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2016/04/23 17:00:40
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Dakka had a thread about gun rights for ex-cons and I specifically remember it because it was one of the few DakkaDakka OT threads on guns where everyone was of universal agreement (that time served is served and further restrictions were wrong).
Yes, and it should be an automatic process. The only time it makes sense to me in any way to have your voting rights rescinded is if your were convicted of election fraud or something similar, and even then it's a pretty weak sell to me.
Just out of curiosity, do you think they should also get 2nd amendment rights restored? Maybe with a similar caveat (if they committed some crime while armed with a gun, no restoration)?
Not trying to play any games, I'm genuinely curious.
Spoiler:
Personally, I think under almost all conditions all rights should be restored.
2nd amendment rights will require a bit more complexity in gauging whether the right should be restored. You can't directly kill someone with a vote in an election, so having a history of violence should not prevent you from being able to participate in that process.
Getting a gun though? I personally would be hesitant to give that right back to someone convicted of a violent crime, especially if that crime did involve firearms. Maybe after a long probationary period after release, if they have kept to the rules of the probation and have acquired steady work and are in a stable environment it should be considered.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2016/04/23 17:13:36
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
CptJake wrote: [Just out of curiosity, do you think they should also get 2nd amendment rights restored? Maybe with a similar caveat (if they committed some crime while armed with a gun, no restoration)?
Not trying to play any games, I'm genuinely curious.
Yes, but the caveat described is a much easier sell to me. I'd be much more inclined to see the sense in not allowing someone who committed armed robbery or suchlike to legally own firearms. Otherwise, the completion of your sentence should be the end of your punishment.
And before you or someone asks, yes, I believe that applies to most sex offenders too. If you're too dangerous to the public to allow you to be released, then you should not be released, but if it's appropriate for you to be released, you should be free. No half measures, much less this nonsense about you having a scarlet letter for life that makes it much harder for you to ever re-enter society in a meaningful way, thereby vastly increasing the chances you re-offend.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/04/23 17:15:26
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2016/04/23 17:29:01
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Yes, and it should be an automatic process. The only time it makes sense to me in any way to have your voting rights rescinded is if your were convicted of election fraud or something similar, and even then it's a pretty weak sell to me.
Just out of curiosity, do you think they should also get 2nd amendment rights restored? Maybe with a similar caveat (if they committed some crime while armed with a gun, no restoration)?
Not trying to play any games, I'm genuinely curious.
Spoiler:
Personally, I think under almost all conditions all rights should be restored.
For non violent crimes? Definitely. Dunno for violent crimes though, maybe a system to asses whether they are still likely to commit?
CptJake wrote: [Just out of curiosity, do you think they should also get 2nd amendment rights restored? Maybe with a similar caveat (if they committed some crime while armed with a gun, no restoration)?
Not trying to play any games, I'm genuinely curious.
Yes, but the caveat described is a much easier sell to me. I'd be much more inclined to see the sense in not allowing someone who committed armed robbery or suchlike to legally own firearms. Otherwise, the completion of your sentence should be the end of your punishment.
And before you or someone asks, yes, I believe that applies to most sex offenders too. If you're too dangerous to the public to allow you to be released, then you should not be released, but if it's appropriate for you to be released, you should be free. No half measures, much less this nonsense about you having a scarlet letter for life that makes it much harder for you to ever re-enter society in a meaningful way, thereby vastly increasing the chances you re-offend.
Especially for non-forceful, non-manipulative stuff. Stuff like one side of a relationship coming of age before the other.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/23 17:30:39
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
2016/04/23 17:39:09
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
LordofHats wrote: Dakka had a thread about gun rights for ex-cons and I specifically remember it because it was one of the few DakkaDakka OT threads on guns where everyone was of universal agreement (that time served is served and further restrictions were wrong).
Yup. Either;
a) That person is a continuing danger to society, and should be detained until they may be reintegrated
b) That person is not a continuing danger to society, and should have all their rights restored
2016/04/23 17:54:18
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
whembly wrote: It's not that leap of logic to suggest that this helps pad the Democrat votes.
Sure, if you ignore the fact these voting rights reforms were started by a Republican governor (who, interestingly enough, is now a convicted felon).
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
2016/04/23 18:05:30
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Meanwhile, in Britain, President Obama has been playing some golf, watched Hamlet at the Globe Theatre, and enjoyed a cheese and wine lunch at a top London restaurant!
Can you guys remind me why you elect people President?
Sounds like a 4 year holiday to me!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Polonius wrote: I think it's interesting that nearly any effort to expand suffrage or make it easier to vote is seen as a ploy to help democrats.
I think the Republicans can no longer count on their base turning out en masse as in previous years, and given how close the Virginia result was in 2012, extra votes will make a difference, assuming every convicted felon allowed to vote, is a Democrat.
Yes, and it should be an automatic process. The only time it makes sense to me in any way to have your voting rights rescinded is if your were convicted of election fraud or something similar, and even then it's a pretty weak sell to me.
Just out of curiosity, do you think they should also get 2nd amendment rights restored? Maybe with a similar caveat (if they committed some crime while armed with a gun, no restoration)?
Not trying to play any games, I'm genuinely curious.
Spoiler:
Personally, I think under almost all conditions all rights should be restored.
I read that a lot of ex-confederates got their rights back after the Civil War, despite them being traitors to the Union, so there is historical precedence for giving people back full rights, despite them committing serious crimes or treasonous acts.
Yes, and it should be an automatic process. The only time it makes sense to me in any way to have your voting rights rescinded is if your were convicted of election fraud or something similar, and even then it's a pretty weak sell to me.
I know he was pardoned but Nixon seemed to rehabilitate himself pretty well, and he did some pretty bad gak.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/04/23 18:28:22
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2016/04/23 22:30:56
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
OR... it could simply McAuliffe ensuring that Clinton and her Sec of State staff could still vote in November.
Yeah, I don't know how you can make that argument with a straight face. Clinton isn't a Virginia resident and, while much of her staff probably are, it is highly unlikely a significant number would ever be indicted.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2016/04/24 13:41:53
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
There are probably some few felonies that could allow restoration of firearm ownership....but in general...I agree with the suspension of their 2nd amendment right if convicted of felonies.
Does it stop many of them from getting guns? Certainly not.
I destroy my enemies when I make them my friends.
Three!! Three successful trades! Ah ah ah!
2016/04/24 14:57:50
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
TheMeanDM wrote: There are probably some few felonies that could allow restoration of firearm ownership....but in general...I agree with the suspension of their 2nd amendment right if convicted of felonies.
Does it stop many of them from getting guns? Certainly not.
As I said earlier, people like Robert E Lee got off with a slap to the wrist for doing arguably more damage to America, so IMO, even if somebody has had convictions for firearm offences, they should get their full 2nd amendment rights restored.
Look, I could be horribly wrong here because my American gun law knowledge is non-existent, but doesn't firearm offences cover more than shooting people?
Fraudulent paperwork? False gun registration, transporting guns to different states, making your own guns etc etc
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2016/04/24 21:26:34
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
2016/04/24 21:50:49
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Late on Thursday, the Oklahoma House of Representatives passed a bill that fully bans abortion in the state.
Oklahoma's SB 1552 passed by a 59-9 vote in the heavily Republican legislature. The law is now on the desk of the state's Republican governor, Mary Fallin, who has yet to address whether she plans to sign the legislation into law. If she does, the state could face one of the most intense federal legal battles on the issue.
The controversial Oklahoma bill manages to sideline abortion services by revoking the medical licenses of any doctor found performing the procedure for any other reason than in cases of miscarriage or severe physical trauma to the fetus or pregnant woman.
Doctors who do perform abortions outside this spectrum may face felony charges.
The prohibition includes abortions required to save the life of a pregnant woman; however, inducing an early birth to save the life of a fetus would be legal.
From the text of SB 1552:
Performance of an abortion as defined by Section 1-730 of Title 63 of the Oklahoma Statutes with an intention other than to increase the probability of a live birth, to preserve the life or health of the child after live birth, to remove an ectopic pregnancy, or to remove a dead unborn child who died as the result of a spontaneous miscarriage, accidental trauma, or a criminal assault on the pregnant female or her unborn child.
The bill's text mandates that the State Board of Medical Licensure and Supervision, State Board of Osteopathic Examiners, and State Board of Health all comply with the license revocations.
Any physician participating in the performance of an abortion shall be prohibited from obtaining or renewing a license to practice medicine in this state. The State Board of Medical Licensure and Supervision shall revoke the license of an allopathic physician performing an abortion in this state. The State Board of Osteopathic Examiners shall revoke the license of an osteopathic physician performing an abortion in this state.
The U.S. Supreme Court's landmark decision in the 1973 case Roe v. Wade and subsequent abortion cases have found that women in the U.S. have a constitutional right to privacy with regards to their medical choices, including abortion.
According to Reuters, statements made by legislators during Thursday night's deliberations largely focused on morality and betrayed a devil-may-care attitude about the potential federal battle that is likely to ensue if Fallin signs the bill into law.
“I’ve heard almost every argument today about judicial challenge to this legislation, and after much prayer and study, I ask myself this question,” Rep. David Brumbaugh (R) said on Thursday, according to TPM. “Do we make laws because they're moral and right, or do we make them based on what an unelected judicial occupant might question or overturn?”
“If we take care of morality,” Brumbaugh added, according to Reuters, “God will take care of the economy.”
The Center for Reproductive Rights urged Fallin not to sign the bill into law. Amanda Allen, CRR's senior state legislative counsel, told the Daily Dot in a statement via email that the total abortion ban was “cruel and unconstitutional.”
“Oklahoma politicians have made it their mission year after year to restrict women’s access vital health care services, yet this total ban on abortion is a new low,” said Allen. “When abortion is illegal, women and their health, futures, and families suffer.”
CRR told the Daily Dot in an email that Oklahoma currently has only two abortion providers. CRR has filed eight lawsuits against Oklahoma state abortion restrictions in the past five years alone.
Yamani Hernandez, executive director of National Network of Abortion Funds, further condemned the bill as “uniquely sinister” and “playing politics” with vulnerable Americans.
“SB 1552 violates the constitutional rights of people needing an abortion. Its playing politics with the the most vulnerable people and families,” Hernandez said in an email to the Daily Dot. “Setting up a situation where people can't get the care they need, and then punishes people for attempting to provide their own care, is uniquely sinister.”
On Tuesday, prior to the House passage of SB 1552, the Oklahoma Senate voted in favor of another law restricting abortion. The Prenatal Nondiscrimination Act of 2016 passed by 39-6 after being approval in the House. It would ban abortions performed on fetuses with Down Syndrome or other genetic abnormalities. The legislation would also revoke the medical licenses of doctors who perform procedures on these fetuses.
If signed by Fallin, the law would make Oklahoma the third state in the country, including North Dakota and Indiana, to ban abortions on fetuses with Down Syndrome and other disabilities.
Correction: If SB 1552 passes, doctors who perform abortions could face felony charges.
Always good to see peoples freedoms being restricted because of "morals" and other such bullgak.
2016/04/24 21:54:53
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
I can't imagine the people of Oklahoma are excited that their tax money is about to get wasted in a losing defense of a stupid law, which was probably known that it wouldn't be able to stand up to a challenge when it was passed.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2016/04/24 22:06:14
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
The people in Oklahoma are currently facing the reality of getting another 100,000 people kicked off Medicaid, slashing Medicaid rates again, children going hungry, schools having to switch to 4 day weeks, prisons being severely understaffed, DHS cutting staff, and public agencies shutting down. The entire state has had a 14% budget cut across all agencies after two years of revenue failures in a row. We have just over a month left in the legislative session, and we have not seen any movement on any bill that would do anything to address the fact that our state is broke as feth because the legislators have already admitted that they don't want to do anything related to budget until they know who will be running against them in the elections this year. Because their own political agenda is more important than any of the people in this state.
But we did find the time to pass legislation on open carry for everyone without any licensing requirements and to pass legislation that will cost the state even more money to defend in court yet another year because our legislators are dumber than a sack of rocks.
Our legislature is a cancer, and it's killing us.
2016/04/24 22:14:47
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
d-usa wrote: The people in Oklahoma are currently facing the reality of getting another 100,000 people kicked off Medicaid, slashing Medicaid rates again, children going hungry, schools having to switch to 4 day weeks, prisons being severely understaffed, DHS cutting staff, and public agencies shutting down. The entire state has had a 14% budget cut across all agencies after two years of revenue failures in a row. We have just over a month left in the legislative session, and we have not seen any movement on any bill that would do anything to address the fact that our state is broke as feth because the legislators have already admitted that they don't want to do anything related to budget until they know who will be running against them in the elections this year. Because their own political agenda is more important than any of the people in this state.
But we did find the time to pass legislation on open carry for everyone without any licensing requirements and to pass legislation that will cost the state even more money to defend in court yet another year because our legislators are dumber than a sack of rocks.
Our legislature is a cancer, and it's killing us.
Hey man, at least you guys have a budget. Illinois hasn't had one since July 1st of last year. Everybody talks about how states rights are sacred and they need more power. I am just sitting over here like "Man, I hope the feds declare Illinois a state of emergency and come save us from this idiot named Rauner."
2016/04/24 22:20:54
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
d-usa wrote: The people in Oklahoma are currently facing the reality of getting another 100,000 people kicked off Medicaid, slashing Medicaid rates again, children going hungry, schools having to switch to 4 day weeks, prisons being severely understaffed, DHS cutting staff, and public agencies shutting down. The entire state has had a 14% budget cut across all agencies after two years of revenue failures in a row. We have just over a month left in the legislative session, and we have not seen any movement on any bill that would do anything to address the fact that our state is broke as feth because the legislators have already admitted that they don't want to do anything related to budget until they know who will be running against them in the elections this year. Because their own political agenda is more important than any of the people in this state.
But we did find the time to pass legislation on open carry for everyone without any licensing requirements and to pass legislation that will cost the state even more money to defend in court yet another year because our legislators are dumber than a sack of rocks.
Our legislature is a cancer, and it's killing us.
Truly, voters get the government they deserve.
2016/04/24 22:30:03
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Voter's don't even get to make the choice most of the time in Oklahoma over the last few elections. Many seats only have a single person filing for them, and many more only have multiple people from the same party running for the seat.
This will be the first year in a while that there are a lot of folks running and we will have actual elections.
2016/04/24 22:42:18
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
d-usa wrote: Voter's don't even get to make the choice most of the time in Oklahoma over the last few elections. Many seats only have a single person filing for them, and many more only have multiple people from the same party running for the seat.
This will be the first year in a while that there are a lot of folks running and we will have actual elections.
As opposed to?
2016/04/24 22:46:22
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
d-usa wrote: Voter's don't even get to make the choice most of the time in Oklahoma over the last few elections. Many seats only have a single person filing for them, and many more only have multiple people from the same party running for the seat.
This will be the first year in a while that there are a lot of folks running and we will have actual elections.
As opposed to?
The answer is in the quoted text.
But to repeat myself:
Usually there is one person files for the seat and "wins" the seat as soon as the filing period closes, there is no primary ballot and no general election ballot. There is no election, and the seat is won by paying the filing fee. If you are lucky there are two people from the same party filing for the seat and you might have a primary election and you get to participate if you are registered with that party.
But this year there are more people filing for the seats and there will be a primary election and a general election to decide who wins the seat.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LordofHats wrote: I think he's saying it's not really an election if only one person is running, or if the only other persons running are from the same party.
Exactly.
And that's not really the fault of the system, mind you, that's the result of apathy over politics at the state level. We would have elections if more people cared enough to run for the seats that are open, instead we have seats that are yours if you pay the fee because nobody else is even interested in it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/24 22:48:36
2016/04/25 01:01:07
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
d-usa wrote: Voter's don't even get to make the choice most of the time in Oklahoma over the last few elections. Many seats only have a single person filing for them, and many more only have multiple people from the same party running for the seat.
This will be the first year in a while that there are a lot of folks running and we will have actual elections.
As opposed to?
The answer is in the quoted text.
But to repeat myself:
Usually there is one person files for the seat and "wins" the seat as soon as the filing period closes, there is no primary ballot and no general election ballot. There is no election, and the seat is won by paying the filing fee. If you are lucky there are two people from the same party filing for the seat and you might have a primary election and you get to participate if you are registered with that party.
But this year there are more people filing for the seats and there will be a primary election and a general election to decide who wins the seat.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LordofHats wrote: I think he's saying it's not really an election if only one person is running, or if the only other persons running are from the same party.
Exactly.
And that's not really the fault of the system, mind you, that's the result of apathy over politics at the state level. We would have elections if more people cared enough to run for the seats that are open, instead we have seats that are yours if you pay the fee because nobody else is even interested in it.
If the voters believe that the only way to participate in the aptly named participatory democratic process is to turn up on a pre-determined day to vote, and then complain after the fact about their limited choices then truly, voters get the government they deserve.
2016/04/25 02:52:11
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Yeah, if running for office were really as simple as just filling out a form, you might have a point but I assume we're all intelligent enough to know that it's not that simple.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/04/25 02:52:21
Hey man, at least you guys have a budget. Illinois hasn't had one since July 1st of last year. Everybody talks about how states rights are sacred and they need more power. I am just sitting over here like "Man, I hope the feds declare Illinois a state of emergency and come save us from this idiot named Rauner."
It has gotten to the point where universities that serve constituents who back Rauner are on the verge of laying off even more people.
I've been saying this for ages. The voters are the problem, especially the ones who think their opinions are educated.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
2016/04/25 05:41:50
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Hey man, at least you guys have a budget. Illinois hasn't had one since July 1st of last year. Everybody talks about how states rights are sacred and they need more power. I am just sitting over here like "Man, I hope the feds declare Illinois a state of emergency and come save us from this idiot named Rauner."
It has gotten to the point where universities that serve constituents who back Rauner are on the verge of laying off even more people.
Oh I know, I live in Carbondale. SIU is talking about closing for a semester, laying people off, and downgrading to be a college instead of a University.
2016/04/25 12:47:12
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Cruz and Kasich are dividing the remaining states between them in an attempt to block Trump.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
2016/04/25 13:01:33
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
