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Seriously. I'm mostly just putting this here to link because I'm tired of typing it out on half the ork army lists I visit. Please don't use it because it sucks in comparison to the bog-standard CAD which is wonderful for us greenies given the prevalence and staying power of our boyz.

Ork Horde

The Good:
+ 3 HQ slots ((Don't let this squig-snake tempt you. You'll see...)
+ 9 Troop Slots (Does anyone actually need 9 troop slots this side of Apocalypse?)
+ Free Hammer of Wrath on big boyz mobs
+ Re-roll Warlord trait if using the Ork table.

The Bad:
+ To get said Hammer of Wrath, the unit must be above ten boyz on the charge (dubious at best)
+ You also have to roll 2D6 => 10 inches for your charge (even "dubious-er"
+ The Hammer of Wrath attacks are only performed by boyz who make it into Base Contact with an enemy model, and happens BEFORE pile in moves (see what I'm getting at here?)
+ Your Warlord does not get re-rolls on any of the Rulebook tables (wow, rude right? sometimes you'll want to roll on those tables depending on army comp and gametype)

The Ugly:
+ The Hammer of Wrath attacks are S3 AP-

If you don't feel kicked in the teef by now, let's go over the good ol' plain Jane vanilla bean Combined Arms Detachment:

The Good
+Re-Rollable Warlord traits on any table you want (including the Ork table!)

The Great
+Objective Secured on all of our Troops. This is god tier for orks. With decent rolls, a Nob all by his lonesome with a bosspole will hold his own forever (he also cant allocate wounds on himself for Breaking Heads rolls (aka the roll you want) so its like a free pass.) Also our troops can come in 30 man (or 300 man) near-fearless (or actually fearless) blobs, take 4+ armour, trucks that can go 24 inches a turn (which ALSO gain Objective Secured), and have access to cheap FNP and (semi)cheap 5++.

The Bad
+

... crickets...

The Ork Horde detachment is questionable at its best and literally useless at its worst (oh no, my boyz unit is at 9. oh no, I only rolled a 9 inch charge, oh no, my less-than-a-handful of S3 AP- hits did literally nothing).

The Combined Arms Detachment is great all the time. Re-rolling all Warlord traits basically guarantees getting the Strategic Trait you want if you take Thinking Cap (nets you 4 rolls, bro) if that's your jam. If you still have boyz, grots, or trucks on the board they steal objectives from anyone that isn't also ObSec, and if you don't have any (even lone) Boyz, grots (haha), or trucks on the field then something has gone horribly wrong and ObSec isn't gonna save you now.

But in a lot of circumstances, ObSec will win you games. Because not only can you make last minute Objective captures, but you can literally STEAL OBJECTIVES FROM THE OTHER GUY if he isn't sitting on it with his Tacs or Firewarriors or whatever (and orks will turn em to paste anyway). Worst case you contest the objective and neither of you gets points. But that's a pretty damn good "worst case scenario" if I say so myself.

The only drawback is you only have access to 2 HQ slots instead of 3. Well this is where you pack up your cares and throw them overboard because you're an ork dangit. Just take two Combined Arms Detachments. Sure, it costs you 4 troops, but really, any higher than 1k you really should have 4 or more, and you also end up with 4 HQ slots (which if my math is correct, is 1 more slot than the Horde detachment). And you can keep taking detachments like this forever.

That's just my two teef on the matter. Speak up if you object, I honestly would love to know if there is actually any use at all from this formation because the way I see it, its bad. So if you can redeem it, more power to ya.

I disagree! ;p
If i play a named character as Warlord with predefined trait, what do I care about rerolling Trait?
If I think "Toys before boys", what do I care about my 2 objectives-secured grots ? If the opponent wants them dead they will die.

I am not saying Ork detachment is better, but each detachment has its own distinctive advantage. The winner between "OS troops" versus "3 Hq" is essentially up to each Ork player and his playstyle.

(and by the way, the "bad" in CAD is 2 HQ only... ;-))

Grotz don't steal objectives. Either nobody pays attention to the objective they are sitting on, or they get removed as casualties.

Neither the hammer of wrath nor the objective secured really makes a big difference in many games, re-rolling the warlord trait is actually the biggest bonus you get from the CAD.

However, you missed the biggest bonus of the second CAD: You also get more of all your other slots, while the horde detachment only gives you a HQ slot and a bunch of useless troop slots.

The only time you should field a ork detachment is when you need the third HQ (a second pain boyz is a valid reason to pick one) and you don't have enough point to field a 35 grot units, which really shouldn't happen outside of small games. The other time is being in a tournament where the TO arbitrarily decided that you should only have one detachment. IMO having another unit with FNP beats objective secured any day.

If tournaments didn't nerf us by saying 1cad and 1ally or formation, I'd agree with you every time. Since that is the case though that extra HQ can help some lists. But in a game with friends, where the rule book is god and TO's don't exist, you're 100% right.

I agree, this detachment seems pretty pointless to me and seems to only be there to make fluffy lists even fluffier.

The useless bonuses are completely outweighed by Objective Secured.

It's a shame that a lot of tournaments are restricting the number of CAD's you can take as 7th edition and the 7th edition codex's are clearly geared towards multiple detachments.

Grots hold objectives? Uh, not if theyre being glanced at they wont.....even against Cultists my grots usually die in one swoop.

Theres something flawed about your HoW logic. For starters, its 10" or more on the roll before modifiers, NOT the actual distance charged. I get it quite often when i only needed 3-4 inches to begin with, allowing a wraparound for maxed HoW generation.
Yes, its S3 since nothing with stock S4 (except for the boss/painboy in said units with 10 or more) can or will be 10+ models. But, get this - FREE ATTACKS! I have killed multiple marines at I10 with this, easily making me win what would have been a technically bad fight for me (losing bout half my boyz or more before i could swing) into a virtually auto-win fight since now he only had a tiny handful to strike with.

Thats not the reason i take the ork detachment though. Its the 3rd HQ. Not having a warboss means you are going gun-line, and its not as important, but if you go assaulty you will have a warboss and painboy in at least one unit - well, wheres the mek? meks add Da Finkin' Kap which is awesome for any army for the cost, a KFF for wagons/walker lists, or a SAG which puts a lot of fear in people's hearts.

I have literally never, ever had objective secured come into play for either my armies. One of us is always dead, or the other wasnt a troop to begin with (usually me, as my boyz are rarely locked in combat with other troops due to sheer numbers)

But we can go double-CAD and remove that problem right? Wrong. Vast majority of players, not just tournaments, do not allow double-cad unless its a huge game. Some tournaments are banning the ork formation too, which is just outright unfair since we NEED that 3rd hq most of the time.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Grots hold objectives? Uh, not if theyre being glanced at they wont.....even against Cultists my grots usually die in one swoop.

Theres something flawed about your HoW logic. For starters, its 10" or more on the roll before modifiers, NOT the actual distance charged. I get it quite often when i only needed 3-4 inches to begin with, allowing a wraparound for maxed HoW generation.
Yes, its S3 since nothing with stock S4 (except for the boss/painboy in said units with 10 or more) can or will be 10+ models. But, get this - FREE ATTACKS! I have killed multiple marines at I10 with this, easily making me win what would have been a technically bad fight for me (losing bout half my boyz or more before i could swing) into a virtually auto-win fight since now he only had a tiny handful to strike with.

Thats not the reason i take the ork detachment though. Its the 3rd HQ. Not having a warboss means you are going gun-line, and its not as important, but if you go assaulty you will have a warboss and painboy in at least one unit - well, wheres the mek? meks add Da Finkin' Kap which is awesome for any army for the cost, a KFF for wagons/walker lists, or a SAG which puts a lot of fear in people's hearts.

I have literally never, ever had objective secured come into play for either my armies. One of us is always dead, or the other wasnt a troop to begin with (usually me, as my boyz are rarely locked in combat with other troops due to sheer numbers)

But we can go double-CAD and remove that problem right? Wrong. Vast majority of players, not just tournaments, do not allow double-cad unless its a huge game. Some tournaments are banning the ork formation too, which is just outright unfair since we NEED that 3rd hq most of the time.

I am well aware that the charge doesnt have to be 10 inches or more. I said in my post you have to roll ten or more as your charge range. Second, I at no point said grots are any good at holding objectives. Just that they have ObSec, and even though all grots are garbage, a grot with ObSec is the lesser of two evils.

Also, taking a Big Mek for Finkin' Kap doesnt work unless he's your warlord. And if he's your warlord, that means you can't waaagh unless you get the ork trait that lets you. And if you can't waaagh, why take 30 man boy units with bosses and painboyz?

Moving on, I have a hard time believing that ObSec hasn't ever come into play. I feel bad for your meta if you're denied so frequently the thrill of a close game with an opponent of equivalent skill. Having ObSec on a 30 boy, FNP unit with a Warboss and maybe even a Weird in there is amazing. I find ObSec to be very important, because then my truckboyz can swoop in on any non-troop unit that was holding an objective and assault them, and even if they dont wipe them out, if they're locked in combat I still get the point over him. Or having it on your own troops to prevent your opponent from doing it to you.

Not having access to multiple CADs at above 1000 points I would argue is borderline crippling for orks. The only circumstance the horde would be viable is if you need a third HQ because your meta plays the game wrong and only allows 1 FoC.

Where does it say Finkin' Kap has to be taken on your warlord? it simply says you can generate an additional trait from the Stragetic table.
It says "warlord traits" because theyre still called that, even if its not the warlord generating it. Otherwise how would you generate it at all, since anything else you call it wouldnt be connected to the BRB warlord traits, whether its on your warlord or not?

Never said it was frequent that i get locked in combat instea d of clearing the unit, just said if it happens at all its usually my elites or FA that didnt completely wipe a unit either from lack of attacks, bad dice, or facing something that can tank the damage im dishing.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Where does it say Finkin' Kap has to be taken on your warlord? it simply says you can generate an additional trait from the Stragetic table.
It says "warlord traits" because theyre still called that, even if its not the warlord generating it. Otherwise how would you generate it at all, since anything else you call it wouldnt be connected to the BRB warlord traits, whether its on your warlord or not?

Pretty sure it's got a superscript that says it can only be taken by your Warlord.

Well shut me down and call me a monkey's uncle, its one of those "oh by the way" comments at the bottom of the page where its costs are listed.

Lame.

If you want KFF meks + painboyz, Mogrok formation will help you out. That's only for relatively large games, though.

I agree that Horde detachment is somewhat lackluster out of games below 1k where all you got are this 3 squad and some ranged support. In this case FNP for an extra blob can probably outweight obsec. s3 HOW 10% of the time doesn't really matter.