Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Is there any way that models can embark back into a Night Scythe? I can't seem to find a way since you can't disembark or embark into zooming flyers unless specified (Invasion Beams allow disembarkation) and Night Scythes can't hover.

The NS can only zoom, so no. There was a FAQ entry that allowed re-embarking, but it's no longer there.

They don't need the FAQ entry, the codex entry explicitly allows them to re-embark.

 DanielBeaver wrote:
They don't need the FAQ entry, the codex entry explicitly allows them to re-embark.

Where does it state that you are allowed to embark on a zooming flyer?

/e: are you referring to the example?

I'll check the codex when I get home from work, but I'm pretty sure that the Night Scythe's codex entry explicitly allows them to embark if they are in base contact - the FAQ from last edition just clarified that.

Off the top of my head it allows them to disembark, but not embark from the entry in the Codex. The old FAQ allowed them to embark back on the flyer.

You are correct in saying that an old FAQ allowed embarking on a Night Scythe. This FAQ, however, has been changed as it was created before Flyers were introduced to 40k. In the most recent FAQ, you can see that there is no rule change allowing that. And as tallguy already pointed out, the codex only gives explicit info on how to disembark from a NS.

 DanielBeaver wrote:
I'm pretty sure that the Night Scythe's codex entry explicitly allows them to embark if they are in base contact

The Codex also explicitly says the Night Scythe is a Fast Skimmer.
So any mention of embarking/disembarking is already outdated.

Personally I'd stick with the previous FAQ on the situation if they've forgotten to add it to the current. Not exactly RaW but makes the game work

No, it doesn't. If you use the old FAQ, you are clearly breaking the rules.

The old FAQ was written back when the NS was still a Skimmer and therefore, you could always (dis)embark. After 6th and the Flyer rules kicked in, the information was removed as Flyer rules explicitely disallow embarking on a zooming Flyer - and the NS can only zoom. The codex talks about Access Points and where they are, but since you zoom, you can't embark.

No, the previous FAQ was after it had been changed into a Flyer (about 2-3 versions if FAQ after in fact).

If clarified how to use the Invasion beam to embark while Zooming.

Does it not clover/clear this up in "Death from the Skies" ?

That's still valid... or at least more up to date than the necron codex....

.. although I have no idea how this impacts with regards to the ork flyers ...?

The new Ork codex is more up to date than DFTS.
It's only a week old

yes, what I was refering to was I have no idea how or if the ork flyer rues had changed since then either..


thinking about it did the Vendetta rules -- transport capacity -- change from DFTS and their new book ...


...

there is nothing about re-embarking in the iCodex, which has all the FAQs incorporated into it.

Hmmm going to check it right now. Hopefully is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Checked DitS and it says nothing about embarking, just that the base is used as an Access Point.

RAW, therefore, you may not re-embark in the NS.

Just read the codex the night sythes section under access points tells you how to embark on it,

ChapertMasterRagnaValick wrote:
Just read the codex the night sythes section under access points tells you how to embark on it,

Which doesn't help when you're not allowed to because the Flyer is Zooming. BRB explicitly disallows embark/disembark from Zooming Flyers. The page was amended to let them disembark (Invasion Beams! special rule overrides the restriction), but Invasion Beams doesn't say it lets you embark. There was a 6e FAQ listing (as a FAQ, not errata or amendment) that bizarrely stated you could get back in, but that's gone.

Additionally, under the standard rules, a transport is limited to 6" of movement if passengers embark/disembark. Invasion Beams gets around the disembark, but not the embark. If a Flyer is forced to move less than 18", it crashes.
So... even if you interpreted the words in the Night Scythe section as allowing for it to embark, the thing would still crash on the turn that you did. GG.

It just seems weird that something that was perfectly legal in 6th edition (via the FAQ) is now illegal, despite nothing having changed in the flyer rules.

A codex over roles the rule book and the FAQ over roles the codex it really is that simple

 Sigvatr wrote:

The old FAQ was written back when the NS was still a Skimmer and therefore, you could always (dis)embark. After 6th and the Flyer rules kicked in, the information was removed as Flyer rules explicitely disallow embarking on a zooming Flyer - and the NS can only zoom. The codex talks about Access Points and where they are, but since you zoom, you can't embark.

No. The Night Scythe became a full fleged flier in 6th edition and any 6th edition FAQ dealing with the Night Scythe is written with that fact in mind. The FAQ allows the models to embark by using the base in lieu of an access point.

While I know that FAQs can (and do) change rules, I would like to point out that since there has been no wording changes, and what allowed them to embark in the first place was an FAQ, and not an Errata/Amendment, as far as I'm concerned, this:

Q: Is there any way to embark back onto a Night Scythe?
A: Yes – follow the rules for Embarking on page 78, treating
the Night Scythe’s base as its Access Point. Note that this is
possible despite the Night Scythe being a Zooming Flyer.

is still applicable. Even if it is not RAW.

It's part of the old FAQ and it is no longer part of the current one - thus it has zero bearing on any rules issue. Unless I am mistaken and I did not find it and / or look at an older FAQ version than the one you took it from.

I took it from the last of the 6th ed FAQs for the Necron codex. And as pointed out using it may not be RAW, but as far as I'm concerned (iow HIWPI) it is still applicable.

Hm it's a difficult one to judge. As a Necron player, I'd happily do it. As a judge / TO, I don't think I could (can) as there's a lack of RAW backing it up - in the contrary, the opposite is correct RAW.

Tough one.

based on this argument, where is the access point located on the NS so that they can Disembark/Embark?

So what does it say in the Necron Codex?

Page 51 Necron Codex "Access points: Treat the wormhole Gateway on the underside of the Night Scythe as its Access Point. For the purpose of embarking or disembarking from a Night Scythe, measure to and from the model's base. For example, models wishing to embark within a Night Scythe can do so if at the end of their movement, all the models of the unit are within 2in of the Night Scythe base."

Note that no where in the Necron Codex is there a Special Rule called "Invasion Beams"

Page 61 DFTS "Invasion Beams: A unit that begins it's Movement Phase embarked upon a Night Scythe can disembark before or after the vehicle has moved (including pivoting on the spot, ETC.) so long as the Vehicle has not moved more than 36in. in the Night Scythe moves more than 24in in the same turn then the Disembarking unit can only fire Snap Shots.

Now two things.

First, the FAQ adds the Invasion Beams Rule to the Night Scythe while not removing nor telling us to ignore the Access points Rule.

Second, the number of Access points is changed 1 (The Models Base ) in the FAQ.

Thus a Zooming Night Scythe has permission, due to both the Access Points and Invasion beams Special Rules to Embark a unit while zooming.

This fits with the Clarification that was given in the older FAQ regarding this subject, and nothing has changed about the Night Scythe rules which leads me to believe one cannot embark upon a zooming Night Scythe.

Access points isn't the issue, keep in mind that they are also used for disembarking. The problem is the Night Scythe only being able to zoom and zooming, in general, disallowing any embarking.

models wishing to embark within a Night Scythe can do so if at the end of their movement, all the models of the unit are within 2in of the Night Scythe base."

Codex overrides main rule book. If models wish to embark they may given the above stipulation.

RAW, RAI, how reasonable people should play it, all wrapped into one nice tidy bundle.

barontuman wrote:
Codex overrides main rule book. If models wish to embark they may given the above stipulation.

So its a fast skimmer too then?

barontuman wrote:
models wishing to embark within a Night Scythe can do so if at the end of their movement, all the models of the unit are within 2in of the Night Scythe base."

Codex overrides main rule book. If models wish to embark they may given the above stipulation.

RAW, RAI, how reasonable people should play it, all wrapped into one nice tidy bundle.

True, but continue with the RAW. Plane moves 6", crashes, unit goes into reserves.

CrownAxe, the vehicle type was changed by the recent faq. Yet the part about embarkation was not. So barontuman has a point.