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In the Space Wolves Codex under the HQ selection "Wolf Guard Battle Leader", it says...

"Options: The Wolf Guard Battle Leader may be given any equipment allowed from the Space Wolves Armoury and/or the Wolf Guard entry in the army list"

In the Wolf Guard entry in the army list, the only real options a wolf guard may be "given" are the heavy weapons listed there.

So can my Wolf Guard Battle Leader, who purchases Terminator Armor from the Space Wolves Armoury take an Assault Cannon or Cyclone Missile Launcher per the Wolf Guard entry in the army list??

The only thing the current FAQ says about Wolf Guard Battle Leaders are these:

"A Wolf Guard Battle Leader may not take a Mark of the Wulfen"
 "A wolf Guard Battle Leader does not use the Wolf Guard column in the Space Wolf armoury when selecting weapons and wargear"
"A Wolf Guard Battle Leader does not count as one of the 20 Wolf Guard models you are allowed to have in a Space Wolves army"

You've got it. While it seems weird (since most HQs don't have access to heavy weapons), as you say, that's the only "option" listed there, so it does indeed seem that a WGBL can take an AC or Cyclone.

Posted By Mannahnin on 03/09/2007 4:26 PM
You've got it. While it seems weird (since most HQs don't have access to heavy weapons), as you say, that's the only "option" listed there, so it does indeed seem that a WGBL can take an AC or Cyclone.

However, wouldn't doing so break the rule"...  A Wolf Guard Battle Leader does not use the Wolf Guard column in the Space Wolf armoury when selecting weapons and wargear"?

Posted By Ghaz on 03/09/2007 9:39 PM
However, wouldn't doing so break the rule"...  A Wolf Guard Battle Leader does not use the Wolf Guard column in the Space Wolf armoury when selecting weapons and wargear"?

How?

The heavy weapons don't come from the Armoury...

Good point, but it would break the rule that squad upgrades must be given to normal squad members and not the character.

No it doesn't.

That rule applies to Squads that can take upgrade weapons.
"If a squad is allowed to have models with upgrades..."


A Wolf Guard Battle Leader is not a Squad. So the rule does not apply.

So if he's not taking the weapons from the squad and he's not taking them from the Armoury where are they coming from then?

He's taking them from the squad's options. That doesn't make him a part of the squad. It simply gives him the same options as the squad.

He himself is not a part of a squad. Therefore, when selecting an upgrade item, he is not bound by a rule that applies to members of squads taking upgrades.

Thanks for everyone's responses!

So what are your opinions on giving the Battle Leader an assault cannon? In terms of comp. score, would you say it's "cheesy" and trying to bend the rules to your favor?

And the rules say that he can't take squad options because they can only be given to 'normal squad members'.

Posted By Ghaz on 03/09/2007 10:32 PM
And the rules say that he can't take squad options because they can only be given to 'normal squad members'.

No they don't.

Once again, the rules say that if a squad can take upgrades, that those upgrades can not be taken by any characters in the squad.

The WGBL is not a squad. He is a unit consisting of a single Independant Character, who can select any available options from a particular squad's entry. That doesn't make him a squad, nor does it make him a part of that squad.

So a rule governing upgrades in squads simply does not apply to him.

Posted By Mr. Bombadidaloo on 03/09/2007 10:27 PM
So what are your opinions on giving the Battle Leader an assault cannon? In terms of comp. score, would you say it's "cheesy" and trying to bend the rules to your favor?

I don't see how there can be any 'bending' involved. The Heavy Weapons are the only option available in the Wolf Guard entry that he can't get from the Armoury. So if the intention was not for him to take Heavy Weapons, I don't see any possible reason for him being able to select from the entry in the first place.

And again, he can only take those items he is allowed to take, which does not include heavy weapons because characters are not allowed to take heavy weapons. It doesn't matter if the squad can take upgrades or not, those upgrades can not be taken by characters. He is a character and therefore he is not allowed to take them.

Ghaz, go and crack open your Space Marine codex and actually read the 'Options' entry on page 27.

The rule restricting upgrade weaponry to regular squad members only applies to squads.

The WGBL is not a squad.

Therefore, a rule that applies to squads does not apply to him.

It's that simple.

There is no rule that says that Characters can not take upgrade weaponry. There is only a rule preventing them from doing so if they are a part of a squad that can take upgrade weaponry..

Posted By Mr. Bombadidaloo on 03/09/2007 10:27 PM
Thanks for everyone's responses!

So what are your opinions on giving the Battle Leader an assault cannon? In terms of comp. score, would you say it's "cheesy" and trying to bend the rules to your favor?

Expect to get your comp score bombed as it's something that no other marine army can do...

Posted By insaniak on 03/10/2007 12:21 AM
Ghaz, go and crack open your Space Marine codex and actually read the 'Options' entry on page 27.

The rule restricting upgrade weaponry to regular squad members only applies to squads.

The WGBL is not a squad.

Therefore, a rule that applies to squads does not apply to him.

It's that simple.

There is no rule that says that Characters can not take upgrade weaponry. There is only a rule preventing them from doing so if they are a part of a squad that can take upgrade weaponry..

Exactly.  Also, there are no other "options" in the Wolf Guard entry for the WGBL to take.  The only thing listed are those gun upgrades, so there's really no other way to read it.  

Again, where does it say that it only applies to squads? It still says that you can not give squad upgrades to characters. It never says that you can not give the squad upgrades to characters in the squad. Secondly, where do the rules say that a character is allowed to take heavy weapons?

Posted By Ghaz on 03/10/2007 8:58 AM
Again, where does it say that it only applies to squads? Secondly, where do the rules say that a character is allowed to take heavy weapons?

I already told you where it says that it only applies to squads. Read your codex. Page 27: "Options"

Posted By Ghaz on 03/10/2007 8:58 AM
Secondly, where do the rules say that a character is allowed to take heavy weapons?

WGBL entry, where it says that he can select any available options from the Wolf Guard entry.

Ghaz, two points:-

1) The rules in the SW codex as quoted are difficult to argue with. Also, wouldn't the rules in the codex take priority over the normal rules because that is the point of a codex. Take for instance in 3rd edition, Salamanders didn't take on your own tests. Now, if you are going to argue 3rd v 4th you could have a point. The SW still stands at the moment - this point isn't in the FAQ, so I would say that this overrides any rules in the book - it won't be the first time a codex rule takes priority or changes the maning of a main rule and I am sure it will not be the last.

2) I hate to say it, but I think it is time that you considered posting less in this particular forum or revisiting how you discuss and argue points. When people provide arguments and page numbers etc in this thread to counter your assertions alll you seem to do is repeat them with an additional bolded word and never actually address peoples counters. I am not trolling you, I am making a valid point that has become increasing common in the majority of rule threads you have taken part in and I feel actual ruins what could turn into an interesting debate.

 

Note it says equipment, not weapons per se. And in the WG entry there is a qualifier that says only Wolf Guard bodyguards can take heavy weapons. Not WG Pack Leaders.

That line in the codex is probably the same as the line in the new Empire codex where it says Luther Huss has the Fiery Demagogue ability. A misprint, something in the playtesting, an idea they had and dropped and forgot to edit.

GW's stance is that a WGBL cannot take an assault cannon. If you goto a tournament or a GT, your list will be stamped illegal.

Why bother with the hassle....just don't do it.

 

Posted By General Hobbs on 03/12/2007 7:39 PM
Note it says equipment, not weapons per se.

Of course it does. Otherwise he wouldn't be able to select anything from the Armoury that wasn't a weapon...

Posted By General Hobbs on 03/12/2007 7:39 PM
And in the WG entry there is a qualifier that says only Wolf Guard bodyguards can take heavy weapons. Not WG Pack Leaders. 

There is?

I can't find any such statement in my codex...

Posted By General Hobbs on 03/12/2007 7:39 PM
GW's stance is that a WGBL cannot take an assault cannon.

And this ruling can be found where, exactly?

And it is perfectly whitin my rights to repeat what I think is a valid point as long as it is whitin the forums rules, thank you very much.  It is not up to you to dictate how or where I or anyone else post.