count as immobilised looses a hull point.

Similarly, if there are still abilities out there that cause a vehicle to be shaken or stunned for a turn then by your logic you can use them to strip hull points off of vehicles without any permission as these are usually only results of the damage chart.

 edbradders wrote:
Only TFG would say a drop pod loses a hull point when it lands.

That's not a productive addition to the discussion.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Just because a vehicle that fails a dangerous terrain check looses a hull point doesn't follow that the vehicles that count as immobilised looses a hull point.

Similarly, if there are still abilities out there that cause a vehicle to be shaken or stunned for a turn then by your logic you can use them to strip hull points off of vehicles without any permission as these are usually only results of the damage chart.

The Dangerous Terrain FAQ shows that the hull point loss is included with the Immobilization result. Meaning that unless stated otherwise, you cannot suffer an Immobilization without losing a hull point.
Do Drop Pods state otherwise?

Eldercaveman wrote:
It's not the immobile result that takes the hull point, it's the penetrating hit, if it was to receive another immobile result then it would lose a hull point for two immobile results.

This is correct. No matter HOW you look at it. A vehicle can only suffer from an immobilization and lose a hull point if you rolled on the damage chart. Period. Since you dont roll on the VDC when dropping in, you do not lose a hull point. It only mentions being immobile so that there isnt confusion about weather it can move or not

 KingCracker wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
It's not the immobile result that takes the hull point, it's the penetrating hit, if it was to receive another immobile result then it would lose a hull point for two immobile results.

This is correct. No matter HOW you look at it. A vehicle can only suffer from an immobilization and lose a hull point if you rolled on the damage chart. Period. Since you dont roll on the VDC when dropping in, you do not lose a hull point. It only mentions being immobile so that there isnt confusion about weather it can move or not

Only if you ignore the Dangerous Terrain FAQ posted in this thread.

 KingCracker wrote:
This is correct. No matter HOW you look at it. A vehicle can only suffer from an immobilization and lose a hull point if you rolled on the damage chart. Period. Since you dont roll on the VDC when dropping in, you do not lose a hull point. It only mentions being immobile so that there isnt confusion about weather it can move or not

Please read the FAQ before making unfounded arguments like this. I've included it here and underlined the relevant portion:

Page 71 – Vehicles, Difficult and Dangerous Terrain. Change the final sentence to “A vehicle that fails a Dangerous Terrain test immediately suffers an Immobilised result from
the Vehicle Damage table, including losing one Hull Point”.

Note that this FAQ explicitly states that your argument is wrong. Vehicle can will lose hull point from being Immobilized, even if they did not rell on the damage chart. Period.
Edit: In fact, that FAQ states that suffering Immobilised result always includes losing one Hull Point.

So if you had something like the sabre platforms (yea there are now different stats but still) that have the same immobile rule as drop pods but only have ONE hull point, you would say they are instantly destroyed?

Will try and find a up to date example. Do you acutally play it as such Luide?

Drop Pods? Before FAQ I said they would not lose HP. After FAQ, it sure looks like they do lose HP the moment they drop.

But I have no issues with house-rules. In fact, there are quite few I prefer to use instead of RAW:
1) Use character T and WS in challenge instead of Majority
2) Wounds from scattered blast markers can be allocated to models outside LOS.
3) All abilities that are supposed to allow wounding models out of LOS may allocate wounds to models out of LOS, instead of doing nothing.

There are obviously others, those were just the first ones to come in mind.

and if there existed immobile model with single HP, I obviously wouldn't count it destroyed immediately after deployment in normal game.

But it is extremely important to know what the actual rules is and not claim something is RAW when it is not.
Everyone in our gaming group agrees that "Majority T and WS in challenges" is the actual rule. We also agree that it is obviously oversight, like FMC's not losing Hard to Hit while grounded pre-FAQ was.

Can't believe that your opponent was this deuchy. Does the Pod have a means of motive force? Can it move? That is why it is immobile, it lacks wheels, treads, anti-grav, what have you.

I suggest you ask if when your opponents wheels are removed form his car if the body/chasis is any less damaged. The answer obviously is no, it just can't move anymore.

Luide wrote:


Page 71 – Vehicles, Difficult and Dangerous Terrain. Change the final sentence to “A vehicle that fails a Dangerous Terrain test immediately suffers an Immobilised result from
the Vehicle Damage table, including losing one Hull Point”.

Note that this FAQ explicitly states that your argument is wrong. Vehicle can will lose hull point from being Immobilized, even if they did not rell on the damage chart. Period.
Edit: In fact, that FAQ states that suffering Immobilised result always includes losing one Hull Point.

Actually, it says that if it "fails a Dangerous Terrain test..."

A drop pod deploying would only take a dangerous terrain test if it landed in dangerous terrain.

Sorry, but I find your reading of this to be wrong. The immobilized drop pod would not take a hull point. Until a FAQ explicitly states this, I wouldn't enforce this on my opponent's drop pods.

 kronk wrote:
Actually, it says that if it "fails a Dangerous Terrain test..."

A drop pod deploying would only take a dangerous terrain test if it landed in dangerous terrain.

I'd have to agree on this. Where Dangerous Terrain tests are concerned GW has also FAQd it so vehicles with an Invulnerable save get to use it to avoid the damage result. To me that makes it seem GW considers the result of failing a Dangerous Terrain test as a glancing/penetrating hit but with a set damage result. It's not Immobilized that causes loss of HP, it's an actual hit that you can save against.

Drop Pods just start the game immobile. They never failed any test, they never even got one.

The immoblized result isn't from a damage roll, or a test, it just starts the game immobilized. No hull point is lost.

The faq doesn't say that the result of an immobilisation automatically loses a hull point. It says that in A SPECIFIC CASE you recieve the result including a docked hull point.
Not that immobilisation takes a hull point away in every case.

RAW vs RAI I don't see RAW saying that anything that is immobilised looses a hull point.

Luide wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:
This is correct. No matter HOW you look at it. A vehicle can only suffer from an immobilization and lose a hull point if you rolled on the damage chart. Period. Since you dont roll on the VDC when dropping in, you do not lose a hull point. It only mentions being immobile so that there isnt confusion about weather it can move or not

Please read the FAQ before making unfounded arguments like this. I've included it here and underlined the relevant portion:

Page 71 – Vehicles, Difficult and Dangerous Terrain. Change the final sentence to “A vehicle that fails a Dangerous Terrain test immediately suffers an Immobilised result from
the Vehicle Damage table, including losing one Hull Point”.

Note that this FAQ explicitly states that your argument is wrong. Vehicle can will lose hull point from being Immobilized, even if they did not rell on the damage chart. Period.
Edit: In fact, that FAQ states that suffering Immobilised result always includes losing one Hull Point.

What it states is that when Immobilized through failing a D/D test you lose a hull point. Extending that to a non-damage inflicted immobilized, say from not having any movement, is not included in the FAQ.

Homer

Spetulhu wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Actually, it says that if it "fails a Dangerous Terrain test..."

A drop pod deploying would only take a dangerous terrain test if it landed in dangerous terrain.

I'd have to agree on this. Where Dangerous Terrain tests are concerned GW has also FAQd it so vehicles with an Invulnerable save get to use it to avoid the damage result. To me that makes it seem GW considers the result of failing a Dangerous Terrain test as a glancing/penetrating hit but with a set damage result. It's not Immobilized that causes loss of HP, it's an actual hit that you can save against.

Drop Pods just start the game immobile. They never failed any test, they never even got one.

juraigamer wrote:The immoblized result isn't from a damage roll, or a test, it just starts the game immobilized. No hull point is lost.

For starters a drop pod does not start the game immobilized. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to put it anywhere on the board during your movement phase. It becomes immobilized as a result of landing on the board.

Sorry guys some rules in 6th edition suck. You can choose to remain blind to them or adapt like everyone else is. It loses a hull point as anytime a vehicle becomes immobilized it loses a hull point.

You only lose Hull Points when you take a Glance or a Penetrating hit. Neither of which the Drop Pod suffers. It simply becomes immobilized.

 Grey Templar wrote:
You only lose Hull Points when you take a Glance or a Penetrating hit. Neither of which the Drop Pod suffers. It simply becomes immobilized.

Have you had the fun time of failing a dangerous terrain test with a vehicle in 6th edition? You are neither glanced or penetrated... but what happens?

 Grey Templar wrote:
You only lose Hull Points when you take a Glance or a Penetrating hit. Neither of which the Drop Pod suffers. It simply becomes immobilized.

Check your FAQs, or even this thread where it has been posted a number of times, as you are 100% wrong on this.

It does state under the glancing and pen that you lose a hull point, (as well as failing dangerous terrain, which by how I read it does take 2 HP's off a drop pod). Immobile says the drop pod is treated as having the immobilsed result that is found on the table. If it was meant to lose a HP it would say it suffers a penerating hit and is automatically a 5 on the damage chart which it doesnt. It says treat it as having a 5.

Yes the usual way to get a result on the chart is to remove a hull point but as we are being told what result to use this is NOT a usual way.

Ok, I'll amend that.

You only lose a Hull Point when Glanced, Penned, or you fail a DT roll. None of which the Drop Pod suffers.

Yet in order to be treated as having suffered an immobilised result, it must also be treated add having lost a hull point.

Why? The two are not connected. The damage result of Immobilized doesn't have lose a Hull Point connected to it, thats connected to the Penetrating hit.