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i would love a man o' war redo for AOS.

"The points for the Adeptus Custodes and Orks now have updated points as their Codexes hit store shelves on Saturday. These might be different from what is printed in the books, so you can be sure they’re fully up to date with this latest balance update. "

Awesome, so that book you bought is now out of date before you even get it in your hands! Why even put points in the codex if this is going to be the case?

points in the codex are mostly a relic, but it's a way of ensuring that people who buy the codex can play even if they know nothing else about the game (and thus don't know to check the digital points) as well as people with spotty internet access, such as people in rural areas

there's a use case for it, and it's only like an extra page in the book, so i doubt it's much effort for GW to consider taking it out

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
"The points for the Adeptus Custodes and Orks now have updated points as their Codexes hit store shelves on Saturday. These might be different from what is printed in the books, so you can be sure they’re fully up to date with this latest balance update. "

Awesome, so that book you bought is now out of date before you even get it in your hands! Why even put points in the codex if this is going to be the case?

It's GW being victim of their own relentless constant updates. Begs the question is it worth it? I mean the perception of value of these very expensive products is eroded to a level you stop caring for them.

 NAVARRO wrote:

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
"The points for the Adeptus Custodes and Orks now have updated points as their Codexes hit store shelves on Saturday. These might be different from what is printed in the books, so you can be sure they’re fully up to date with this latest balance update. "

Awesome, so that book you bought is now out of date before you even get it in your hands! Why even put points in the codex if this is going to be the case?

It's GW being victim of their own relentless constant updates. Begs the question is it worth it? I mean the perception of value of these very expensive products is eroded to a level you stop caring for them.

Yep, I feel the same.

I stopped buying any GW rulebooks when I realised that the points would be outdated pretty quickly, never mind how quickly new editions come round these days.

I understand that GW is trying to cater for the tournament crowd with these frequent points updates and balance patches, but it turns me off completely

Nah, balance and points updates are okay and would help the game even more if
a) GW didn't set everything to zero faster than you can build an army
b) wouldn't put Digital rules behind two paywalls.

I don't think GW are even catering to the tournament crowd with the fast updates - I think its more they found a way to sell more books in less timeframe whilst each book generates revenue for them.


As Cortez says these kind of updates would be fine if GW wasn't rebuilding the game every 3 years which means the system is only just getting to settle before its all change. That's a huge reason there's burnout.

Add into that the fact that during those 3 years GW will introduce new rules, expansions and more and suddenly you've got a game that's in a constant state of flux. that's annoying in itself but when every change to that flux comes with a cost

The lag on printing physical books makes Codex points completely impractical. They're good to have as an option but they were almost certainly locked in and sent to the printer before the September errata. There's just no way the game can hold itself to that kind of lag.

The good news is GW has started getting fairly reliable to where the MFM can serve as a real source of truth. There's not much question as to what points to play as the answer is just always the MFM. The only real lingering issue is the box set codex pre-releases not getting their points until the official release.

 NAVARRO wrote:

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
"The points for the Adeptus Custodes and Orks now have updated points as their Codexes hit store shelves on Saturday. These might be different from what is printed in the books, so you can be sure they’re fully up to date with this latest balance update. "

Awesome, so that book you bought is now out of date before you even get it in your hands! Why even put points in the codex if this is going to be the case?

It's GW being victim of their own relentless constant updates. Begs the question is it worth it? I mean the perception of value of these very expensive products is eroded to a level you stop caring for them.

go back in time and play 3 - 7 when they did not update anything and units were broken forever or crap forever. So yes WORTH IT

There is a middle ground, here, but GW only does things at the extreme ends of the pendulum.

 xeen wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
"The points for the Adeptus Custodes and Orks now have updated points as their Codexes hit store shelves on Saturday. These might be different from what is printed in the books, so you can be sure they’re fully up to date with this latest balance update. "

Awesome, so that book you bought is now out of date before you even get it in your hands! Why even put points in the codex if this is going to be the case?

It's GW being victim of their own relentless constant updates. Begs the question is it worth it? I mean the perception of value of these very expensive products is eroded to a level you stop caring for them.

go back in time and play 3 - 7 when they did not update anything and units were broken forever or crap forever. So yes WORTH IT

Good for you. At the end of the day depends what you are looking for. A beer and pretzels game that knows its just exactly that or a beer and pretzels game that pretends its something else just to charge more for the same in smaller time gaps.

That's dead handy, thanks Nevelon.


I could use some Kommandos for my 2nd ed Orks. How much do you think they'll want for six, 30-40 quid?

 xeen wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
"The points for the Adeptus Custodes and Orks now have updated points as their Codexes hit store shelves on Saturday. These might be different from what is printed in the books, so you can be sure they’re fully up to date with this latest balance update. "

Awesome, so that book you bought is now out of date before you even get it in your hands! Why even put points in the codex if this is going to be the case?

It's GW being victim of their own relentless constant updates. Begs the question is it worth it? I mean the perception of value of these very expensive products is eroded to a level you stop caring for them.

go back in time and play 3 - 7 when they did not update anything and units were broken forever or crap forever. So yes WORTH IT

I'd take my 3.5 Chaos codex and my 4th ed Dark Eldar codex ahead of anything produced in today's 40k, thank you very much

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 xeen wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
"The points for the Adeptus Custodes and Orks now have updated points as their Codexes hit store shelves on Saturday. These might be different from what is printed in the books, so you can be sure they’re fully up to date with this latest balance update. "

Awesome, so that book you bought is now out of date before you even get it in your hands! Why even put points in the codex if this is going to be the case?

It's GW being victim of their own relentless constant updates. Begs the question is it worth it? I mean the perception of value of these very expensive products is eroded to a level you stop caring for them.

go back in time and play 3 - 7 when they did not update anything and units were broken forever or crap forever. So yes WORTH IT

I'd take my 3.5 Chaos codex and my 4th ed Dark Eldar codex ahead of anything produced in today's 40k, thank you very much

Yea because both of those were good. How about you take the 4th edition CSM, in 5th edition and play it for years and let me know how you feel about updates then

 xeen wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 xeen wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
"The points for the Adeptus Custodes and Orks now have updated points as their Codexes hit store shelves on Saturday. These might be different from what is printed in the books, so you can be sure they’re fully up to date with this latest balance update. "

Awesome, so that book you bought is now out of date before you even get it in your hands! Why even put points in the codex if this is going to be the case?

It's GW being victim of their own relentless constant updates. Begs the question is it worth it? I mean the perception of value of these very expensive products is eroded to a level you stop caring for them.

go back in time and play 3 - 7 when they did not update anything and units were broken forever or crap forever. So yes WORTH IT

I'd take my 3.5 Chaos codex and my 4th ed Dark Eldar codex ahead of anything produced in today's 40k, thank you very much

Yea because both of those were good. How about you take the 4th edition CSM, in 5th edition and play it for years and let me know how you feel about updates then

No, the 3.5 codex wasn't well balanced, so by your own standards how can you agree that it was good?

*********

I think there will always be a hobby divide between people who are more into modelling and painting versus people who see winning a game as being the most important aspect of the hobby.

Good as-in strong was what was meant, I think.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Good as-in strong was what was meant, I think.

Same way when people say a codex is "trash" they usually mean under powered.

 xeen wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
"The points for the Adeptus Custodes and Orks now have updated points as their Codexes hit store shelves on Saturday. These might be different from what is printed in the books, so you can be sure they’re fully up to date with this latest balance update. "

Awesome, so that book you bought is now out of date before you even get it in your hands! Why even put points in the codex if this is going to be the case?

It's GW being victim of their own relentless constant updates. Begs the question is it worth it? I mean the perception of value of these very expensive products is eroded to a level you stop caring for them.

go back in time and play 3 - 7 when they did not update anything and units were broken forever or crap forever. So yes WORTH IT

In them days you could even got a whole edition and not get new rules. Sisters of Battle and Dark Eldar both went through phases of missing out whole editions.

I also recall at least once when Tyranids got their edition FAQ on the week or month where GW released a new edition.

So yeah you got your FAQ then the whole game changed


I agree with the others - there's a middle ground but GW has yet to learn that. They've swung from almost no updates to an insane speed of updates and books. At SOME point I hope they swing back a little.

 Overread wrote:

I agree with the others - there's a middle ground but GW has yet to learn that. They've swung from almost no updates to an insane speed of updates and books. At SOME point I hope they swing back a little.

Eh, the early edition was nuts because it was essentially an alpha/beta test for new unproven rules, and GW had to immediately break their own update schedule. I think they're settling on the middle ground now.

They're going back to more tolerable tempo of rules changes every six months. We'll see individual codex releases at a steady pace until all factions are updated towards the middle of next year. Codexes generally haven't been as much of a massive leap over the index rules compared to previous editions, definitely evolution over revolution. This edition also hasn't seen too much in the way of codex FAQs shortly after release, and certainly not to the same degree as 9th when those could appear unannounced and completely change how an army functions via pages of semi-random errata.

Honestly, the only way to square this circle from a user-friendly perspective is to have a living ruleset of free-to-access rules that update regularly.

GW doesn't do this because the book mill is currently profitable (and will remain so unless they burn out their customer base). They look to have settled on a 3-year cycle for this.

 xttz wrote:

 Overread wrote:

I agree with the others - there's a middle ground but GW has yet to learn that. They've swung from almost no updates to an insane speed of updates and books. At SOME point I hope they swing back a little.

Eh, the early edition was nuts because it was essentially an alpha/beta test for new unproven rules, and GW had to immediately break their own update schedule.

But that's bad. They're having to do so many updates because the put out a shoddy product to begin with because they're releasing a new version of the rules every 3 years. Yes, not every release is as major as 10th was, but GW shouldn't put out a product that's so poorly realized and we shouldn't let them get away with it just because they have the ability to "fix" it with these updates.

If they spent more time testing the game before releasing it or before releasing supplements (which is what codecies basically are), they wouldn't need to put out so much errata.

spending more time on testing does not work if the product is obsolete within a short time, it is wasted money
spending more time in testing if it does not affect sales is wasted money

add in that minor changes to the core rules cause major imbalance in points and balance on the units, something that is impossible to be foreseen without extensive testing which cannot be done as by the first 2 points


that the point costs from the printed book are obsolete on release is a different thing as this just means the books were written for a different game and are made backwards compatible on release to fit the outdated lists still out there instead adapting the older lists to the new points of the books

Still can't stand the way points are handled in 10th. I hope they reintroduce more granularity in 11th...

 Marshal Loss wrote:
Still can't stand the way points are handled in 10th. I hope they reintroduce more granularity in 11th...

Gear, model count/size or both?

If they follow through on making weapons or loadouts have a form of parity then I've no issues on the gear front, but I do miss being able to shove a guy in to use up the last few points.

I feel like GW grew on multi-part models with units having lots of weapon types because GW could only make a few models per faction.

Eg Tyranids had Warriors and Carnifex who basically covered every role for middle and heavy units on one model. You give them close combat weapons and upgrades and they are your close combat; you give them ranged artillery or anti tank/infantry and they take up gunnery roles.


Over time GW has expanded the armies more and more and I think a thought that's coming through for htem is they want to keep expanding armies. They know that if they add a new faction (eg squats) they will get new fans and new breathing space with the new army; but existing fans of X army still want models for that army.


So if GW takes away lots of multi-weapon options that creates gaps. Gaps GW can fill with a new model type. The benefit here is GW gets to make and release a model and that model won't step on the toes of other models in the army.
The downside is we lose modular multi-weapon option models and we see choices being cut down steadily.

Of course in typical GW fashion I think they got an idea for 10th and hten went overboard. Plus its veyr clear that someone at GW wanted power-levels to be the way the game was built and just forced it through this edition (because we basically have powerlevels just with points)

 Overread wrote:

So if GW takes away lots of multi-weapon options that creates gaps. Gaps GW can fill with a new model type. The benefit here is GW gets to make and release a model and that model won't step on the toes of other models in the army.
The downside is we lose modular multi-weapon option models and we see choices being cut down steadily.

Also if a single kit builds for multiple roles people can just magnetize it and switch to whatever they need right now which means GW only sells one kit.
If you need two or more kits for the different roles GW also sells two or more kits so more money.

Of course not everybody will buy more kits. You can still use the old versions if its a refresh or proxy something else for it but in the end even if not everybody buys every version GW will sell more if every kit is limited in what it can do instead of being able to magnetize it to whatever you want it to do

Kroot Detachment https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/26/the-tau-empire-evolves-its-epicurean-auxiliaries-with-a-tasty-new-kroot-detachment/

 Matrindur wrote:

 Overread wrote:

So if GW takes away lots of multi-weapon options that creates gaps. Gaps GW can fill with a new model type. The benefit here is GW gets to make and release a model and that model won't step on the toes of other models in the army.
The downside is we lose modular multi-weapon option models and we see choices being cut down steadily.

Also if a single kit builds for multiple roles people can just magnetize it and switch to whatever they need right now which means GW only sells one kit.
If you need two or more kits for the different roles GW also sells two or more kits so more money.

Of course not everybody will buy more kits. You can still use the old versions if its a refresh or proxy something else for it but in the end even if not everybody buys every version GW will sell more if every kit is limited in what it can do instead of being able to magnetize it to whatever you want it to do

Well, there is Horus Heresy and/or Necromunda that have its own MO in having rules for many different options, points to account for the options and even sell generous upgrade boxes with weapons enought to equip 2 or 3 full units. So there is different ways for GW to do this, and obviously like to try different methods for different games.

 Fayric wrote:

 Matrindur wrote:

 Overread wrote:

So if GW takes away lots of multi-weapon options that creates gaps. Gaps GW can fill with a new model type. The benefit here is GW gets to make and release a model and that model won't step on the toes of other models in the army.
The downside is we lose modular multi-weapon option models and we see choices being cut down steadily.

Also if a single kit builds for multiple roles people can just magnetize it and switch to whatever they need right now which means GW only sells one kit.
If you need two or more kits for the different roles GW also sells two or more kits so more money.

Of course not everybody will buy more kits. You can still use the old versions if its a refresh or proxy something else for it but in the end even if not everybody buys every version GW will sell more if every kit is limited in what it can do instead of being able to magnetize it to whatever you want it to do

Well, there is Horus Heresy and/or Necromunda that have its own MO in having rules for many different options, points to account for the options and even sell generous upgrade boxes with weapons enought to equip 2 or 3 full units. So there is different ways for GW to do this, and obviously like to try different methods for different games.

and in that sense, if we're looking at GW's other games, 10th40k is more akin to AOS than it is HH or munda (which is why it's not something i take issue with, even if the execution has been mixed so far)

Potential leak/accidental release of a new Warp Spider kit:




https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/1ce17y9/a_friend_ordered_some_warp_spiders_a_week_ago/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button