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I'm looking at playing my first game of Batman in, well, to be honest, a good few months. - Too many games, not enough time!

Despite thinking I had bought a whole bunch of models, I'm still struggling with getting suitably pointed gangs. Basically, I own too many sidekicks...

So, this is what I've ended up working out to field for me and my mate. If I've done it right, you won't be able to figure out what one I'm playing as:

Batman - 345, 1400
Arkham Origins Batman
Green Arrow
Agent Ron - Magazine, Whistle
Agent O'Connell - Flashlight
Gotham Policeman - Whistle
Gotham Policewoman - Flashlight


Two-Face - 346, $1450
Two-Face
Lieutenant Brandon
Arkham Origins Deathstroke
Puuoop - Bulletproof Vest
Twoowt
Zwoowz - Magazine, Bulletproof Vest


This look like a fair enough match?

Seems fair. The Two-Face crew does have a LOT of shooting potential with Dent, Branden, Deathstroke and Zwooz, but that is kind of his 'thing' and Stealth on Batman (does GA have it as well) can mitigate that slightly. The Bat player is going to have to manoeuvre very carefully to avoid those guns, but with judicious placing of objectives it shouldn't be too one-sided.

Yeah, Green Arrow has stealth, Arkham Origins Batman apparently does not though (but he does have his 5+ save as opposed to 6+).

Neither of us have played much of the game, so it's going to be interesting.

The main thing I worked out from making the Batman list was I really should stop procrastinating about getting the Commissioner Gordon set.

The only issue with the Gordon set is the $ cost on all those profiles because of the riot gear and guns. You can't even play the whole lot in one standard 300 Rep game without using someone who brings extra funding (currently Alfred or Adam West Bats), but as individuals, they're all good models; Assault rifles are killer, the shotgun allows some mobile shooting, and the riot shield is pretty handy too. Gordon's ability to illuminate an area is nifty with all that shooting, too.

Hmm, I probably need to pick the set up myself, come to think of it...

I don't know how public this is, or if its enough to make an issue with the Gordon set, but a new rule is in place to help. Any model that becomes the boss drops its funding price to $0.

So Gordon goes from $200 to $0, Talia from $200 to $0, and Cyborg from $500 to $0.

Neat, I wasn't aware of that.

 drazz wrote:
I don't know how public this is, or if its enough to make an issue with the Gordon set, but a new rule is in place to help. Any model that becomes the boss drops its funding price to $0.

So Gordon goes from $200 to $0, Talia from $200 to $0, and Cyborg from $500 to $0.

this is already in effect? I thought it wasn't going to be until 2E/expansion. Either way, I like it.

Also, I presume people have seen the new models for this month. Both Cyborg and Hawkgirl (as rep-expensive as they are) are making it harder for me to resist making a "good guy" gang...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If they make a Grayson/Agent 37 model, it'll definitely make me get a good gang. not sure how his rules would work, though...

Dooo it! DKR Bats, Cyborg and Hawkgirl come to 342 Rep and $500, so perfectly playable. You could even swap out Bats for the comic Green Arrow if you wanted. .

Or how about a Teen Titans list?
Cyborg
Hawkgirl
AK Robin

is a nice round 300 Rep, and probably quite playable.

Figured this ought to become the general Knight Models games thread now we have Spiderman Miniatures Game and the Marvel Universe game. Go wild with speculation, wishlisting, discussion ect!

Subbed.

So lets start the wishlisting. What does everyone really want to see in marvel and batman ?

Prices will probably throw me off the most, so I'd like to see starters in which I like all of the models. Can't get too specific, but I'd know it if I saw it. Xmen team is nice but cyclops and wolverine aren't.. working for me, for whatever reason.

Oooh, so many things! But my immediate wishlist for the Marvel game at the moment is a villain set opposite each of the upcoming hero teams.

Against the X-men, of course, the Brotherhood of Mutants: Magneto, Mystique, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver

To face the Guardians, I thought Thanos, Ronan The Accuser, Nebula and I struggled to think of a 4th... maybe The Super Skrull? Or the guy that's Thanos's right hand man/ambassador, can't think of his name right now. The one who gets his neck snapped by Ronan in the GotG movie.

For the Avengers, I'd want to see either Hydra, with Red Skull, Dr Zola, Crossbones and a dual-faction Winter Soldier, or for something a little more recent, maybe the Dark Avengers? Norman Osborne as the Iron Patriot, Venom as 'Spidey', Moonstone as Captain Marvel and Bullseye as 'Hawkeye' could be a nice lineup.

In terms of individual heroes I want to see, The Vision, Warbird/Captain Marvel, Dr Strange, Jean Grey, Storm, Nightcrawler, Beast, Groot, Falcon, Agents 13, Ant-man and the Wasp (no idea how they'd implement these either as minis or in the game, but I'd love to see it! ).

Biggest thing I want from the batman game is more options for an Green Arrow team. So many free agents cant be used by Arrow team.

For Marvel I want a playable Punisher and Both Frank Castle and Rachel Cole from Punisher warzone.



. More X-Men, a brotherhood squad. Winters solider, Hawk Eye and a shield force.

The only Guardians I'd be interested in seeing is a 'Movie Guardians' boxed set. Same with the Avengers, to be honest.

The only X-Men I'm particularly attached to is the 90's cartoon X-men. - Though, I think there's an... "New" X-Men? Jean Grey that's pretty awesome. (Or at least, that's what Marvel Heroes calls it)

I dunno, I'm wondering if this is going to be an issue for Knight Models? Despite tending to prefer DC, instinctually, I know that Marvel is far more popular overall.

But, the question is, what part of marvel is popular? Could it be that since Marvel is so diverse, the popularity is evenly split? In which case, what if the fans of one subsection aren't popular enough for the kits themselves?

I might be talking rubbish... But seriously, it's a thing I'm thinking...

I mean, sure there's loads of different Batmen, but that's one guy. Which iteration of the Guardians of the Galaxy do you do? Movie? Current comics, classic comics? What about the ones when Iron Man was a Guardian?

Movie X-Men, First Class X-Men, 90's X-Men, 80's X-Men? The original team? These are all the situations of multiple 'core' teams and each person would have their own personal preference of what means the most to them. How do you manage that?

From what we've seen, the Guardians will be the current/movie lineup; Groot and Rocket are confirmed, so that suggests that we'll get Starlord and Gamora in the starter, Groot as a Large model blister (like Grundy, Croc ect). Avengers we know have Widow, we can assume Iron Man and Thor as they've been shown, throw in Cap and do Hulk on his own (they already have minis for both) and you have the core of the Avengers Assemble movie team (and in the first movie, Hawkeye was pretty minor for most of it anyway). All the X-men in the starters have appeared in films in significant roles.

Thing is that basically anyone who's anyone has been an Avenger at some point, but there are still certain characters you think of as Avengers specifically. the 5 mentioned above, Ant-man and the Wasp, Vision, Hawkeye, Captain Marvel, maybe Spiderwoman, that's about it. Then there's the ones people who've read comics will know were on the team, like Luke Cage, Spidey, Wolverine, Doc Strange, Ares, Sentry, Wonder Man... So that's a easily couple of years of releases in just the first two 'tiers' of well-known-ness.

X-men again there are maybe a dozen that people will know/care about, between the films and basic comic knowledge. Cyclops, Storm, Wolverine, Iceman, Rogue, Gambit, Colossus, Prof X, Beast, Nightcrawler, Shadowcat, Bishop maybe... After that, it's characters to which most people who don't read comics are going to respond to with 'who?' I'm thinking Sunspot, Warpath, Havoc, Banshee (yeah, they were in First Class and Days of Future Past, but are most non-invested moviegoers going to remember them? Probably not)

Guardians are more limited, but I imagine the Cosmic faction will be a lot more 'random' than the others. You could throw in assorted Asgardian characters, the Nova Corps/Nova himself, Shi'ar/Skrull/Kree characters... but already you're getting quite obscure there.

I think in general, they'll stick to people who have appeared in previous-decade films, or 'iconic' comic lineups (probably based around 80s/90s comics and cartoons). I can actually see this range being a lot more popular than the DC stuff. While I personally prefer DC comics, and Marvel pale in comparison to them in the video game and animated material departments, the Batman game only really has 3 draws in 'mainstream' culture; the Arkham games, the Dark Knight films, and more recently Arrow (though I imagine that's less something that gets people looking at BMG, more something that they're pleasantly surprised to see included when they look into it) whereas you can't walk past any toy store, DVD store or aisle in a supermarket without something that says Marvel on it. There may be a lot of people who only watch the films and have never touched a comic in their lives, but that's still a huge audience with plenty of material to work from minis-wise; just releasing characters that have featured in recent films could keep KM busy for several years.

However, all that said, I don't think that even with the DC/Marvel tag, KM games are things that get people into wargaming in the same way that X-wing does. You still need to be aware of the hobby just to find them, looking in dedicated stores or online, and reasonably competent to build and paint the minis. There's a lot of crossover between gamers and comic fans, though, and that's where they'll get their audience, folks like us who already play Warhammer/X-wing/D&D/whatever and one day see that oh, look, you can get Batman/Iron Man/Thor models, and there's games to go with them.


Oops, that seems to have gone a bit rambly! Apologies! In short, though, I don't think KM will struggle to find stuff to sell us!

Yeah, wargaming wise, I think the Knight Model's games, though awesome, are always going to be niche-ish - particularly in America.
Even though it's a far superior game, I can't ever seeing it having a bigger impact than Heroclix.
I'd love to be proven wrong though...

My thinking was less an issue of them finding things to sell us but more, are they going to find things in specific costumes and settings to sell us in sufficient volumes?
For example, comic fans might massively love the current 'Rocket Raccoon' model. Personally, I prefer the design of Movie Rocket. Therefore, if a Guardians box set comes out with comic Rocket, I'm then not going to be buying that and other primarily movie fans might not either. The inverse may be true as well. Therefore, though there are almost certainly sufficient 'Guardians of the Galaxy' fans to sustain the range, what if they're too split up into separate subgroups that won't fun group starter sets?

 carlos13th wrote:
Biggest thing I want from the batman game is more options for an Green Arrow team. So many free agents cant be used by Arrow team.

Interestingly, the Speedy/Red Arrow Roy Harper model has been erattad to Arsenal, so I wonder if we might be getting the current TV Thea Queen version of Speedy at some point in the not-too-distant future...

I'd buy the hell out of a more fleshed out Arrow line. Sara Black Canary, Thea Speedy, Diggle, I reckon The ATOM wouldn't be too hard to fit into BMG either now they've broken the 150-Rep barrier a few times... Give us a few Flash characters as well; I want Cap Cold, Heatwave, King Shark, Grodd!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Compel wrote:


My thinking was less an issue of them finding things to sell us but more, are they going to find things in specific costumes and settings to sell us in sufficient volumes?
For example, comic fans might massively love the current 'Rocket Raccoon' model. Personally, I prefer the design of Movie Rocket. Therefore, if a Guardians box set comes out with comic Rocket, I'm then not going to be buying that and other primarily movie fans might not either. The inverse may be true as well. Therefore, though there are almost certainly sufficient 'Guardians of the Galaxy' fans to sustain the range, what if they're too split up into separate subgroups that won't fun group starter sets?

To be fair, there's nothing massively different about Rocket between the model and the movie version, so far as I can tell. With a lot of them, it's also a matter of what you can do with a simple alternate paintscheme; those X-men could be just as easily painted in the black/blue movie suits, paint a bit of stubble on Thor and you have the MCU version, do Drax in blue rather than green and you have the film version ect.

I can definitely see what you're saying, but with Batman they've already proven that when there are radically different versions of major characters, they are open to doing multiple versions. We're on what, 4 Jokers? 7 Batmen?

Which reminds me, can we get a proper Comic Bane, please, KM?

Alright, if we're talking about WISH lists... I want to see a Con marvel super heroes event where the players get to use one each of their pick of provided heroes... to fight Galactus as represented by a cosplayer in an elaborate outfit And I guess he would get silver surfer too, until he was coerced into switching sides as usual.

Somebody... DO IT

Paradigm wrote:

 carlos13th wrote:
Biggest thing I want from the batman game is more options for an Green Arrow team. So many free agents cant be used by Arrow team.

Interestingly, the Speedy/Red Arrow Roy Harper model has been erattad to Arsenal, so I wonder if we might be getting the current TV Thea Queen version of Speedy at some point in the not-too-distant future...

I'd buy the hell out of a more fleshed out Arrow line. Sara Black Canary, Thea Speedy, Diggle, I reckon The ATOM wouldn't be too hard to fit into BMG either now they've broken the 150-Rep barrier a few times... Give us a few Flash characters as well; I want Cap Cold, Heatwave, King Shark, Grodd!

Yeah I would buy the hell out of an arrow show line too. ATM all I have is speedy, Arrow and some cops.
It would be nice to have Cyborg available to them because I really like that model. Also I really hope I can use Speedy with Red Hood (Along with an eventual Starfire)

Which reminds me, can we get a proper Comic Bane, please, KM?

That would lead tme to purchase a third Bane. I am all for it.

 carlos13th wrote:
So lets start the wishlisting. What does everyone really want to see in marvel and batman ?

For BMG, I'll paste what i put in their "official" forums:

Grayson, Agent of Spyral
Mecha-Batman (James Gordon)
Bluebird
Duke Thomas
Cassandra Cain
Wildcat
Midnighter
Grifter
Voodoo
Zealot
The Question (either Sage or Montoya or the New 52 abomination)
Harvey Bullock (either from comics for Law or Gotham TV show for Law/Organized Crime)
Selina Kyle (Organized Crime Leader)
Man-Bat
Killer Moth
Bronze Tiger
Prometheus
Cheshire
Anarky (possibly own gang?)
Tigress (Gotham TV show)
Professor Pyg (probably would only work w/ own gang...)
Eduardo Flamingo
The Ventriloquist (male or female or both!)

For Marvel, while I have a ton of ideas, I won't be buying in to it, so I can't really come up w/ a wish-list. But there are a plethora of street level characters and X-characters I'd love to see if I ever did get into it...

For me I would like the following.

For BMG

Jim Gordon Robobatman
DKR Mecha Batman
Batman beyond batman
Azreal Batman
Comic Bane
Red Robin
Batwing
Dingle from arrow
Comic / arkham game Gordon
Red Robin
Miller Oliver queen. (One arm arrow)
Bullock

For Marvel
Old man Logan
Punisher in Body Armour
Punisher with covered eye from Warzone
Rachel Cole Alvarez
Winter Solider
Dr Strange
The Defenders
The ability to play Marvel Knights in the supers game
Nick Fury (Sam J and Original versions)
Hawkeye
Ronin
Gambit
Cable
Bridge and Shield Soliders

I definitely think we need more versions of Batman. While 7 Bruce Waynes is all well and good, I really want to see Gordon in the armour, Grayson Batman and Azreal-Bat, and Batman Beyond would be a really nice addition, maybe as a Sidekick, cheaper Batman that doesn't hit as hard but has amazing mobility from his Jetpack.

I agree we need more to flesh out the Miller line, Carrie Kelly Robin and some Sons of Batman would be awesome. Mutants too as generic Joker/Two-face Henchmen.


One thing I'd really like to see, maybe from KM but possibly as more of a community project, is supplements/expansions themed around major arcs, movies, games ect. Throw together half a dozen scenarios, a few alternate characters cards, some additional optional rules (vehicles, weather conditions, civilians, underground combat, larger games ect) and you could offer something really cool.

For example, you could do something based on the Arkham Origins storyline. Alternate cards for a young Joker, younger Gordon, a few different Henchmen profiles, a few scenarios that cover the big set pieces of the game's main story, some rules for fighting in snowy/icy conditions, put that all together and Bob's your Bat-uncle.

With so much source material out there, it really does baffle me that KM themselves haven't done anything like that; the game itself is inherently very cinematic/narrative or whatever you want to call it, but they could really take that to the next level with some more themed, source-based stuff, and so much of the work is already done for them.

Its a combination. While I partial think we already have too many Batmen the other half of me really wants other batmen. We didn't need origins batman sculpt because its too much like City batman an alternative card would have been better.

I would love to see greyson batman, I like the comics when greyson plays a very different kind of batman.

I would be all for scenerio packs. Either with no models or with one or two like the infinity Dire foes packs.

Back on the subject of Origins I am disappointed they went with the jacketed Bane instead of the unjacketed version.



to me that screams bane so much more than the version we have.

I need deadpool. Is there a deadpool yet? Should be. Then, I want deadpool and spiderman on my team. I dint care who else, probably attractive e female supers so pooly can make a bigger arse of himself.

There is a Deadpool, with the film so close I can't imagine the re-release of the mini with rules will be too far off.

@Carlos: I figure the reason they had Bane with his jacket on is to set him apart from just being a smaller version of the Arkham City version. I do really like the AO Bane, though, I think it has a real imposing presence without being too over-the-top. Of course, there is definitely a place for a completely mahoosive Bane as well, but the practical, down to earth version is really cool.

So all I need is the team rules to allow me to use deadpool and spidey both

I got a few new purchases today. - Arkham City Poison Ivy - Entirely because she's going poof soon. Blackgate Prisoners set 1, because having some more cheap villains seems kinda handy.
And, more impotantly, Jim Gordon and SWAT. The lack of these seemed to be a huge limiting factor in all my 'good aligned' forces.

So, I've been putting some random lists together as a result, just to see what sort of options I have opening up now.

Ra's Al Neeson, Nyssa, Deathstroke (origins). - For some reason, I thought I'd have more models than that in this group...
Ra's Al Neeson, Nyssa, Lotus, Ying, Yang, Seeker, Prisoner 02
- Trying to field Ra's and Nyssa together always ended up in loads of wasted points until now.


Gordon, Batgirl, Alpha, Bravo, Delta, Echo, Policeman, Policewoman, O'Connell. - I heard rumour of bosses not costing funding, can't find that anywhere though... (But then, I've oft lamented that a lot of Batman rules seem to be hidden in secret webpages). - If my opponent would let me though, I'd be able to replace the police woman with a detective...
Anyhow, 10 models is a lot of models in a Batman game I feel...
- I think Joker and Penguin lists commonly run at that, am I right?


I figured, since I had the models, I might as well see what I can do with an Organised Crime faction...
Commissioner Loeb, Alpha Swat, Bravo Swat, Prisoner 01, Prisoner 02, Turk, Riddler, Catwoman, a Detective (Bullock perhaps? ), 2 magazines and bribe.

Even though I don't intend on collecting a Poison Ivy gang, I figured, lets see what I can pull off...
Arkham City Poison Ivy, Deathstroke Origins, Catwoman, Prisoner 02, Turk.
- I imagine this list would be rather terribad, but hey...


I've played Two Face a few times and he was a little too gun heavy for my mates enjoyment, so I figured trying to go for something a little less gunny.
Two-Face, Riddler, Twoowt, Zwoowz, Rottor, Mottom, Puuoop, HS Henchmen, Prisoner 01, Prisoner 02, 2 bulletproof vests, 2 magazines, handcuffs (Maybe Bribe instead though?)


And finally, I was able to make up a Batman list a lot easier than I used to.
Arkham Knight Batman
Arkham Knight Robin
Detective - Whistle, Ammo (I hear a detective is always better than Agent Ron?)
O'Connell
Policeman
Policewoman
Alpha Swat (Whistle, Ammo)

There still doesn't seem to be a good choice of minis for a Green Arrow force though. - Gimmie my Diggle and White Canary!


In other news, I've given myself a challenge, I've to finish painting Superman before the end of next Friday's Geek And Sundry Group Hug show.


There's still a lot of way to go with him. To be honest, he was a subject of my "Compel tries liquid mask and experiments fully airbrushing a model smaller than an AT-ST" disaster and, in all honesty, I should really have detolled him and repainted him right from the beginning... Like I plan to do with AK Robin...

Working on Supes a bit more...



I think I'm happy with this blue - Vallejo model colour Prussian Blue as a final main blue colour for him. The thing I need to figure out next is what to highlight with. I was thinking enchanted blue, but someone pointed out to me that Enchanted blue (aka Magic blue aka Teclis Blue... I think), is a bit too vibrant a colour and maybe I should be looking at something more pastel-ey? I don't think Ultramarines blue is light enough for a highlight though? I do have Ice blue and baharroth blue for the final ones though, but I think that's too much of a jump...

Although, before I get overly concerned about highlighting, I should probably do the S and his belt. At least the skin seems ok enough that only edge highlights should be needed, right?


Also, I'm playing a Batman game at my gaming club on Tuesday! We're looking at going for maybe 250 points, 1000 rep, because I'm incredibly slow at playing the game.
Naturally of course, the first list I come up with, is 251 points, with 3 models... - Ra's, Nyssa and Lotus. I might need to work on that a bit more...

I think I can go for Nyssa, Talia, Yang, Ying, Seeker and giving seeker pretty much all the equipment. - Night vision goggles, magazine, trained in shadow, climbing claws. - May be a little bit over kill though

And marvel universe has arrived. 3 boxes and 3 blisters, tokens and template. Obviously more will follow