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This topic is for statting out, and balancing out Space Marines for Forgehammer. The Marines as written are a "All-In-One" Codex, designed to consolidate as many Marine chapters, chamber militants, etc into a single omnibus.
Forgehammer Core Rules: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/666981.page
==Special Rules==
Spoiler:
And They Shall Know No Fear: For now, as in 7th ed rules. This may be modified accordingly.
Combat Squads: Space Marine squads that number 10 models may split up into two units of 5 each, at the start of the battle. These two units are Synchronized with each other, and can ride in the same transport at once.
Rites Of War: Although the vast majority of Chapters adhere to the doctrines laid forth by Gulliman, some Chapters are less dogmatic than others. Likewise, the less-established (and arguably less 'respectable' ) Chapters may be more willing to eschew tradition in their effort to make a name form themselves. At army creation, you must choose several Chapter Traits for your army as follows:
-Select a Major Codex Deviation, two Minor Codex Deviations, or a Renowned Legacy.
-Select a Major Codex Deviation, two Minor Codex Deviations, or a Renowned Legacy.
-Select a Geneseed Mutation or a Renowned Legacy.
-Select a Chapter Controversy or a Renowned Legacy.
-Freebie: Select a Major Codex Deviation, two Minor Codex Deviations, Geneseed Mutation, Chapter Controversy, or Renowned Legacy.
=Wargear=
Auspex: If one or more models with an Auspex are within 8" of an enemy unit, that enemy unit cannot benefit from Shrouded.
Purity Seals: If all models in a unit are equipped with Purity Seals, the unit rolls an additional die and discards the highest when making Leadership Checks.
==Chapter Traits==
Spoiler:
=Minor Deviations=
Take The Fight To The Enemy: Take The Fight To The Enemy may only be taken once, and the form chosen must be specified at army creation. Each form of Take The Fight To The Enemy lets you select a class Deep Striking units; up to half of your units of that type may elect to be held in Reserve. Write down which squads are being held in reserve, as well as which turn they arrive on (turn 1 or turn 2). They automatically arrive from Reserve on that turn, and the scatter may be rerolled.
-Take The Fight To The Enemy [Descent of Angels]: Units with Jump Packs. (Notable Chapters: Raven Guard, Blood Angels, Doom Eagles)
-Take The Fight To The Enemy [Steel Rain]: Units with Drop Pods. (Notable Chapters: Blood Ravens)
-Take The Fight To The Enemy [Teleportarium Strike]: Units in Terminator Armour. (Notable Chapters: Dark Angels, Imperial Fists, Grey Knights)
Combined Office [X,Y]: Select any two Space Marine Offices. Neither of them may be taken independently, but both are taken together. (Notable Chapters: Space Wolves, Silver Skulls, Iron Hands, White Scars)
Equals Among the First: The following units entries are merged:
Veteran Tactical Squad, Veteran Assault Squad
Terminator Tactical Squad, Terminator Assault Squad
Tactical Dreadnought, Assault Dreadnought.
Any merged unit may use any options and unit specializations of both unit entries.
(Notable Chapters: Dark Angels, Grey Knights, Space Wolves).
No Retreat!: When the game would end due to random Game Length, a player whose chapter has No Retreat may reroll to see if the game continues (Notable Chapters: Imperial Fists, Salamanders).
Superior Firepower: Tactical Squads substitute any option to take a Special Weapon for an option to take a Heavy Weapon, at the normal listed cost. Mutually exclusive with Street Sweepers (Notable Chapters: Star Phantoms)
Street Sweepers: Tactical Squads substitute any option to take a Heavy Weapon for an option to take a Special Weapon, at the normal listed cost. Mutually Exclusive with (Notable Chapter: Space Wolves)
Veteran Scouts: Any Scout Squad may be upgraded to Veteran Scouts for +8 points/model, making them an Elites choice; this grants them +2 Weapon Skill, +2 Ballistic Skill, +1 Leadership, and Purity Seals. The Scouts may take 2 Specials in addition to any other options they normally have; this *may* be combined with Armored Berserkers or Armored Neophytes; in this case, all Scout Squads *must* be take the Veteran Scouts upgrade. (Notable Chapters: Dark Angels and Space Wolves, ironically enough).
=Major Deviations=
Apothecary Sergeants: All Tactical and Assault Marine Sergeants are equipped with a Narthecium at +25 points. May not take Apothecary Heroes. This trait may not be taken alongside any Combined Office which affects Apothecaries. (Notable Chapters: Iron Snakes, Red Scorpions).
Armored Spearhead: Any Tactical or Assault Squad may take any transport-capable Land Raider as a dedicated transport at its listed cost; any unit that does this counts as a Super Unit. Chapter may not field Land Raiders as Heavy Support. (Notable Chapters: Aurora Marines, Black Templar, Blood Angels, Storm Wardens).
Armored Berserkers: May not take Scout Neophyte Squads or Scout Biker Squads. Rather, reduce the cost Assault and Bike Squads by 5 points per model; all models in the unit except the Sergeant are WS3/BS3, and gain +1 Rage. May not be taken alongside Trial By Fire. (Notable Chapter: Space Wolves).
Be Swift As The Wind: All Bikers get Move Through Cover and Scout. Bike Squads are Troops. Sternguard/Vanguard have access to Bikes at 5 points/model; this already takes their Well-Provisioned bonus into account. Attack Bikes are Heavy Support and get the full list of Heavy Weapons. May not take Scout Bikers (Notable Chapter: Dark Angels, White Scars).
Trial By Fire: The chapter may not take Scout Squads; rather, any Tactical Squad or Assault Squad without Jump Packs may add Scout Neophytes instead of Tactical Marines, up to the normal squad size limit. May not be taken alongside Armored Berserkers.(Notable Chapters: Black Templars, Iron Snakes)
=Geneseed Mutation=
Battle Trance: All non-vehicle Squads have Fast(2) and Battle Focus, but remove a non-character model at the start of each turn as they succumb to the trance. (Notable Chapter: Mantis Warriors)
Bestial: For every 5 models with Power Armor in a unit, 1 *must* replace all of its wargear except the Power Armor with a pair of Rending Claws. (Notable Chapters: Black Dragons, Space Wolves).
Black Rage: All models receive an automatic level of Rage. (Notable Chapters: Any Blood Angel Chapter).
Heavyweights: A Chapter with the Heavyweight Rule cannot take any Jump Packs or Land Speeders. All Marines receive +1 Toughness, -1 Initiative, and Slow&Purposeful. (Notable Chapters: Salamanders, Sons of Antaeus).
=Chapter Controversy=
Above Regulation: That this chapter is spotty with tracking its numbers is an understatement. Scout, Tactical, and Assault Squads may take up to an additional 10 models; in exchange, the Chapter loses the Combat Squads special rule. (Example Chapters: Astral Claws, Black Templar, Space Wolves).
Beastlords: The chapter is known for riding large monsters, be they giant wolves, carnosaurs, or otherwise. Any Lord or Hero may take a Monstrous Mount at +35 points, granting the model +1 Strength, Toughness, Wounds, and Attack, and changing the model's type to Cavalry. A unit of Vanguard Veterans may choose to take Monstrous Mounts as 10 points/model. A Monstrous Mount cannot be taken alongside a Jump Pack, Bike, or Terminator Armor. (Main example: Space Wolves)
Censured: This chapter has run afoul of its Battle Brothers and the High Lords of Terra for its excessive methods and callous disregard for the Imperial Charter; as such, they've taken to working with more unsavory allies. They may not take Imperial Operatives as mercenaries, but gain access to Scum & Renegades. (Notable Chapters: Astral Claws, Crimson Sabre Loyalists, Knights of Blood, Soul Drinkers)
Exorcism Rites: Proscribed Tech: This Chapter's willingness to use technology that is not derived from holy STCs is unsettling to say the least. This trait cannot be taken with the STC Access Renowned Legacy, due to obviously strained relations between the chapter in question and the AdMech.
-Proscribed Tech [Daemonic]: Fill in here.
-Proscribed Tech [Eldar]: Tactical Marines armed with Heavy Weapons are Relentless. All Frag Grenades and Frag Missiles are replaced with Plasma Missiles.
-Proscribed Tech [Tau]:
The Flesh Is Weak: Fill in the Details, but this chapter *really* loves its cybernetic augmentations. (Notable Chapters: Iron Hands)
=Renowned Legacies=
Abhor The Witch: All units receive Preferred Enemy (Psykers), and +1 Adamantium Will; the Chapter may not include any models with the Psyker USR. (Notable Chapter: Black Templar).
Bolter Drill: Every Bolt Weapon (including Bolt Pistols and Heavy Bolters) gains +1 Sustained Attack (1) (Notable Chapters: Crimson Fists, Imperial Fists)
Honor Thy Wargear: This chapter is known for its expertise with a particular class of weapon, from maintenance and artifice, to wielding them on the battlefield. Each time you select this trait, choose a specific category of weapon.
-Honor Thy Wargear [Flame]: Flamer Weapons gain +1 Strength. Models normally eligible to take a Plasma Pistol may instead opt for a Hand Flamer, and one Tactical per squad may substitute a Special or Heavy swap for a Heavy Flamer at +10 points. (Notable Chapters: Blood Angels, Salamanders).
-Honor Thy Wargear [Melta]: Melta Weapons gain +1 Strength. Models normally eligible to take a Plasma Pistol may instead opt for a Inferno Pistol, and one Tactical per squad may substitute a Special or Heavy swap for a Multimelta at +10 points. (Notable Chapters: Blood Angels, Salamanders).
-Honor Thy Wargear [Plasma]: Whenever a Plasma Weapon Gets Hot!, the result is discarded on a 3+ rather than a 4+. Any Marine eligible to take a Heavy Weapon may take a Plasma Cannon for +15 points. (Notable Chapter: Dark Angels)
See But Remain Unseen: Models in Power Armor have an additional level of Shrouded on the first turn they start the game, or arrive from reserves on foot. Mutually Exclusive with Take Pride in Your Colors. (Notable Chapters: Raptors, Raven Guard).
STC Access [Centurion Suits]: The Chapter has access to Centurion Suits
STC Access [Grav Weapons]: The Chapter has access to Grav Weapons.
Take Pride In Your Colors: Space Marine Standards have doubled effect. Mutually Exclusive with See But Remain Unseen.
==Army List==
Spoiler:
=Lords=
Venerable Dreadnought
Chapter Master
Master of the Forge
Master of Sanctity
Chief Librarian
=Heroes=
Librarian:
Librarian: WS 5, BS 5, S 4, T 4, W 3, I 5, Ld 9, Sv 3+, A 2
Wargear: Bolt Pistol, One-Handed Force Weapon (choose type at army creation), Power Armor, Frag&Krak Grenades
Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Psyker (Mastery Level 1)
Captain: WS 6, BS 6, S 4, T 4, W 4, I 6, Ld 9, Sv 3+, A 3
Wargear: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Power Armor, Frag & Krak Grenades
Drop Pod: 50 points
Unit Composition:
Wargear:
Specialist Loadouts:
Land Speeder Storm:
Unit Composition: 1 Land Speeder Storm
Wargear: Heavy Bolter, Cerebrus Assault Launcher
Special Rules:
Transport Capacity: 5 Models. May only transport models in Scout Armor.
Specialist Loadouts: Awakened Machine Spirit, Comm Jammers, Darkshroud.
=Troops=
Assault Squad: 75 points.
Space Marine: WS 4 BS 4 S 4 T 4 W 1 I 4 Ld 8 Sv 3+ A 1
Marine Sergeant: WS 4 BS 4 S 4 T 4 W 2 I 4 Ld 9 Sv 3+ A 2
Unit Composition: 4 Space Marines, 1 Marine Sergeant
Wargear: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Power Armor, Jump Pack, Frag Grenade & Krak Grenades
Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads
Specialist Loadouts: Purity Seals, Combat Shields, Demolition Charges
Options:
The Assault Squad may swap out its Jump Packs, in order to take a Dedicated Transport. The Dedicated Transport has a 5-point discount for every 5 models in the Assault Squad.
Tactical Squad: 75 points Space Marine: WS 4 BS 4 S 4 T 4 W 1 I 4 Ld 8 Sv 3+ A 1 Infantry
Marine Sergeant: WS 4 BS 4 S 4 T 4 W 2 I 4 Ld 9 Sv 3+ A 2 Infantry (Character)
Unit Composition: 4 Space Marines, 1 Marine Sergeant
Wargear: Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Power Armor, Frag & Krak Grenades
Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads
Specialist Loadouts: Purity Seals, Auxilary Launchers, Blast Shields
Options: The squad may include up to additional 5 Space Marines at +15 pts per additional model.
The Marine Sergeant has access to the Space Marine Armory.
One Space Marine may replace his Bolter with one of the following options: Flamer (+5 pts), Grenade Launcher (+10 pts), Meltagun (+10 pts), Plasma Gun (+15 pts)
If the squad numbers 10 or more, one additional Space Marine may replace his Bolter with one of the following options: Heavy Bolter (+5 points), Missile Launcher (+10 points), Lascannon (+15 points).
The squad may take a Rhino, Razorback, or Drop Pod as a Dedicated Transport, at their listed costs.
Scout Squad: 50 points Scout Marine: WS 3 BS 3 S 4 T 4 W 1 I 4 Ld 8 Sv 4+ A 1 Infantry
Scout Sergeant: WS 4 BS 4 S 4 T 4 W 2 I 4 Ld 9 Sv 4+ A 2 Infantry (Character)
Unit Composition: 4 Scout Marines, 1 Scout Sergeant
Wargear: Bolter, Scout Armor, Frag & Krak Grenades
Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads, Infiltrators, Scouts, Move Through Cover
Specialist Loadouts: Chameloline Cloaks, Auxiliary Grapnels, Pioneer Kit
Options:
Assault Centurions
Centurion Marine: WS 4 BS 4 S 5 T 5 W 2 I 4 Ld 8 Sv 2+ A 1
Centurion Sergeant: WS 4 BS 4 S 5 T 5 W 3 I 4 Ld 9 Sv 2+ A 2
Wargear: Omniscope
Options:
=Elites=
[spoiler]
Veteran Assault Squad: 125 points.
Veteran Marine: WS 5 BS 5 S 4 T 4 W 1 I 4 Ld 8 Sv 3+ A 2
Veteran Sergeant: WS 5 BS 5 S 4 T 4 W 2 I 4 Ld 9 Sv 3+ A 3
Unit Composition: 4 Space Marines, 1 Marine Sergeant
Wargear: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Power Armor, Jump Pack, Frag Grenade & Krak Grenades, Purity Seals
Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads, Well-Equipped
[b]Specializations: Options:
The Assault Squad may swap out its Jump Packs, in order to take a Dedicated Transport. The Dedicated Transport has a 5-point discount for every 5 models in the Assault Squad.
Veteran Tactical Squad: 125 points Veteran Marine: WS 4 BS 4 S 4 T 4 W 1 I 4 Ld 8 Sv 3+ A 1 Infantry
Veteran Sergeant: WS 4 BS 4 S 4 T 4 W 2 I 4 Ld 9 Sv 3+ A 2 Infantry (Character)
Unit Composition: 4 Space Marines, 1 Marine Sergeant
Wargear: Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Power Armor, Frag & Krak Grenades, Purity Seals
Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads, Well-Equipped
[b]Specializations: Options: The squad may include up to additional 5 Veteran Marines at +25 pts per additional model.
The Marine Sergeant has access to the Space Marine Armory.
The squad may take a Rhino, Razorback, or Drop Pod as a Dedicated Transport, at their listed costs.
Tactical Terminator Squad: 200 points
Terminator Veteran: WS 5 BS 5 S 4 T 4 W 2 I 4 Ld 8 Sv 2+ A 2 Infantry
Terminator Sergeant: WS 5 BS 5 S 4 T 4 W 3 I 4 Ld 9 Sv 2+ A 3 Infantry (Character)
Unit Composition: 4 Terminators, 1 Terminator Sergeant
Wargear: Storm Bolter, Terminator Armor, Purity Seals, Power Fist (Terminator Veteran), Power Sword (Terminator Sergeant)
Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads
Specialist Loadouts: Cataphractii-Pattern Armor, Grenade Harness,
Options:
Assault Terminator Squad: 200 points Terminator Veteran: WS 5 BS 5 S 4 T 4 W 2 I 4 Ld 8 Sv 2+ A 2
Terminator Sergeant: WS 5 BS 5 S 4 T 4 W 3 I 4 Ld 9 Sv 2+ A 3
Unit Composition: 4 Terminator Veterans, 1 Terminator Sergeant
Wargear: Terminator Armor, two Lightning Claws, Purity Seals
Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads
Specialist Loadouts: Cataphractii-Pattern Armor, Grenade Harness,
Options:
Tactical Dreadnought: 100 points
Dreadnought: WS 5, BS 5, S 6, FA 12, SA 12, RA 10, I 4, A 4, Walker
Unit Composition: 1 Dreadnought
Wargear: Power Fist with inbuilt Storm Bolter, Multimelta
Specialist Loadouts:
May replace its Power Fist and Storm Bolter with: Cyclone Missile Launcher, Twin-Linked Autocannon
May replace the Storm Bolter with a Heavy Flamer or Meltagun
May include
Assault Dreadnought: 100 points
Dreadnought: WS 5, BS 5, S 6, FA 12, SA 12, RA 10, I 4, A 4, Walker
Unit Composition: 1 Dreadnought
Wargear: Power Fist with inbuilt Storm Bolter, Power Fist with inbuilt Storm Bolter
Specialist Loadouts:
Options: May replace one Power Fist with inbuilt Storm Bolter with: Chainfist, Thunder Hammer
May replace either Storm Bolter with a Heavy Flamer or Meltagun.
May replace one Storm Bolter with a Storm Shield.
=Fast Attack=
Bike Squad:
Marine Biker: WS 4, BS 4, S 4, T 5, W 1, I 4, Ld 8, Sv 3+, A 1
Biker Sergeant: WS 4, BS 4, S 4, T 5, W 2, I 4, Ld 9, Sv 3+, A 2
Unit Composition: 2 Marine Bikers, 1 Biker Sergeant
Wargear: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Power Armor, Marine Bike w/ Twin-Linked Bolter
Specialist Loadouts: Purity Seals
Options
Land Speeder Squadron
Land Speeder
Unit Composition: 1 Land Speeder
Wargear: Heavy Bolter
Specialist Loadouts: Awakened Machine Spirit, Javelin Armor,
Options: May include an additional 2 Land Speeders at + points.
May replace its Heavy Bolter with a Heavy Flamer, Assault Cannon, or Multimelta.
May take: An extra Heavy Bolter, extra Heavy Flamer, extra Multimelta, or Typhoon Launcher.
Stormtalon
Stormtalon
Unit Composition: 1 Stormtalon
Wargear: Twin-Linked Assault Cannon, Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter
Specialist Loadouts: Awakened, Escort Craft,
Options
=Heavy Support=
Devastator Squad: 75 points Space Marine: WS 4 BS 4 S 4 T 4 W 1 I 4 Ld 8 Sv 3+ A 1
Marine Sergeant: WS 4 BS 4 S 4 T 4 W 2 I 4 Ld 9 Sv 3+ A 2
Wargear: Bolter, Frag Grenade, Krak Grenades
Specialist Loadouts:
Options:
Devastator Centurions
Centurion Marine: WS 4 BS 4 S 5 T 5 W 2 I 4 Ld 8 Sv 2+ A 1
Centurion Sergeant: WS 4 BS 4 S 5 T 5 W 3 I 4 Ld 9 Sv 2+ A 2
Wargear: Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter, Hurricane Bolter
Specialist Loadouts: Omniscope,
Options:
Predator: 75 points
BS 4, FA 13, SA 12, RA 11, HP 4
Wargear: Autocannon
Specialist Loadouts: Options: May replace the Autocannon with a Twin-Linked Lascannon (+X Points Cost)
May take a pair of Sponson Heavy Bolters (+X Points) or Sponson Lascannons (+X points); if this option is taken, the Predator's Side Armor is lowered to 11.
May take upgrades from the Space Marine Vehicle Armory.
Vindicator: 125 points
BS 4, FA 13, SA 12, RA 11, HP 4
Wargear: Demolisher Cannon, Siege Shield
Specialist Loadouts: Options: May take upgrades from the Space Marine Vehicle Armory.
Whirlwind: 75 points
BS 4, FA 12, SA 12, RA 11, HP 4
Wargear: Whirlwind Launcher
Specialist Loadouts: Options: May take upgrades from the Space Marine Vehicle Armory.
Hunter: 75 points
BS 4, FA 12, SA 12, RA 11, HP 4
Wargear: Skyspear Missile Launcher
Specialist Loadouts: Options: May take upgrades from the Space Marine Vehicle Armory.
Stalker: 75 points
BS 4, FA 12, SA 12, RA 11, HP 4
Wargear: Twin Icarus Autocannons
Specialist Loadouts: Options: May take upgrades from the Space Marine Vehicle Armory.
The attempt to consolidate every space marine chapter and all of the idiosyncrasies present among space marines is too ambitious IMO. I prefer a HH anthology type approach. where we have defined chapter tactics for every chapter (SM and CSM are the only one this works for) and a "vanilla" army list. Chapters that don't fit into the normal army list (DA, BA Space Wolves, etc.) have a "supplement" type thing that goes along with it that lists exceptions, additions, unique units, wargear, etc. The system you have going on reminds me more of an TTRPG than a wargame
I went to Hershey Park in central PA this year, and I have to say I was more than a little disappointed. I fully expected the entire theme park to be make entirely of chocolate, but no. Here in America, we have "building codes," and some other nonsense about chocolate melting if don't store it someplace kept below room temperature.
Powerfisting wrote: The attempt to consolidate every space marine chapter and all of the idiosyncrasies present among space marines is too ambitious IMO. I prefer a HH anthology type approach. where we have defined chapter tactics for every chapter (SM and CSM are the only one this works for) and a "vanilla" army list. Chapters that don't fit into the normal army list (DA, BA Space Wolves, etc.) have a "supplement" type thing that goes along with it that lists exceptions, additions, unique units, wargear, etc. The system you have going on reminds me more of an TTRPG than a wargame
Guilty as charged. I aimed to do something that was "halfway" in between the 4th edition Traits system, Guard Doctrines, and the "Create a Chapter System" in Deathwatch: Rites of Battle, alongside a lot of reviewing the old Index Astartes series. Of course, the 4th edition codex had the whole issue that taking advantages required taking disadvantages, but you could build armies where the disadvantage was effectively meaningless. Stuff like "Oh no, I can only take one Land Speeder. Wait a second, this is 4th edition, and Land Speeders are super-fragile!" A lot of it still needs crunching out of course.
From an actual balance perspective, main items of interest include:
-Balancing out Tacticals/Assault/Scouts as the main troops of the army, and making Foot/Mech slightly more viable versus Podding.
-Improving the viability of oft-neglected units; Tactical Terminators, Assault Centurions, Scout Bikers, Whirlwinds, Land Speeders post-Stormtalon...
-Making units feel more *distinct* in purpose, while keeping them generalist in nature. That's always a classic challenge. -Personally, I'm in favor of removing Grenades from Bike-based units, partially because of suspension of disbelief (Marines *are* awesome, but holstering a pistol, drawing a grenade, throwing it, all while maintaining a perfect balance on a bike is a bit much), but mostly because of an interest in game balance (Bikes and vehicles rule the open fields, but you need infantry to flush your foes from cover).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/30 18:39:27
