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Vhalyar wrote:

Pyriel- wrote:But surely the stormraven can get the scout rule from a grandmasters special D3 rule?

Nope, it's limited to Infantry, Jump Infantry, Monstrous Creatures and Walkers.
Henchmen Warbands, Independent Characters and Ghost Knights cannot have Grand Strategy used on them.

What about vehicles?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just realised if we allow 4 points per model upgrades to the 20ppm PAGK, you will be able to fit 50 in a 1300 list (1500 with a 200 point HQ) !

Thats not a bad force. Bland as hell but it could whoop the ass of an ork horde.

Jaon wrote:

Vhalyar wrote:

Pyriel- wrote:But surely the stormraven can get the scout rule from a grandmasters special D3 rule?

Nope, it's limited to Infantry, Jump Infantry, Monstrous Creatures and Walkers.
Henchmen Warbands, Independent Characters and Ghost Knights cannot have Grand Strategy used on them.

What about vehicles?

It says limited to...and vehicles aren't listed there...(^_^)

For giggles though, you want to see how strong 10 Paladins would be? 150 boyz charge them and let's say for gaks/giggles that 100 manage to get within 2" for attacks (Impossible but hey for fun).

That's 400 attacks.
200 hits
100 wounds

Unit of 10 paladins, each takes 10 saves.

Each paladin fails 1.6 saves initially.
Then 0.8 saves after FNP.

Which means the Paladin player didn't lose a model...lol. Movie Marines indeed!

Heh, that was kind of fun

Yeah, paladins are pretty much immune to small arms fire and normal Cc.
It´s the powerfist type attacks that hardcounter these guys no matter if a few ward saves are included or not.
5 paladins (fit in a LR), add 2 ward saves and an apot this unit goes up to 485p. Over 500 if a psycannon is taken.
Now other units and other support aside since those are on equal point terms (and as you said, units ABC vs units DEF is futile)
these paladins face up with a cheaper hammernator squad (for example I use 10 all the time).

Thats without anyone getting charge for the sale of averages 2 dead hammernators before they strike back causing 6 wounds in return.

This means 3 dead paladins, no apot FNPs apply, no wound allocating away 1w each apply etc, the unit is hardcoutered by another and much cheaper and v e are y common unit.


All silly examples aside, my point is that the GK codex, well at least some of the most insanely sounding and "OP" units like paladins, are pretty much balanced in an overall context.



Now as I am about to go buy 2 stormravens for the upcoming GK codex, does anyone know of some logical way to actually use them with less of the fear of having it blow up before it even reaches where it is supposed to be?

Say, stormraven
+
10 GK squad
+
HQ
+ dread
= around 700p. (what´s the point loading it up half full, better to have that dread and a decent squad inside and maybe HQ as well).

800 points sound way to much to be trusted with one AV12 flyer that needs to sit&fly exposed (with 4+ cover save) for at least 2 turns before it can do anything good.

So with the henchmen then, the current rumor says NOT veteran stats? So not really Sister of Battle Replacements?

Pyriel- wrote:

Yeah, paladins are pretty much immune to small arms fire and normal Cc.
It´s the powerfist type attacks that hardcounter these guys no matter if a few ward saves are included or not.
5 paladins (fit in a LR), add 2 ward saves and an apot this unit goes up to 485p. Over 500 if a psycannon is taken.
Now other units and other support aside since those are on equal point terms (and as you said, units ABC vs units DEF is futile)
these paladins face up with a cheaper hammernator squad (for example I use 10 all the time).

Thats without anyone getting charge for the sale of averages 2 dead hammernators before they strike back causing 6 wounds in return.

This means 3 dead paladins, no apot FNPs apply, no wound allocating away 1w each apply etc, the unit is hardcoutered by another and much cheaper and v e are y common unit.


All silly examples aside, my point is that the GK codex, well at least some of the most insanely sounding and "OP" units like paladins, are pretty much balanced in an overall context.

Well, given that you would charge out of your Land Raider at 10 TH/SS Terms on foot....I guess you deserve to lose your Paladins...

There is no way anyone can tell if the GK codex is balanced. We are pissing in the wind over rumors and even if they were solid, we can only guess given our past experiences playing the game. Playing trumps all our theories.


I think I read that GK Stormraves cannot transport Dreads, not sure though.

AgeOfEgos wrote:I think I read that GK Stormraves cannot transport Dreads, not sure though.

The Stormraven can carry Dreadnoughts.
The Stormraven cannot carry Dreadknights. It's not like the Knight needs a 200 point deathbox to move around anyway.

Personally I can't see much of a use for Stormravens and will pass on them. For the cost, Mordrack and 10 customizable Ghost Knights seem vastly safer, on top of deepstriking on turn one without scatter.

Vhalyar wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:I think I read that GK Stormraves cannot transport Dreads, not sure though.

The Stormraven can carry Dreadnoughts.
The Stormraven cannot carry Dreadknights. It's not like the Knight needs a 200 point deathbox to move around anyway.

Ahh ok. Can you confirm this combination;


Give Dreadknights Teleporter
Grandmaster gives them scouting
They scout 30" using their teleporter move
or
They scout 12" using their regular move

Both of those legal or?

AgeOfEgos wrote:Ahh ok. Can you confirm this combination;


Give Dreadknights Teleporter
Grandmaster gives them scouting
They scout 30" using their teleporter move
or
They scout 12" using their regular move

Both of those legal or?

I can't give you a definite answer, I just happen to track the various leaks very closely. But so far nothing has indicated that it would be impossible.
I wouldn't build my dream army around this yet though, it's possible that the wording in the final version of the codex will explicitly prohibit that.
After all, it would make vanilla Dreadknights + Personal Teleporters able to punch the hell out of anything on the first turn.

So is anyone else feeling this army list?

Coteaz - 150p

3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p

1986p total

That's 18x razorgoon squad for you following along at home.

And all of them scoring!

Hopefully there's some as-yet undisclosed element that makes that list illegal, since it seems like it would make many (most?) current lists totally invalid except under special circumstances.

ph34r wrote:So is anyone else feeling this army list?

Coteaz - 150p

3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p
3 warriors, 2 with flamer - 22p
razorback with las/plas - 80p

1986p total

That's 18x razorgoon squad for you following along at home.

What? What does Cortez let you do, take Warriors as any slot or something? My god, that list is....nasty. Although LC generally aren't reliable against AV14, that many would do something. And the reali-life monetary factor is more mind-boggling than a 9x Vendetta list.

Gavo wrote:What does Cortez let you do, take Warriors as any slot or something? My god, that list is....nasty. Although LC generally aren't reliable against AV14, that many would do something. And the reali-life monetary factor is more mind-boggling than a 9x Vendetta list.

Makes Henchmen Warbands scoring and removes the limit on the number that can be taken.

Vhalyar wrote:

Gavo wrote:What does Cortez let you do, take Warriors as any slot or something? My god, that list is....nasty. Although LC generally aren't reliable against AV14, that many would do something. And the reali-life monetary factor is more mind-boggling than a 9x Vendetta list.

Makes Henchmen Warbands scoring and removes the limit on the number that can be taken.

Oh. My. God. Um....that list is plain nasty.

GLWT! Thats at least $1500 dollars there! (australian)

Although Id expect to see that at 'Ard Boyz.

Does your army have to be painted to attend 'Ard Boyz?

A variant of that list:


Coteaz - 150p

3 warriors with meltaguns - 42p
Chimera w/ multi-laser and heavy flamer- 55
3 warriors with meltaguns - 42p
Chimera w/ multi-laser and heavy flamer- 55
3 warriors with meltaguns - 42p
Chimera w/ multi-laser and heavy flamer- 55
3 warriors with meltaguns - 42p
Chimera w/ multi-laser and heavy flamer- 55
3 warriors with meltaguns - 42p
Chimera w/ multi-laser and heavy flamer- 55
3 warriors with meltaguns - 42p
Chimera w/ multi-laser and heavy flamer- 55
3 warriors with meltaguns - 42p
Chimera w/ multi-laser and heavy flamer- 55
3 warriors with meltaguns - 42p
Chimera w/ multi-laser and heavy flamer- 55
3 warriors with meltaguns - 42p
Chimera w/ multi-laser and heavy flamer- 55
3 warriors with meltaguns - 42p
Chimera w/ multi-laser and heavy flamer- 55
3 warriors with meltaguns - 42p
Chimera w/ multi-laser and heavy flamer- 55
3 warriors with meltaguns - 42p
Chimera w/ multi-laser and heavy flamer- 55
3 warriors with meltaguns - 42p
Chimera w/ multi-laser and heavy flamer- 55
3 warriors with meltaguns - 42p
Chimera w/ multi-laser and heavy flamer- 55
3 warriors with meltaguns - 42p
Chimera w/ multi-laser and heavy flamer- 55
3 warriors with meltaguns - 42p
Chimera w/ multi-laser and heavy flamer- 55
3 warriors with meltaguns - 42p
Chimera w/ multi-laser and heavy flamer- 55
3 warriors with meltaguns - 42p
Chimera w/ multi-laser and heavy flamer- 55
3 warriors with meltaguns - 42p
Chimera w/ multi-laser and heavy flamer- 55

1993p total


I really hope these lists are substantially illegal in some way, because they pretty much beat any currently valid list that I know of.

..Actually, taking an equal amount of las/plas and Assback could be even better! You still have plenty of las to deal with AV14, you still have plenty of plas for MCs, but you have Ass, to deal with hordes better too!

The Razorback version of the list has over 30 flamers. I don't think it really needs more anti-horde.

I'm liking those lists. Finally; pure Inquisition armies with some teeth.

That chimera list is insane.

More targets than you can shake a stick at? Check
Enough shooting for AV? 57 meltas, Check
Enough shooting for horde? 19 Heavy flamers on AV12, Check.

good lord...

if all of this is true it's going to be a massacre. I can understand the Inquisition build lists... but the Jokaero ... what are they thinking on making Xenos as a choice for the Imperium ? They supposed to be the guys that hate everything wich is not human... instead they still hate Xenos but use them to their own advantage.

I can understand that the background COULD evolve, that books and romance deserves a wider view otherwise the reading is plain and horrible with no quirks, but darn... making a rule like this (if true) means that the Inquisition largely accepts that Xenos to work for Humanity... this is clear heresy.

The only question I have from reading the prerelease book is if Coteaz makes then TAKE up FOC slots

He says they become TROOP CHOICES and are not limited by # of inquisitors.. But the henchmen entry says they dont take up FOC slots

Im not sure if Coteaz invalidates that, or simply adds them to the Troop section in much the same way as Lesser Demons

Kirasu wrote:The only question I have from reading the prerelease book is if Coteaz makes then TAKE up FOC slots

He says they become TROOP CHOICES and are not limited by # of inquisitors.. But the henchmen entry says they dont take up FOC slots

Im not sure if Coteaz invalidates that, or simply adds them to the Troop section in much the same way as Lesser Demons

Henchemn are Elites and do not take up a FOC slot.

All Cortez does it make them Troops rather than Elites, meaning they still don't use FOC slots, cause nothing in Cortez's rules change that part.

Yes I know, just wondering if it will be changed in the final version.. Seems to me the purpose of Coteaz was to give people the option to use non-GK lists.. Instead of haiving to use 2 GK squads and spamming chimeras with henchmen thats all

Honestly, if the units don't take a Troops slot, the game will more or less be completely broken, as very few armies *other* than those or certain other gimmicks that can beat those (30 scout bikers) will be valid. Even if the pre-release Codex doesn't have them taking a slot, that kind of thing is bad enough that I think they'd have to fix it in an FAQ.

KOS wrote:good lord...

if all of this is true it's going to be a massacre. I can understand the Inquisition build lists... but the Jokaero ... what are they thinking on making Xenos as a choice for the Imperium ? They supposed to be the guys that hate everything wich is not human... instead they still hate Xenos but use them to their own advantage.

I can understand that the background COULD evolve, that books and romance deserves a wider view otherwise the reading is plain and horrible with no quirks, but darn... making a rule like this (if true) means that the Inquisition largely accepts that Xenos to work for Humanity... this is clear heresy.

The Inquisition have always used Jokaero because they're not hostile to the Imperium, and make better technology than the Imperium ever could. Hell, remember, some Inquisitors use DAEMONHOSTS.

Anyway, I'm loving the idea of proper =][= armies with no GKs. I was worried that they would totally remove all non-GK units, but instead they've made them better!

That list is insane... so Kirasu, how many chimera's do you need for august? ;-)

Warboss Gubbinz wrote:That list is insane... so Kirasu, how many chimera's do you need for august? ;-)

The correct answer is between "how many he can lay his hands on" and "Far too many"

The two things I see really killing the goonspam list is 1. The cost and build time (ridiculous), and 2. kill points.

Or someone else playing the same list.

MELTA TANK BATTLE.

FIRST ONE TO REALISE IT'S FUTILE WINS.