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Hi guys, I know this is my first post so please bear with me;

Concerning the new Grey Knights Nemesis Strike Force Detachment special rule

Can a Grey Knights Independent Character join a unit of Space Marine Terminators to roll for deep strike on turn 1?

Can a Space Marine Independent Character join a unit of Grey Knights to roll for deep strike turn 1?

Can it by used by a Grey Knights unit embarked in a Space Wolves Drop Pod to arrive turn 1?
(ie. 3 pods total, pods 1 and 2 arrive via Drop Pod Assault, can pod 3 with an embarked unit of Grey Knight Terminators then roll to arrive via deep strike on turn 1)

Which of these models, if any, can then Run and Shoot as per RoT?

Can a Grey Knights unit arriving by deep strike through other means still Run and Shoot?
(ie. Purifiers arriving via Drop Pod Assault > Disembark > Cleansing Flame > Run > Shoot)

Rules for reference:

Rites of Teleportation:
Instead of making Reserve Rolls from the start of your turn
two, you can make Reserve Rolls for any unit in this Detachment that is placed in Deep
Strike Reserve from the start of your turn one. These units will arrive from Deep Strike
Reserve on turn one on the roll of 3+. In addition, all units from this Detachment can
both Run and Shoot, in any order, in the same turn that they arrive from Deep Strike
Reserve.

Combined Reserve Units:
During deployment, when deciding which units are kept as Reserves, you must specify if
any of the Independent Characters in Reserve are joining a unit, in which case they must
arrive together. Similarly, you must specify if any units in Reserve are embarked upon
any Transport vehicles in Reserve, in which case they will arrive together. In either case,
when making a Reserve Roll (see below) for a combined unit, roll a single dice for the
unit and/or its Independent Character/Transport vehicle.

Battle Brothers
Units from the same army that are Battle Brothers treat each other as ‘friendly units’ for
all rules purposes. This means, for example, that units:
• Can benefit from the Warlord Trait of a Warlord that is a Battle Brother.
• Can be joined by an Independent Character that is a Battle Brother.
• Are counted as being friendly units for the targeting of Battle Brothers’ psychic
powers, abilities and so on.
• Can use special abilities to repair Hull Points, Immobilised or Weapon Destroyed
results on Battle Brothers’ vehicles.
• Can use modifiers and re-rolls that apply to Reserve Rolls that are granted by a Battle
Brother’s model.
• Can embark on each other’s Transport vehicles.

Cheers guys, much appreciated =)

In order to Deep Strike, all models in the unit must have the Deep Strike special rule.

Rites of teleportation is a command benefit:

Instead of making Reserve Rolls from the start of your turn two, you can make Reserve Rolls for any unit in this Detachment that is placed in Deep Strike Reserve from the start of your turn one.

So no, all the models would need to have this rule and that one is only for the guys in the detachment. Same for the 3 pods. The first 2 would through drop pod assault, but the third one would lack rites of teleportation, so I don't think it can. Scout and outflank specifically mention that it transfers to the DT, this doesn't... So I don't think that's a move you can pull.



The purifier in drop pod one is a more curious case. Technically, the rules don't state that it has to be teleportation:

In addition, all units from this Detachment can both Run and Shoot, in any order, in the same turn that they arrive from Deep Strike Reserve.

So I guess they can disembark, cast, shoot, then run technically.

Reckling wrote:
Can a Grey Knights Independent Character join a unit of Space Marine Terminators to roll for deep strike on turn 1?

No. IC means the GK is a member of the SM unit for "all rules purposes", so it is a unit from the SM detatchment, not a unit from the GKNSF detatchment.

Reckling wrote:
Can a Space Marine Independent Character join a unit of Grey Knights to roll for deep strike turn 1?

Yes, the opposite as above, as long as that character has the Deep Strike rule (see Ghaz's answer).

Reckling wrote:
Can it by used by a Grey Knights unit embarked in a Space Wolves Drop Pod to arrive turn 1?
(ie. 3 pods total, pods 1 and 2 arrive via Drop Pod Assault, can pod 3 with an embarked unit of Grey Knight Terminators then roll to arrive via deep strike on turn 1)

The Combined Reserve rules could be interpretted such that you pick either the pod or the unit to roll for (the "and/or" part of the last sentence), so you could pick the GKs and have the roll affect the pod.

Reckling wrote:
Which of these models, if any, can then Run and Shoot as per RoT?

Only units that are part of the GKNSF, so in the above examples; the GK unit with SM char, and the GK unit in pod, but not the SM unit or GK character, and not the Pod (obviously).

Reckling wrote:
Can a Grey Knights unit arriving by deep strike through other means still Run and Shoot?
(ie. Purifiers arriving via Drop Pod Assault > Disembark > Cleansing Flame > Run > Shoot)

Still some debate about whether arriving in a deep-striking vehicle counts the unit inside as deep-striking. I'm sure someone can link to the other threads.

All of the above are my interpretations of the rule, and may well be wrong.

I wouldn't be happy if someone tried to us the "Rites of Teleportation" on a Drop Pod.

The intention if the rule is pretty clear. Clue is in the name.

(That's a HIWPI comment incase that wasn't clear)

I would love for the answer to 1 to be yes, but alas no.

I think quanar has the measure of it. Bit dubious about the drop pods.. if the drop pod has deep strike, and the unit doesn't... probably gonna say no to that one, without a specific exception.

Elmir wrote:Rites of teleportation is a command benefit:

Instead of making Reserve Rolls from the start of your turn two, you can make Reserve Rolls for any unit in this Detachment that is placed in Deep Strike Reserve from the start of your turn one.

So no, all the models would need to have this rule and that one is only for the guys in the detachment. Same for the 3 pods. The first 2 would through drop pod assault, but the third one would lack rites of teleportation, so I don't think it can. Scout and outflank specifically mention that it transfers to the DT, this doesn't... So I don't think that's a move you can pull.

Combined Reserve Units:
During deployment, when deciding which units are kept as Reserves, you must specify if
any of the Independent Characters in Reserve are joining a unit, in which case they must
arrive together. Similarly, you must specify if any units in Reserve are embarked upon
any Transport vehicles in Reserve, in which case they will arrive together. In either case,
when making a Reserve Roll (see below) for a combined unit, roll a single dice for the
unit and/or its Independent Character/Transport vehicle.

Doesn't the last sentence tell me I can roll for the Independent Character, who is in the NSF, and he then drags in the squad he is attached to?

@Quanar
On your first point, my understanding is a model from a detachment is always from that detachment irrespective of circumstance?

Reckling wrote:
@Quanar
On your first point, my understanding is a model from a detachment is always from that detachment irrespective of circumstance?

Indeed, it doesn't magically alter which detatchment he is from, but the rule asks about units, not models, when attached, the IC ceases to be a "unit" of his own, and counts as part of the other unit "for all rules purposes" (gosh, I hate that sentence from a rules-writing perspective, personal quibble!).

But, GW have never really clarified mixed units - things like Preferred Enemy (Something) are a bit of a rules grey-area for mixed units.

 Quanar wrote:

Reckling wrote:
@Quanar
On your first point, my understanding is a model from a detachment is always from that detachment irrespective of circumstance?

Indeed, it doesn't magically alter which detatchment he is from, but the rule asks about units, not models, when attached, the IC ceases to be a "unit" of his own, and counts as part of the other unit "for all rules purposes" (gosh, I hate that sentence from a rules-writing perspective, personal quibble!).

But, GW have never really clarified mixed units - things like Preferred Enemy (Something) are a bit of a rules grey-area for mixed units.

Right, so the GK IC is still GK, which means he still has the RoT rule, why can't It then be used to make his Reserve roll on turn 1? The rules for Reserves offer a provision for rolling for entry on turn 2, the RoT simply brings this forward right? That kinda brings me to the conclusion that the attached IC can make his reserve roll, and if successful, bring his unit onto the board with him.

Specifically interested in this part:
In either case, when making a Reserve Roll (see below) for a combined unit, roll a single dice for the
unit and/or its Independent Character/Transport vehicle.

Reckling wrote:

Elmir wrote:Rites of teleportation is a command benefit:

Instead of making Reserve Rolls from the start of your turn two, you can make Reserve Rolls for any unit in this Detachment that is placed in Deep Strike Reserve from the start of your turn one.

So no, all the models would need to have this rule and that one is only for the guys in the detachment. Same for the 3 pods. The first 2 would through drop pod assault, but the third one would lack rites of teleportation, so I don't think it can. Scout and outflank specifically mention that it transfers to the DT, this doesn't... So I don't think that's a move you can pull.

Combined Reserve Units:
During deployment, when deciding which units are kept as Reserves, you must specify if
any of the Independent Characters in Reserve are joining a unit, in which case they must
arrive together. Similarly, you must specify if any units in Reserve are embarked upon
any Transport vehicles in Reserve, in which case they will arrive together. In either case,
when making a Reserve Roll (see below) for a combined unit, roll a single dice for the
unit and/or its Independent Character/Transport vehicle.

Doesn't the last sentence tell me I can roll for the Independent Character, who is in the NSF, and he then drags in the squad he is attached to?

Yes and No. The last sentence does indeed say that you roll a single dice but that dice would be rolled on Turn 2 because of the first sentence: "they must arrive together". The independent character is part of the Unit for all rules purposes, and the unit can only arrive Turn 2.

The same applies for the SM Character in the Grey Knights Squad. The unit can arrive Turn 1 because the Character is part of that unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Reckling wrote:

Specifically interested in this part:
In either case, when making a Reserve Roll (see below) for a combined unit, roll a single dice for the
unit and/or its Independent Character/Transport vehicle.

This part works like this:
A)"roll a single dice for the unit and its Independent Character AND Transport vehicle."
B)"roll a single dice for the unit and its Independent Character". OR "roll a single dice for the unit and its Transport vehicle."

the and/or refers to Independent Character/Transport vehicle.

I know this could be clearer, but it is never:
"roll a single dice for the unit or its Independent Character." - you pick which one you roll for. This is wrong, the rules state you only roll once for the entire unit. The independent Character rules tell you what you need to know about "for all rules and purposes"

Quanar,
I am with you all the way about that sentence, all the friggen way.
Worse is I have seen it in two or three other places and every time I want to beat my head against a wall....

 Quanar wrote:

Reckling wrote:
Can a Grey Knights Independent Character join a unit of Space Marine Terminators to roll for deep strike on turn 1?

No. IC means the GK is a member of the SM unit for "all rules purposes", so it is a unit from the SM detatchment, not a unit from the GKNSF detatchment.

Reckling wrote:
Can a Space Marine Independent Character join a unit of Grey Knights to roll for deep strike turn 1?

Yes, the opposite as above, as long as that character has the Deep Strike rule (see Ghaz's answer).

Reckling wrote:
Can it by used by a Grey Knights unit embarked in a Space Wolves Drop Pod to arrive turn 1?
(ie. 3 pods total, pods 1 and 2 arrive via Drop Pod Assault, can pod 3 with an embarked unit of Grey Knight Terminators then roll to arrive via deep strike on turn 1)

The Combined Reserve rules could be interpretted such that you pick either the pod or the unit to roll for (the "and/or" part of the last sentence), so you could pick the GKs and have the roll affect the pod.

Reckling wrote:
Which of these models, if any, can then Run and Shoot as per RoT?

Only units that are part of the GKNSF, so in the above examples; the GK unit with SM char, and the GK unit in pod, but not the SM unit or GK character, and not the Pod (obviously).

Reckling wrote:
Can a Grey Knights unit arriving by deep strike through other means still Run and Shoot?
(ie. Purifiers arriving via Drop Pod Assault > Disembark > Cleansing Flame > Run > Shoot)

Still some debate about whether arriving in a deep-striking vehicle counts the unit inside as deep-striking. I'm sure someone can link to the other threads.

All of the above are my interpretations of the rule, and may well be wrong.

I'm with you on the majority of this, but I'm still not seeing how a SM IC can join the GKNSF detachment and DS turn 1. While I see your point that the SM IC becomes part of the UNIT for all rules purposes, the IC still is not from the GKNSF DETACHMENT. The difference between unit and detachment seems to be the breaking point in which I don't think we can attach other ICs to our GK for Rites of Teleportation.

 Homeskillet wrote:
I'm with you on the majority of this, but I'm still not seeing how a SM IC can join the GKNSF detachment and DS turn 1. While I see your point that the SM IC becomes part of the UNIT for all rules purposes, the IC still is not from the GKNSF DETACHMENT. The difference between unit and detachment seems to be the breaking point in which I don't think we can attach other ICs to our GK for Rites of Teleportation.

Whilst attached, the IC ceases to be it's own unit. If it did not, I could target the IC with shooting despite being joined to a unit (choose a target - "single enemy unit"). Therefore the IC is part of the unit - the unit has the Rites special rule as per the detachment benefits ("any unit in this detachment"). IC means that he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes. Is Rites a "rules purpose"?

 Quanar wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:
I'm with you on the majority of this, but I'm still not seeing how a SM IC can join the GKNSF detachment and DS turn 1. While I see your point that the SM IC becomes part of the UNIT for all rules purposes, the IC still is not from the GKNSF DETACHMENT. The difference between unit and detachment seems to be the breaking point in which I don't think we can attach other ICs to our GK for Rites of Teleportation.

Whilst attached, the IC ceases to be it's own unit. If it did not, I could target the IC with shooting despite being joined to a unit (choose a target - "single enemy unit"). Therefore the IC is part of the unit - the unit has the Rites special rule as per the detachment benefits ("any unit in this detachment"). IC means that he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes. Is Rites a "rules purpose"?

This is not me trying to be snide, just making a point, so bear with me. I get that the IC ceases to be a unit, and that he becomes one with the GK unit for all rules purposes. However, the NSF detachment rule states that ONLY units from the NSF DETACHMENT may use the Rites. If a SM IC joins the GK unit, is he no longer from the SM detachment, but now a part of the GK detachment? The answer is of course no, he is still from the SM DETACHMENT, but is now a GK UNIT.

Again, don't read the underlines and caps as me yelling at the top of my lungs at my computer, just trying to point out important wording that differs.

He's part of a unit from the NSF detachment. Unlike Deep Strike, which requires that every model have the special rule in order to use it, Rites just requires a unit from the detachment. The GK unit is a unit from that detachment, and the IC is a member for all rules purposes. It becomes a GK unit from NSF detachment with a single model from the SM Detachment.

That is my interpretation, you are welcome to yours.
I agree that it's probably not intended for this to happen, but since GW will never FAQ it, we're left with what we're given.

Does Rites of Teleportation state that all Models in the Unit must belong to the Gray Knight Faction before the Rule can be evoked?
Ah, sorry Quanar, I will go back to sitting on the side line while you make all this relevant points.

 Quanar wrote:
He's part of a unit from the NSF detachment. Unlike Deep Strike, which requires that every model have the special rule in order to use it, Rites just requires a unit from the detachment. The GK unit is a unit from that detachment, and the IC is a member for all rules purposes. It becomes a GK unit from NSF detachment with a single model from the SM Detachment.

That is my interpretation, you are welcome to yours.
I agree that it's probably not intended for this to happen, but since GW will never FAQ it, we're left with what we're given.

"it becomes a gk unit from NSF detachment" is where we differ on opinion, and is the basis for my thought that the IC can't use Rites. I don't think the IC gains "GK detachment" status when he joins a GK unit, although he DOES become a GK unit.

To sort of bolster the point, why wouldn't the writers have simply said "any GK unit" could use Rites, instead of going out of their way to state "units from that detachment"?

 Homeskillet wrote:

"it becomes a gk unit from NSF detachment" is where we differ on opinion, and is the basis for my thought that the IC can't use Rites. I don't think the IC gains "GK detachment" status when he joins a GK unit, although he DOES become a GK unit.

So if the GK unit ceases to be in the GK detachment when an IC joins it then what detachment is it in?

To sort of bolster the point, why wouldn't the writers have simply said "any GK unit" could use Rites, instead of going out of their way to state "units from that detachment"?

Because if it just said "any GK unit" then any GK unit from other detachments would get that command benefit (such as if you also took a CAD or a formation)

Home - you said it yourself, it is a GK unit now. And the rites rule asks about units.

You cannot, and indeed must not, consider the IC individually, as that would brak the IC rule

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:

"it becomes a gk unit from NSF detachment" is where we differ on opinion, and is the basis for my thought that the IC can't use Rites. I don't think the IC gains "GK detachment" status when he joins a GK unit, although he DOES become a GK unit.

So if the GK unit ceases to be in the GK detachment when an IC joins it then what detachment is it in?

I never said anyone ceased to be from a detachment, you're the only one apparently saying that. My point is that a unit's detachment NEVER changes, even if it's unit changes. the SM IC is always from the SM detachment, even if he joins a unit from another detachment. Since the SM IC isn't from the NSFD, he can't use Rites. I'm not sure how to put it more simply, other than:

unit ≠ detachment

If you can't agree with me on this, then we won't ever come to a consensus.

To sort of bolster the point, why wouldn't the writers have simply said "any GK unit" could use Rites, instead of going out of their way to state "units from that detachment"?

Because if it just said "any GK unit" then any GK unit from other detachments would get that command benefit (such as if you also took a CAD or a formation)

I never said anyone ceased to be from a detachment, you're the only one apparently saying that. My point is that a unit's detachment NEVER changes, even if it's unit changes. the SM IC is always from the SM detachment, even if he joins a unit from another detachment. Since the SM IC isn't from the NSFD, he can't use Rites. I'm not sure how to put it more simply, other than:

unit ≠ detachment

If you can't agree with me on this, then we won't ever come to a consensus.

Because if it just said "any GK unit" then any GK unit from other detachments would get that command benefit (such as if you also took a CAD or a formation)

So, the rules intend to only have GK units from this specific detachment utilize Rites of Teleportation then? That makes sense to me too.

 Quanar wrote:

Reckling wrote:
@Quanar
On your first point, my understanding is a model from a detachment is always from that detachment irrespective of circumstance?

Indeed, it doesn't magically alter which detatchment he is from, but the rule asks about units, not models, when attached, the IC ceases to be a "unit" of his own, and counts as part of the other unit "for all rules purposes" (gosh, I hate that sentence from a rules-writing perspective, personal quibble!).

But, GW have never really clarified mixed units - things like Preferred Enemy (Something) are a bit of a rules grey-area for mixed units.

the above is not a true statement, the IC does not count as a part of the unit for special rules unless the special rules specifically state they extend to all models in the unit, for example shrouded, for example hit and run.

Also as per the rules on detachments the IC does not count as a model from that detachment, and cannot change which detachment it is from.

in the case of teleportation rites, this is not the case.

the rule obviously only affects units from that detachment, and if a unit attached is from a different attachment, then its not from that detachment and will not gain the special rule.

blaktoof wrote:

 Quanar wrote:
when attached, the IC ceases to be a "unit" of his own, and counts as part of the other unit "for all rules purposes"

the above is not a true statement, the IC does not count as a part of the unit for special rules unless the special rules specifically state they extend to all models in the unit, for example shrouded, for example hit and run.

He is still part of the unit, but does not gain Special Rules unless specified.
Fleet - "A unit composed entirely of models with this rule..." - does not confer.
Stubborn - "a unit that contains at least one model with this special rule..." - does confer, and is the example used in the IC rules.
NSF detachment - "you can make Reserve Rolls for any unit in this Detachment that is placed in Deep Strike Reserve from the start of your turn one." - doesn't use either terminology.
I will agree that this part of the IC rules is the only rule mentioned in this thread so far I would consider as valid as a counter-argument.

blaktoof wrote:
Also as per the rules on detachments the IC does not count as a model from that detachment, and cannot change which detachment it is from.

Relevance and/or citation? Detachments makes no mention of IC and IC makes no mention of detachments.
The combined unit is a GK unit with attached SM model, not a GK unit with attached SM unit. Rites asks the question "Is this a unit purchased as part of the NSF detachment?", nothing more. The answer is either:
"Yes" as the IC counts as a member of the unit, or;
"Yes and also from the SM detachment".

Blaktoof - what detahcment is the UNIT from? The GK detachment.

Is the IC a member of that unit for ALL rules purposes? Yes.

IS THIS A RULES PURPOSE? Yes.

Proven, again.

Well, at the same time the unit can have as many special rules as it wants.... but the IC can not benefit or suffer the effects from them unless its specified as passing in the rule, or the unit rule is 'gained' by the unit after the IC has joined.

Does matter if its a unit rule, IC rules say IC does not have the unit rules, and can not benefit or suffer from effects of rules already applied (Regardless of it is says the 'unit' does XYZ). But agree this is pretty vague, I don't think they take much into account the different types of special rules, or what these can effect.

This Topic has come back to 6th Ed. Battle Brothers & Transports:

Most will agree that "for all rules purposes" means that the IC is pretty much a second sergeant in the Squad, and that he only ever keeps his status of being a different "Model" to the squad (for all USR that are "all model..."). He therefore looses any status of "unit".

Some however, (and i'm not sure i'm on this side but i do like it) think that certain "status" are superseding of any other rules. Such as "being an IC", "being a battle-brother", and now "of detachment X". Most rules call out "units" and not "models", but can the 3 example here really be ignored? He is still "an IC", "a battle-brother", and now "of detachment X". At the model level, maybe, but it's hard to come to terms with how"being a battle-brother" or "of detachment X" can simply be ignored.

Hopefully we've all had enough of those discussions, and can agree that the debate can wait 8th Edition or some ground-breaking FAQs

Well, we've all had a few days to mull this one over, I've certainly changed my mind on my initial interpretation. As a result of the discussions both in this thread and elsewhere, I will move forward under the following rationalization with confidence unless some as yet unheard argument comes forth. Thus..

Can a Grey Knights Independent Character join a unit of Space Marine Terminators to roll for deep strike on turn 1?
No, because as per Reserves > Combined Reserves, you roll 1 dice for the unit, not the IC, and as the unit is not part of the NSF, it does not have access to RoT.

Can a Space Marine Independent Character join a unit of Grey Knights to roll for deep strike turn 1?
Yes, because as per IC rules, the IC becomes part of the GK unit for all rules purposes, and as per Reserves > Combined Reserves you make a single roll for the Unit which brings both the unit and its IC.

Can it be used by a Grey Knights unit embarked in a Space Wolves Drop Pod to arrive turn 1?
Yes, because as per Reserves > Combined Reserve Units, you make a single roll for the Unit which brings in both the unit and its Transport vehicle.

Which of these models, if any, can then Run and Shoot as per RoT?
All models arriving via RoT can run and shoot.

Can a Grey Knights unit arriving by deep strike through other means still Run and Shoot?
Yes, as above.


Thanks everyone for your patience with this. If you disagree with my conclusions, that's fine, but unless there's a new argument I'll be running this until it is FAQ'd.
Cheers =)

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Blaktoof - what detahcment is the UNIT from? The GK detachment.

Is the IC a member of that unit for ALL rules purposes? Yes.

IS THIS A RULES PURPOSE? Yes.

Proven, again.

Allow me to join you in your cherry picking of which rules to discuss and which to ignore, and just like you we will ignore the entire.section on IC s and special rules which invalidates the rule you just stated.

Let's.focus on the detachment rules.

Let's say we have a.SM IC, who is our warlord.from a CAD. He joins a GK unit that has the special rule "rites of teleportation".

We claim "he's part of this unit for all rules purposes".

Nevermind that we just broke at least 2 RAW, the one on IC s and special rules, and the one on detachments....

Obviously the IC is not a unit from the NSF detachment, but let's break the rule that a unit can only ever be part of one detachment, and say he becomes a member of that detachment.

Now the CAD would be our primary detachment since our warlord.was from it. If the warlord is now a unit from the other detachment does our primary detachment change now? Is our warlord still a warlord, since he's no longer from the primary detachment? Does lose his command benefit of refilled warlord trait since that was from the CAD? Is our army now illegal because we have 0 ha from the CAD and 3 in the NSF?

.these are all rules purposess.

Btw absolutely RAW the answer is the IC is not a unit from the NSF detachment even if joined to a unit from it.

Blaktoof, may I ask you a question?

If I have a Space Marine Independent Character, from a Space Marine CAD, attached to a Grey Knights unit, from a Grey Knights CAD, which detachment is the combined unit from? Bearing in mind (as you mention) that a unit can only belong to one detachment, and that the IC plus unit is a single unit?

blaktoof wrote:


Let's say we have a.SM IC, who is our warlord.from a CAD. He joins a GK unit that has the special rule "rites of teleportation".

We claim "he's part of this unit for all rules purposes".

Nevermind that we just broke at least 2 RAW, the one on IC s and special rules, and the one on detachments....

Quote them. Before posting anything else, quote what rules you just broke.

Obviously the IC is not a unit from the NSF detachment, but let's break the rule that a unit can only ever be part of one detachment, and say he becomes a member of that detachment.

That's not what's being said, of course - perhaps you could argue against what people are saying instead of incorrect strawmen?

Btw absolutely RAW the answer is the IC is not a unit from the NSF detachment even if joined to a unit from it.

Correct, but irrelevant. He's a member of the unit he joined, and the joined unit is from the NSF detachment.

rigeld, I believe one of the rules he is referring to is "Unless otherwise specified, unit special rules are not conferred to an Independent Character, and vice versa."