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Confused about Resurrection Protocols now--haven't the rumors so far suggested it works more like FNP, and is essentially just a save after your save?

Wording like "comes back into play" makes it sound more like old WBB, where the models stay down temporarily and then can get back up at a later time.

marmaduke wrote:i was wondering if anyone covered it but does the whole quantum sheilding and living metal... does that have any effects on lance weapons? does it work like black templars blessed hull?

DJ3 wrote:Confused about Resurrection Protocols now--haven't the rumors so far suggested it works more like FNP, and is essentially just a save after your save?

Wording like "comes back into play" makes it sound more like old WBB, where the models stay down temporarily and then can get back up at a later time.

I know the summary on the first page is LONG, but all this info is there.

Ressurection Protocols happens at the end of each phase. But again, please read the whole first post summary before asking questions!

DJ3 wrote:Confused about Resurrection Protocols now--haven't the rumors so far suggested it works more like FNP, and is essentially just a save after your save?

Wording like "comes back into play" makes it sound more like old WBB, where the models stay down temporarily and then can get back up at a later time.

From Yakface's original post in May:

Yakface wrote:
3) We'll be Back is no longer called that and it is NOT Feel No Pain. Basically it is a 5+ bonus save similar to Feel No Pain, but doesn't get cancelled out by double strength, AP1/2, etc. In addition, this save is made at the END of the phase after morale tests are taken. If the unit is wiped out or is falling back at the end of the phase, then the save cannot be used. So as an opponent, if you manage to wipe the unit out or make them fall back, then you prevent any Necrons from getting back up...unless the unit has something called the 'ever-living' rule, in which case it gets to attempt this save even if the unit is wiped out.

I'm curious if the tomb spyders statline has been improved at all and if they are more expensive now that they seem to be a lot more versatile?

Yakface,
You've mentions some specifics about the IC point cost, but can you give us a range? Are they in the 200 point area, or is there a wider range than that?

You also mentioned that the Lords in the Royal Court are in the 50pt area... any word on the base cryptek cost?

Ah, there we go.

To be fair, I did search the original post, because I knew the explanation was in there somewhere--but with none of the words "resurrection," "reanimation," or "protocols" used in that paragraph it's a bit hard to find.

yakface wrote:Ressurrection Protocols returns the model to play with a single wound ... so Scarabs can come back as well now.

This is so full of win. My 90 scarab swarm just became infinitely more doused with awesomesauce.

So Yakface can you shed some light on the new walker that was supposed to be a 'Necromancer' giant robot but is in fact a IG style sentinel that looks a bit like a Scorpion with a driver (that's ancient Necron high tech for you), and doesn't get a model in the first wave if ever? So it's not a monstrous creature and is in fact a vehicle (walker) with AV11 and quantum shielding? So it's a Furioso Dreadnought with a two shot multi-melta but the first (saved with obscure or not) glance it takes gets reduced to AV11 permanently? It moves 6" per turn and that's it? Seriously? That has to be the most underwhelming and We do not use that word as a pejorative here at Dakka - MT11 concept ever.

Don't even get me started on the open topped skimmers that aren't fast vehicles. Being a skimmer that isn't fast is basically on most tabletops simply a disadvantage especially as Necrons aren't an assault army. Open topped and underwhelming weaponry are just nails in the coffin.

What are we missing? These walkers cost 50 points each and these Ghost Barges 30 points a pop? Oh wait! You're not supposed to play Necrons as a mech army and that's why we're releasing six new vehicle kits that all suck so much that they get laughed off competitive tables!

So in case I was being unclear, the Necron rumours seem to indicate the new Necrons aren't any better than the old Necrons. Atleast the old ones could hide behind a wall of Monoliths. Now the 20 meltas people are packing will just burn right through all that garbage.

Therion wrote:Seriously? That has to be the most underwhelming and do not quote that word please - MT11 concept ever.

You forgot something. It's open-topped. You know, just to make sure it stays even less on the table

These are probably old questions, but does anyone know if the codex is hard cover or not? Also noticed greed rods are gone, wondering how or with what they will be replaced in older molds such as warriors.

Therion wrote:So Yakface can you shed some light on the new walker that was supposed to be a 'Necromancer' giant robot but is in fact a IG style sentinel that looks a bit like a Scorpion with a driver (that's ancient Necron high tech for you), and doesn't get a model in the first wave if ever? So it's not a monstrous creature and is in fact a vehicle (walker) with AV11 and quantum shielding? So it's a Furioso Dreadnought with a two shot multi-melta but the first (saved with obscure or not) glance it takes gets reduced to AV11 permanently? It moves 6" per turn and that's it? Seriously? That has to be the most underwhelming and Do not quote unnaceptable words please concept ever.

Don't even get me started on the open topped skimmers that aren't fast vehicles. Being a skimmer that isn't fast is basically on most tabletops simply a disadvantage especially as Necrons aren't an assault army. Open topped and underwhelming weaponry are just nails in the coffin.

What are we missing? These walkers cost 50 points each and these Ghost Barges 30 points a pop? Oh wait! You're not supposed to play Necrons as a mech army and that's why we're releasing six new vehicle kits that all suck so much that they get laughed off competitive tables!

So in case I was being unclear, the Necron rumours seem to indicate the new Necrons aren't any better than the old Necrons. Atleast the old ones could hide behind a wall of Monoliths. Now the 20 meltas people are packing will just burn right through all that garbage.

Yeah damn those meltas! What ever will a 72" Str 9 AP1 Large blast do against them! If your upset that you're going to have to think about strategy now maybe this isnt the game for you. People dont even know the statlines on everything yet are so willing to complain. There are several weapons and abilities that either hit every guy in a unit or all the identical ones. Wonder how those could help against 20 meltas. Now that all of the regular units cant be instakilled and lose their WBB rule, points costs are dropped and we are getting some good CC that moves really quick and has invulnerable saves at hopefully a decent cost, I dont think we need to hide behind monoliths anymore.

When it comes to Necron AT, the thing you have to remember is that you're still dealing with an army where most units (those with Gauss weapons) have the ability to inflict glancing hits on vehicles and now you have Scarabs (and a few other models) with Entropic Stirke which allows you to reduce the armor of enemy vehicles, so I do think those two things potentially change how much AT firepower a Necron army has to have compared to traditional armies.

There are no units walking around with a bunch of AT firepower in them like you see in some other codexes (such as Long Fangs), but again, I don't think you're quite as reliant on these types of units because you have a few different avenues to get the same job done.


• The Stormlord has that Lightning that occurs when Night Fighting is going on, which hits vehicles on a D6 roll of '6' with D6 S8 hits that go against the side armor of vehicles that are hit.

• Most models with a Warscythe are striking at S7 in combat with them (which can certainly punch most vehicles). And when on a Command barge ICs can make 3 attacks on an enemy vehicle's back armor they pass over with their movement.

• Lychguard with Dispersion Shields could theoretically bounce back AT fire off their shields onto enemy vehicles within 6" (but there's no reliability there).

• The Triach Stalker of course has a 24" 2 shot S8 Melta weapon.

• C'Tan shards can take a 24" S9 shooting attack if they want. And of course the C'Tan & Tomb Spyders are both Monstrous Creatures (S7 & S6 respectively) which means they can still tear vehicles apart in CC.

• Heavy Destroyers are still 36" S9 shots.

• Wraiths are S6 rending 3 Attacks in CC.

• Scarabs of course (and some other models with special close combat weapons such as the Void Blade) have Entropic attacks.

• The Monolith still has its 24" S8 Particle Whip Large Blast.

• Doomsday Ark has the 72" S9 AP1 (large blast) shot if it doesn't move.

* Annihilation Barges & Night Scythes both have the twin-linked Tesla Destructor, which despite being AP-, should still do a decent job on low armor vehicles (with a S7 and 4 shots and the potential for more hits if you roll '6's to hit).

• The Doom Scythe of course has the Death Ray. I actually read its rules wrong before...its not quite as good as what I wrote before. It does a number of hits on a unit equal to the number of models in the unit that are under the line. So if a unit has 5 models under the line it takes 5 hits, but if a unit is only made up of a single model, then it is only taking 1 hit. Of course the hits are S10 AP1, so its still pretty nasty.

• Generic Overlords & Destroyer Lords can take a Tachyon Arrow, which is like a super version of the Hunter-Killer missile. It is one-use, but is S10 AP1 with unlimited range.

* One flavor of Cryptek has a 36" S8 attack, another has a 12" Assault 4 attack that hits like Haywire Grenades on vehicles (2-5 = glancing hit, 6 = penetrating hit), while another has a S6 single shot with unlimited range that is an Entropic attack (so will reduce enemy vehicle armor by 1 if it hits).


So all said, it looks like there should be plenty of AT options available.

Guys, do not quote words that are not acceptable here at Dakka. MT11

Okay - Thanks for the confirmation on Resurrection Protocols - My query was in reference to scarab swarms, in particular. This means they won't be as broken as I felt they would be, and through attrition can be brought down (barring incredible luck with 5+ saving throws). Can all units that have Resurrection Protocols also benefit from a Rez Orb being nearby, or must the unit have an orb on a model in it to benefit?

Thanks again, all this information is overwhelmingly awesome, and whetting my appetite even more for this new release. To those who say that the new necrons will be as pitiful at tournaments as the old, I say any new book's weaknesses can be pointed out in a vacuum. In a tournament, you're facing a mix of TAC lists, not tailored to one opponent usually, and I think the new necrons can expect to place higher overall in the months to come.

Give me 3 months with the codex and I may eat my words -- It happened with my Tyranids so i'm not ruling it out as a possibility.

That (maybe) cover art is hella sexy.

Thanks for the heads up on the Wraiths Yak. I'm gonna convert 12 of them

I agree with Therion. It is about Game Mechanics and what I have seen so far is distressing.

Pretty Models is what makes a quick sell. Good Game Mechanics makes long term sells. I'm not telling anyone not to buy the codex, I'm saying not to get your hopes too high.

For the lightning strikes, is it roll a D6 and if you roll a 6 all the enemy units are hit or is a D6 rolled for each individual enemy unit to see if they are hit.

• The Stormlord has that Lightning that occurs when Night Fighting is going on, which hits vehicles on a D6 roll of '6' with D6 S8 hits that go against the side armor of vehicles that are hit.

This guy seems useful and depending on the other abilities might become the Mephiston of this book. Too bad that many major tournaments still disallow named characters from being used.

• Most models with a Warscythe are striking at S7 in combat with them (which can certainly punch most vehicles). And when on a Command barge ICs can make 3 attacks on an enemy vehicle's back armor they pass over with their movement.

• Lychguard with Dispersion Shields could theoretically bounce back AT fire off their shields onto enemy vehicles within 6" (but there's no reliability there).

None of this is realistic.

• The Triach Stalker of course has a 24" 2 shot S8 Melta weapon.

Can it deep strike? Does it have some invulnerable saves we don't know of? Does it infiltrate? Does it scout? You're not seriously telling us that an AV11 regular walker with a multi-melta is good AT, are you?

• C'Tan shards can take a 24" S9 shooting attack if they want. And of course the C'Tan & Tomb Spyders are both Monstrous Creatures (S7 & S6 respectively) which means they can still tear vehicles apart in CC.

Can the C'tan deep strike? Can they infiltrate? Are they beasts? Are they jump infantry? Do they have some ridiculous invulnerable saves? You're not telling us that you we should use a 300 point Carnifex with Scything Talons as an anti-tank option?

• Heavy Destroyers are still 36" S9 shots.

Allright that's cool, and they come in units of 3 and when they're all shot down they don't get resurrection protocols of any sort. So how much does a unit like this cost? Over 120 points and it's bad.

• Wraiths are S6 rending 3 Attacks in CC.

That's cool. Maybe someone will try to make a pure assault army from the Necrons then. Of course it won't be nearly as good as TWC spam or oldschool Nob Bikers and whatnot but hey who cares right?

• Scarabs of course (and some other models with special close combat weapons such as the Void Blade) have Entropic attacks.

They seem to be pretty nice despite the fact that the game is filled with weapons that cause instant death in them by the dozen. All depends on their points cost of course. The only promising unit in the rumours so far.

• The Monolith still has its 24" S8 Particle Whip Large Blast.

The Monolith is bad now. Stormraven bad, and that's really really bad. It's too big, functions only as the world's slowest battle cannon and tries to survive in a game stacked with darklight and melta.

• Doomsday Ark has the 72" S9 AP1 (large blast) shot if it doesn't move.

That's great, so how much does it cost considering we're talking about a Ravager here with a blast weapon. More than 120 points fully upgraded with the quantum shields and whatnot and it's terrible, considering the movement restrictions and other weaknesses.

* Annihilation Barges & Night Scythes both have the twin-linked Tesla Destructor, which despite being AP-, should still do a decent job on low armor vehicles (with a S7 and 4 shots and the potential for more hits if you roll '6's to hit).

Tesla Destructor seems to be the only good new ranged weapon. It depends on how that rule gets interpreted of course (2 extra hits or just one extra hit per 6). Of course this depends on points costs too, but if the Annihilation Barges and Night Scythes are cheap enough there might be sense in maximising the Tesla Destructors.

• The Doom Scythe of course has the Death Ray. I actually read its rules wrong before...its not quite as good as what I wrote before. It does a number of hits on a unit equal to the number of models in the unit that are under the line. So if a unit has 5 models under the line it takes 5 hits, but if a unit is only made up of a single model, then it is only taking 1 hit. Of course the hits are S10 AP1, so its still pretty nasty.

I remember you mentioned this piece of garbage costs 200 points so it's far from nasty. It's an overpriced Ravager with a 12" range weapon that is very situational.

• Generic Overlords & Destroyer Lords can take a Tachyon Arrow, which is like a super version of the Hunter-Killer missile. It is one-use, but is S10 AP1 with unlimited range.

I doubt anyone will use any other HQ choices except the Stormlord if the rumours are accurate.

Death Ray - 12" Move, 12" start of the line, potential 18" line (average 11.5") - That's 36" Range, that will hit an entire parking lot if lined up correctly.

Not short range.

Have you read the codex? You just discounted everything yakface said without even knowing anything about half of them. You say that the stormlord is bad because you cant use him in tourneys and then the overlord is bad because you are going to use the stormlord yet you had just said you cant use the stormlord in tourney lists. Why dont you wait a couple weeks before you make all these assumptions.

Yak: could you elaborate a bit on the survive-ability of the shards? are they worth the cost in points?

so far i must say that the rules sound amazing for this army. really looking forward to get a look at the codex...

Therion: mabye you should look the horse in the mouth first before you decide if you want it shot

peebzguy wrote:

yakface wrote:Ressurrection Protocols returns the model to play with a single wound ... so Scarabs can come back as well now.

This is so full of win. My 90 scarab swarm just became infinitely more doused with awesomesauce.

What makes you think you can take 90 in the new book

Hox wrote:Have you read the codex? You just discounted everything yakface said without even knowing anything about half of them. You say that the stormlord is bad because you cant use him in tourneys and then the overlord is bad because you are going to use the stormlord yet you had just said you cant use the stormlord in tourney lists. Why dont you wait a couple weeks before you make all these assumptions.

Yakface could tell us everything he knows (he clearly has the codex or a PDF of it) yet he decides to give microscopic bits of information about every unit. I'm not sure why this is since there are no legal restrictions on him. Generally everyone in the GW hobby are paranoid about revealing information about products released in the immediate future. Perhaps he wants to keep a regular stream of traffic at the site ("check back for more information in a few hours"). That's none of my concern.

I'm firstly basing my assumptions about the units on what he tells us but in the cases of the unit just sounding ridiculously underwhelming asking him for extra information. I could've been more clear about the Stormlord, but to explain; it seems to be the best HQ unit in the codex by far but won't always be allowed. It means that it can't always be relied on unfortunately. For a regular tournament player, having a normal Overlord that could purchase the Stormlord's special abilities from a wargear list would've been more helpful.

I have never been to (or read about) a tournament that specifically disallowed named characters from a Warhammer 40,000 Codex. Is that really as common as Therion states?

There is waaaay to much whining about how Crons are underpowered when only 1 person here has seen the codex. To all of those discounting Necron vehicles, you do realize that the whole army will be dropping down at AV 13, right?

At 2k 10+ AV 13 vehicles will be a tough nut to crack, even for Psyfleman and Long Fangs. 3 Psyfleman will hit with roughly 10 shots and do on average about 1 glance, 1 pen and 1 glance/pen. Factor in cover saves and that's not a whole lot. Long Fangs average about the same. What seems to be the problem there?

chaos0xomega wrote:

peebzguy wrote:

yakface wrote:Ressurrection Protocols returns the model to play with a single wound ... so Scarabs can come back as well now.

This is so full of win. My 90 scarab swarm just became infinitely more doused with awesomesauce.

What makes you think you can take 90 in the new book

I haven't read anything that says otherwise

I am most interested in the SC that hacks into enemy vehicles. That is Jawsome street sharks.

The Problem is people drawing conclusions from incomplete information.....

Therion wrote:

Hox wrote:Have you read the codex? You just discounted everything yakface said without even knowing anything about half of them. You say that the stormlord is bad because you cant use him in tourneys and then the overlord is bad because you are going to use the stormlord yet you had just said you cant use the stormlord in tourney lists. Why dont you wait a couple weeks before you make all these assumptions.

Yakface could tell us everything he knows (he clearly has the codex or a PDF of it) yet he decides to give microscopic bits of information about every unit. I'm not sure why this is since there are no legal restrictions on him. Generally everyone in the GW hobby are paranoid about revealing information about products released in the immediate future. Perhaps he wants to keep a regular stream of traffic at the site ("check back for more information in a few hours"). That's none of my concern.

I'm firstly basing my assumptions about the units on what he tells us but in the cases of the unit just sounding ridiculously underwhelming asking him for extra information. I could've been more clear about the Stormlord, but to explain; it seems to be the best HQ unit in the codex by far but won't always be allowed. It means that it can't always be relied on unfortunately. For a regular tournament player, having a normal Overlord that could purchase the Stormlord's special abilities from a wargear list would've been more helpful.

Im pretty sure it is in fact illegal to post both points cost and the stat lines. Otherwise GW would never sell another codex again. That is why he is ambiguous about costs and is comparative as opposed to using exact numbers. Obviously you can assume that GW does not allow the unit info (the reason for which they sell the codex) to be copied. Look on any wargaming site (other than GW) and unit stats never appear. Whether its legal or not its respecting the company that provides this hobby to us. Clearly I want to see everything just as bad as you. I want to see the costs and options and artwork but I'd rather wait to buy the codex so I can go through it myself. The info yakface is providing is probably the best on the net and no other forum I have seen has anything but copies of his posts.