Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

A couple questions. First, with the Banner of Devastation do the boltguns keep rapid fire? Also can I fast blessing or maldictions out of land raiders?

Standard of Devastation : Yes. Nothing states it is removed, just an additional bonus if within 6" of the standard (applicable to the full range of the boltgun).

*** EDIT *** (of course I could be wrong)

If that is the case, would it fire eight shots within half the weapons max range (doubling the shots) or would it jus give me one extra shot for a total of five?

Razakil wrote:
If that is the case, would it fire eight shots within half the weapons max range (doubling the shots) or would it jus give me one extra shot for a total of five?

Neither, as it will be fired as a Salvo 2/4 weapon or a rapid fire weapon.

Did the OP mean *cast* blessings? If so, no.

You can pick between firing as Salvo or a Rapid Fire weapon. There isn't ever a reason to use Rapid Fire when you have the Salvo that I can see so you'll always use the Salvo profile if you qualify.

 Grey Templar wrote:
You can pick between firing as Salvo or a Rapid Fire weapon. There isn't ever a reason to use Rapid Fire when you have the Salvo that I can see so you'll always use the Salvo profile if you qualify.

Are you sure you can choose? It dosnt say you MAY fire as a Salvo, it says you treat them as salvo. Also, salvo can only fire half of its range if you move, so rapid fire would come in handy if you have to move.

EDIT:
You can only cast spells on the unit thats in the LR or on the LR itself.

Razakil wrote:
A couple questions. First, with the Banner of Devastation do the boltguns keep rapid fire? Also can I fast blessing or maldictions out of land raiders?

No, re-read the text
No, you can only cast powers on the unit you are embarked with and (I think) the LR itself

 Texanity wrote:
Are you sure you can choose? It dosnt say you MAY fire as a Salvo, it says you treat them as salvo.

This is correct, you don't get the choice, any boltguns within range ARE Salvo weapons full stop. It doesn't say anything about creating a new profile for the weapon, nor does it use any wording like "may" or "choose to". Page 66 if you want to check.

 Texanity wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
You can pick between firing as Salvo or a Rapid Fire weapon. There isn't ever a reason to use Rapid Fire when you have the Salvo that I can see so you'll always use the Salvo profile if you qualify.

Are you sure you can choose? It dosnt say you MAY fire as a Salvo, it says you treat them as salvo. Also, salvo can only fire half of its range if you move, so rapid fire would come in handy if you have to move.

EDIT:
You can only cast spells on the unit thats in the LR or on the LR itself.

Its worth noting to the OP that Bikes are relentless and therefor even while moving, can fire 4 shots.

I am fairly certain that you can cast powers out of vehicles that have ports like Razorbacks, but not Land Raiders.

Moridan wrote:
I am fairly certain that you can cast powers out of vehicles that have ports like Razorbacks, but not Land Raiders.

You can only use the fire points of a transport for psychic shooting attacks. You are not allowed to use them for line of sight for blessings or maledictions.

And Razorbacks don't have firing points.

 Mandor wrote:

Moridan wrote:
I am fairly certain that you can cast powers out of vehicles that have ports like Razorbacks, but not Land Raiders.

You can only use the fire points of a transport for psychic shooting attacks. You are not allowed to use them for line of sight for blessings or maledictions.

I hate not having my books at work.

So you can shoot out of fire points, but you cant see out of them to cast a blessing on a friendly vehicle next door? hmm

 Mandor wrote:

Moridan wrote:
I am fairly certain that you can cast powers out of vehicles that have ports like Razorbacks, but not Land Raiders.

You can only use the fire points of a transport for psychic shooting attacks. You are not allowed to use them for line of sight for blessings or maledictions.

Line of sight has nothing to do with it. Even powers that don't require line of sight can't be used on targets that are not embarked upon or the embarked vehicle.

 Texanity wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
You can pick between firing as Salvo or a Rapid Fire weapon. There isn't ever a reason to use Rapid Fire when you have the Salvo that I can see so you'll always use the Salvo profile if you qualify.

Are you sure you can choose? It dosnt say you MAY fire as a Salvo, it says you treat them as salvo. Also, salvo can only fire half of its range if you move, so rapid fire would come in handy if you have to move.

EDIT:
You can only cast spells on the unit thats in the LR or on the LR itself.

Meh, wasn't sure about the exact wording. Should have clarified.

Either way, the Salvo profile is always going to be better.

 Super Ready wrote:

 Texanity wrote:
Are you sure you can choose? It dosnt say you MAY fire as a Salvo, it says you treat them as salvo.

This is correct, you don't get the choice, any boltguns within range ARE Salvo weapons full stop. It doesn't say anything about creating a new profile for the weapon, nor does it use any wording like "may" or "choose to". Page 66 if you want to check.

So it says that they are no longer Rapid Fire?

Why cant the Boltgun have two types?

Psycannons are Heavy4/ Assault2, they have two types, so we know having two types is possible.

Purely an academic argument as there would never be a reason to not use the Salvo profile.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Purely an academic argument as there would never be a reason to not use the Salvo profile.

Unless the firing model moves and the target is 23 inches away.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:

 Texanity wrote:
Are you sure you can choose? It dosnt say you MAY fire as a Salvo, it says you treat them as salvo.

This is correct, you don't get the choice, any boltguns within range ARE Salvo weapons full stop. It doesn't say anything about creating a new profile for the weapon, nor does it use any wording like "may" or "choose to". Page 66 if you want to check.

So it says that they are no longer Rapid Fire?

Why cant the Boltgun have two types?

Psycannons are Heavy4/ Assault2, they have two types, so we know having two types is possible.

It doesn't have two types because there's nothing saying it has two types.
It's Rapid Fire. The Banner says it is now Salvo.
Nothing about keeping Rapid Fire or giving you an option.

But it doesn't say it loses Rapid Fire, which it must say for the weapon to lose it.

 Grey Templar wrote:
But it doesn't say it loses Rapid Fire, which it must say for the weapon to lose it.

That's not true.

The rule says that they "treat their boltguns as Salvo 2/4 weapons"
There's no allowance to treat them as Rapid Fire.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
But it doesn't say it loses Rapid Fire, which it must say for the weapon to lose it.

That's not true.

The rule says that they "treat their boltguns as Salvo 2/4 weapons"
There's no allowance to treat them as Rapid Fire.

They are rapid fire, and we treat them as salvo.

Where does it say a weapon can not have 2 types?

we know having two types is possible because Psycannons have 2 types.

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
But it doesn't say it loses Rapid Fire, which it must say for the weapon to lose it.

That's not true.

The rule says that they "treat their boltguns as Salvo 2/4 weapons"
There's no allowance to treat them as Rapid Fire.

They are rapid fire, and we treat them as salvo.

Where does it say a weapon can not have 2 types?

we know having two types is possible because Psycannons have 2 types.

The rulebook doesn't state what you can't do, only what you can. The psycannon they specifically tell us it has two types, ie, they give a two-type profile.

That is not the case here, all boltguns within a certain range are treated as salvo 2/4. If you're in that range, your boltgun is salvo 2/4. You no longer have the original profile to choose.

Target wrote:
The rulebook doesn't state what you can't do, only what you can.

Really? it is a permissive ruleset

The psycannon they specifically tell us it has two types, ie, they give a two-type profile.

That is not the case here, all boltguns within a certain range are treated as salvo 2/4. If you're in that range, your boltgun is salvo 2/4. You no longer have the original profile to choose.

Boltguns have the Type Rapid Fire, the banner says to treat them as Salvo2/4, It does not say that Rapid Fire is removed.

Permissive ruleset tells us that Rapid Fire only goes away if the rules say it goes away. The Banner does not say that rapid Fire is removed, so it is not.

 DeathReaper wrote:

Target wrote:
The rulebook doesn't state what you can't do, only what you can.

Really? it is a permissive ruleset

The psycannon they specifically tell us it has two types, ie, they give a two-type profile.

That is not the case here, all boltguns within a certain range are treated as salvo 2/4. If you're in that range, your boltgun is salvo 2/4. You no longer have the original profile to choose.

Boltguns have the Type Rapid Fire, the banner says to treat them as Salvo2/4, It does not say that Rapid Fire is removed.

Permissive ruleset tells us that Rapid Fire only goes away if the rules say it goes away. The Banner does not say that rapid Fire is removed, so it is not.

If you attempt to use Rapid Fire you are not treating the boltgun as a Salvo 2/4 weapon.
Therefore you're breaking a rule.

You are treating the boltgun as a Salvo 2/4 weapon, but it has rapid fire, so you chose to use Rapid fire Type instead of Salvo 2/4 Type.

 DeathReaper wrote:
You are treating the boltgun as a Salvo 2/4 weapon, but it has rapid fire, so you chose to use Rapid fire Type instead of Salvo 2/4 Type.

How can you treat it as a Salvo 2/4 weapon if you're using Rapid Fire?

You'd have to treat it as a Salvo 2/4/Rapid Fire weapon (using the Psycannon as an example). The Banner does not give you permission to do that.

Because they are treated as Salvo2/4, and the base profile is Rapid Fire, and as nothing removes Rapid Fire from the profile, they Bolters retain the Rapid Fire Type.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Because they are treated as Salvo2/4, and the base profile is Rapid Fire, and as nothing removes Rapid Fire from the profile, they Bolters retain the Rapid Fire Type.

And again - if you're using Rapid Fire you are absolutely not treating the weapon as Salvo 2/4.
You're treating the weapon as Rapid Fire/Salvo 2/4.

Does the Banner give you permission to treat the weapon as Rapid Fire/Salvo 2/4?

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Because they are treated as Salvo2/4, and the base profile is Rapid Fire, and as nothing removes Rapid Fire from the profile, they Bolters retain the Rapid Fire Type.

And again - if you're using Rapid Fire you are absolutely not treating the weapon as Salvo 2/4.
You're treating the weapon as Rapid Fire/Salvo 2/4.

Does the Banner give you permission to treat the weapon as Rapid Fire/Salvo 2/4?

I'm gonna have to go with rigeld2 on this one.