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Now that you can put any imperium unit in a drop pod thanks to space wolves, I was wondering if LotD could get in those drop pods and arrive via drop pod assault?

I will lean towards Negative as it would be possible to state that the Transport is arriving via Deep-Strike, not the Unit within.
However, my brain is currently off so there might be something I am over-looking.

I'm with Jinx for the time being...
If I recall correctly, Legion must arrive via Deep Strike (I could be misremembering), and I'm fairly certain the unit inside is not deep striking, it is coming in from reserve inside the Drop Pod.
I could be wrong, though.
I'll have a longer think about this, as this is very interesting.

Legion of the Damned must enter the play using Deep Strike. The first wave of Drop Pods enters the game using Drop Pod Assault, which is not the same thing (since it happens on turn 1). They could, however, come in on the second wave of Drop Pods... though I'm not sure what advantage that would confer.

Drop Pods that use the Drop Pod Assault rules, are still entering play using the Deep Strike rules.

I checked the ds rules, and nothing in them, that I could find, states that an embarked unit also counts as deep striking

nosferatu1001 wrote:
I checked the ds rules, and nothing in them, that I could find, states that an embarked unit also counts as deep striking

Would this rule cover it:

"In the Movement phase during which they arrive, Deep Striking units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a Deep Striking Transport vehicle if they are in one." (Special rules chapter, Deep Strike section).

I believe it would.

So, if this *does* count as them deep striking, would they also get to re-roll the scatter (as per their rules) and also use the Drop Pod's ability...?

Only if they are scattering to begin with, and they're not.

BRB page 162, paragraph 'Deep Strike and Transport'
"Units do not confer the Deep Strike special rule onto a Transport vehicle they are embarked inside. A Transport vehicle with Deep Strike may Deep Strike regardless of whether it's passengers have Deep Strike or not."

The whole wording of the rules, especially this section, leads me to conclude that the vehicle (or drop pod) Deep Strikes, not the units inside. Any special rules that apply to an embarked unit, even in regards to Deep Strike, does not apply to the transport.

IMO YMMV

 RottenEmu wrote:
BRB page 162, paragraph 'Deep Strike and Transport'
"Units do not confer the Deep Strike special rule onto a Transport vehicle they are embarked inside. A Transport vehicle with Deep Strike may Deep Strike regardless of whether it's passengers have Deep Strike or not."

The whole wording of the rules, especially this section, leads me to conclude that the vehicle (or drop pod) Deep Strikes, not the units inside. Any special rules that apply to an embarked unit, even in regards to Deep Strike, does not apply to the transport.

IMO YMMV

But it doesn't say that transport special rules don't apply to the unit inside, which is what is being looked for. It just says units can't make transports deep-strike if they don't have the rule.

It also has literally no bearing as to whether the unit inside counts as deep-striking, just that rules don't confer between the infantry and the transport.

If the unit inside is deep striking, how do you position them around the initial Model as per the Deep Striking instructions?

JinxDragon wrote:
If the unit inside is deep striking, how do you position them around the initial Model as per the Deep Striking instructions?

IDK but darkreaper showed that the book says that the unit counts as deep striking if it arrives via deep striking transport

 CrownAxe wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:
If the unit inside is deep striking, how do you position them around the initial Model as per the Deep Striking instructions?

IDK but darkreaper showed that the book says that the unit counts as deep striking if it arrives via deep striking transport

It does not outright say it, but it does imply it.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:
If the unit inside is deep striking, how do you position them around the initial Model as per the Deep Striking instructions?

IDK but darkreaper showed that the book says that the unit counts as deep striking if it arrives via deep striking transport

It does not outright say it, but it does imply it.

Please tell me it doesnt, id love to assault from my drop pods

Is implying enough though?
Without specific instructions to get around this problem, either informing us how the Unit inside goes about Deep Striking or giving an Exception so they arrive without having to go through the process, we encounter the situation where the Unit inside must follow the default 'Arriving by Deep Strike' Rules which clearly cause all sorts of problems.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:
If the unit inside is deep striking, how do you position them around the initial Model as per the Deep Striking instructions?

IDK but darkreaper showed that the book says that the unit counts as deep striking if it arrives via deep striking transport

It does not outright say it, but it does imply it.

Please tell me it doesnt, id love to assault from my drop pods

Since you're arriving from reserve when a drop pod comes in, there's no way that can happen.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:
If the unit inside is deep striking, how do you position them around the initial Model as per the Deep Striking instructions?

IDK but darkreaper showed that the book says that the unit counts as deep striking if it arrives via deep striking transport

It does not outright say it, but it does imply it.

Please tell me it doesnt, id love to assault from my drop pods

The rule was quoted earlier:

After Deep Striking a unit cannot move further, except to disembark.

Or something like that. Since that would only apply to units embarked in a Deep Striking transport (eg Drop Pods), the rules imply that the unit counts as DSing.

Of course, even then, Drop Pod Assault (and Reserves) specifically forbid assaulting out of a Drop Pod (Lucius-pattern being the exception).

 CrownAxe wrote:
Now that you can put any imperium unit in a drop pod thanks to space wolves, I was wondering if LotD could get in those drop pods and arrive via drop pod assault?

I am not a SW player but how does it state in their codex that any imperium unit can be placed in a drop pod?

Johnnytorrance wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
Now that you can put any imperium unit in a drop pod thanks to space wolves, I was wondering if LotD could get in those drop pods and arrive via drop pod assault?

I am not a SW player but how does it state in their codex that any imperium unit can be placed in a drop pod?

GW seems to be steering towards Dedicated Transports also being a FOC slot choice (usually FA). Since they are FA choice, you could take 3 of them per CAD (or just field nothing but DPs in Unbound, so everyone can use one).

Never mind, brain is still a little off from talking to 100+ people in the course of a day.
There is no restriction against getting into Battle Brother transports anymore, even ones being deployed into Reserve.

Still curious how they are getting around the whole 'Arriving from Deep Strike' Rules if they are also Arriving via Deep Strike....

Johnnytorrance wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
Now that you can put any imperium unit in a drop pod thanks to space wolves, I was wondering if LotD could get in those drop pods and arrive via drop pod assault?

I am not a SW player but how does it state in their codex that any imperium unit can be placed in a drop pod?

Every dedicated transport now has a place on the FA slot - rhino, razorback, drop pod. Meaning they can be selected as a non-dedicated transport, and cna therefore have allied battle brother units embarked in them

Holy bajesus! That means you can now drop Grav cannon centurions from a drop pod!

Johnnytorrance wrote:
Holy bajesus! That means you can now drop Grav cannon centurions from a drop pod!

Mother of god Some Deathwind launchers for good measure.. DAT Alpha

My understanding is that a unit which is deployed embarked in a transport is also in the "area of deployment" for that transport. Thus a transport deployed in "deep strike reserve" has units that will be arriving by deep strike as well. To my knowledge, this absolutely fulfills the need for LoD to arrive from deep strike. Great combo!

For those who don't agree: would we say that a unit embarked in an assault vehicle coming from reserve could charge because they did not arrive by the reserve rule? I think we can all agree that in this case the embarked models are also coming from reserve...and thus could not charge.

xAndurilx,
Notice the Rules for Combined Reserve Units states; you must specify if any units in Reserve are embarked upon... so it is really difficult to state that the Unit embarked is not also in Reserves itself. This comes after a section informing us how to Prepare Units for Reserve, which exists to grant us an Exception to the Restriction that we deploy all our Units at the start of the game. If the Unit wasn't put into Reserve at some point in the process it would be forced to Deploy prior to Turn 1, within the Deployment Zone, with the rest of the non-reserved Army.
One of these two things alone make it possible to state: The Unit inside a Deep striking Transport may not have Arrived by Deep Strike, but it must have been in some sort of Reserve state to begin with.

The difficulty for Deep Striking within a Transport is in obeying the Arrive via Deep Strike sequence, the requirement to place a model then scatter them and so forth, and how it is not possible to do so with an embarked Unit.

Drop Pod Assault: Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in deep strike reserve.

So we are clear that the embarked models are actually in deep strike reserve.

Now LoD does not state that they have to enter play and scatter etc. It says they must arrive by deep strike: which they do by being embarked on the pod.

Granted is this fluffy? Probably not, but it works by RAW.

Which would be fine if we had a Rule stating that Units inside a Transport can ignore the Arriving Via Deep Strike sequence. Even one that simply states they only Count as having arrived after they Disembark, when it is too late for the sequence to take effect, would be nice. For without those instructions any Unit Arriving via Deep Strike is required to follow the sequence, and this is simply not possible with the Embarked Unit without causing all sorts of problems. The only correct 'Rule as Written' interpretation with the concept that hte Unit inside is also Arriving Via Deep Strike would be to scatter them separate to the Transport, until someone finds that one Rule allowing the Unit to Deep Strike simply by Disembarking from a Transport....

We do have rules: drop pod rules trumps normal deep strike placement.
Both the drop pod and the embarked unit arrive by deep strike as they are in deep strike reserve.

I think we might be over complicating this:
-LoD must arrive by deep strike
-LoD arrives by deep strike because both the pod and LoD are in deep strike reserve
-drop pod rules take presidency over normal deep strike placement

It would only trump if there was a conflict, for example if some Rule stating that an Embarked Unit is Arriving via Deep Strike simply by being Embarked on any Transport then we would have the needed conflict. In such a situation there would be a conflict because resolving one Rule would violate the wording in another as it is impossible to both follow a Rule stating we Must use the Deep Striking sequence as well as a Rule stating they Must remain in the Transport, making the action illegal no matter which Rule is followed. In situations where multiple Rules are still capable of being followed, then we do not have a conflict and we are required to obey all Rules involved. Therefore a Rule informing us that they are placed into Deep Strike Reserves does not create such a conflict, nothing is preventing them from utilizing the Arrival Via Deep Strike sequence or accessing a different Rule allowing them to be placed on the Table.

The only real thing making this stance 'ridiculous' is that resolving the Rule exactly as Written would place the Embarked Unit somewhere other then inside the Transport, which makes no damn sense.

It is a sore point with me because the wording is quite bad, even though I can see what the writers likely intended their refusal to simply state it out-right is frustrating. The only reason it is currently 'working' at the table is because we have common sense conclusion that the Unit inside the Transport are not meant to be teleporting to some other location on the board, ensuring they will arrive inside the Transport. It is simply because we have all universally applied a House Rule to the situation, the good old 'ignore the damn break and move on' that we are required to evoke way too much in this game. This is not a good situation to be in and the simple concept that the Unit inside is not Arriving via Deep Striking, it simply is Disembarking from a Transport that did, side steps the problem entirely.