Release Schedule Rumors and 6th Edition Detail Rumors- OP updated 6/12

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**His Master's Voice**

sennacherib wrote:the rest of it i am impartial on except that i think anything that motivates TFG list building minmaxers into getting out of the hobby is a good thing.

You are entitled to your opinion. Your opinion however, is pretty damn silly, to put it mildly.

**KarlPedder**

azazel the cat wrote:Has anyone ever noticed that the Night Scythe carries the Aerial Assault rule, which allows the vehicle to move at cruising speed and still fire all of its weapons?
But the Night Scythe already has the Fast special rule.
And the Night Scythe only has one weapon to begin with.

Anyone care to speculate on how this may affect changes to what the Fast USR means in 6th Ed.?

I think it's quite possible that instead of there being an actual "flyer" unit type in 6th that instead they will make backhanded use of rules that several flyer units already have in their unit entries. The example I've used before is that it would be very easy for instance to state in the core rules that while fast skimmers that move flat out get a 4+ cover save, fast skimmers with the "supersonic" rule instead get a 3+ cover save.

Of course it could simply be for a sense of cohesion since the Nigthscythe and Doomscythe are the same vehicles just with different weapon loadouts while superflous because of only having 1 weapon in the case of the NS it is just given it for this cohesiveness.

**Blackgaze**

I'm partly disappointed about the allies rules. I've wanted to use Assassins in my Imperial Guard army for so long...

But if Deamons are being removed from the new Chaos Space Marine codex, then deamons & chaos will no longer be one army?

I hope there are some unit limits or more to this...

**DarthOvious**

davethepak wrote:
Beast of Nurgle wrote:You know they REALLY should just drop FNP now.. they've gutted the rule to the point of uselessness IF the rumors are true..

My necrons have no sympathy for your guys with a 3+ save getting FNP reduced to 5+...

Actually, FNP needed a nerf, it was being handed out like candy (well, if not like candy, like invul saves for marines).

So says the guy with a 4+ Reanimation protocol save that can even be taken against ID & power weapons.

**Crazyterran**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:The Vehicle bit, with giving them WS, seems weird too. Unless they are removing the current system of hitting vehicles in close combat, which means, if they are stationary, they are automatically hit (like now) or, no matter how far they move, they are hit on a 3+. Seems a tad easy to hit a vehicle that's moving at full speed, for example. And the reasoning that people 'forget' how fast vehicles move and if they are able to fire is silly, to me

WS10 seems more likely than WS1. I'm also hoping the to hit in CC chart adds in 2+ and 6 as values, which would make very high and very low WS values have more meaning. If that happens, a moving vehicle at WS10 would require 6s to hit for anything less than say WS7.

All vehicles being able to move 6" and fire everything will make them far more mobile. If it is 6" during the move phase, then there seems to be three options for vehicles. Not move and shoot everything, move up to 6" more and shoot one weapon (all weapons if fast), or Flat out and move 18" more (for skimmers)

Both those abilities would help make up for the increased vulnerability that Hull points seem to bring to vehicles.

Honestly, I'm fine with the way the vehicle hit chart is now. Though, I suppose if it makes it WS10, that'd be fine. Even if they don't change it to 2+ / 6+.

Though, the ability to only move 6" and shoot is going to hurt my Landspeeders just a tad. :(

And how will Hull points work? I figured they where going to be the same as how they work for Baneblades, or whatever, and all vehicles will suffer hull point damage if it gets what is now a 'wrecked' or 'exploded' result. Guess it depends on how many hull points there are.

**oldone**

Really right now we don't know much about the rules, by the looks of things the tweaked a lot of areas( see charges) and drastically change overs(see psychic powers) but what i want to know is whether if charging through terrian will reduce your I or increase your foes I or if it will do something completely differently like a dangerous terrian check and thats it as this would make genestealers #1 at assault again as the should be

.

**Lepuke**

KarlPedder wrote:
azazel the cat wrote:Has anyone ever noticed that the Night Scythe carries the Aerial Assault rule, which allows the vehicle to move at cruising speed and still fire all of its weapons?
But the Night Scythe already has the Fast special rule.
And the Night Scythe only has one weapon to begin with.

Anyone care to speculate on how this may affect changes to what the Fast USR means in 6th Ed.?

I think it's quite possible that instead of there being an actual "flyer" unit type in 6th that instead they will make backhanded use of rules that several flyer units already have in their unit entries. The example I've used before is that it would be very easy for instance to state in the core rules that while fast skimmers that move flat out get a 4+ cover save, fast skimmers with the "supersonic" rule instead get a 3+ cover save.

Of course it could simply be for a sense of cohesion since the Nigthscythe and Doomscythe are the same vehicles just with different weapon loadouts while superflous because of only having 1 weapon in the case of the NS it is just given it for this cohesiveness.

The flyer rules in the "pancake" edition used the supersonic rule to allow the unit to change its type to flyer for a turn where it could basically spot an attack vector then leave the table to fly back on along this vector doing a bombing/strafing run.

**tuebor**

Darnok just posted these on Warseer:

Warhammer 40,000: Rulebook, £45 wrote:There is no time for peace. No respite. No forgiveness.

There is only WAR.

In the nightmare future of the 41st Millennium, Mankind teeters upon the brink of destruction. The galaxy-spanning Imperium of Man is beset on all sides by ravening aliens and threatened from within by Warp-spawned entities and heretical plots. Only the strength of the immortal Emperor of Terra stands between humanity and its annihilation, and in his name, countless warriors and agents do battle against the encroaching darkness. Foremost amongst them stand the Space Marines, the ultimate protectors of Mankind.

Across airless moons, within the depths of dark, twisted hive worlds and even in the immaterial realm of Warp space, battles rage that will shape the future of the galaxy forever.
It is a universe that you can enter today, if you dare. But remember that this is a dark and terrible era, and there is no peace amongst the stars...

The Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook is your essential guide to playing atmospheric battles in the 41st Millennium. It helps you field majestic armies of Citadel miniatures across the war-ravaged battlefields of the far-future, in the ultimate contest of strategy and skill.

With 440 full-colour pages, this hardback Rulebook is packed with rich background and contains all the rules for fighting pulse-pounding tabletop battles. The Rulebook includes exciting features such as dynamic close-combat, flyers, psychic devastation and interactive scenery. As well as jaw-dropping artwork, contained within is a history of the 41st Millennium and a richly detailed guide to the races and weapons of the far-future. It also features a comprehensive hobby section to set you on the path to choosing, collecting and building your own Warhammer 40,000 army of Citadel miniatures.

Warhammer 40,000: Psychic Powers, £8 wrote:One of the many exciting features of Warhammer 40,000 is Psychic devastation, where Psykers wreak havoc on the battlefield. Psychic Powers is the complete set of Psychic cards, which be used in conjunction with Psychic Disciplines. They make a great accessory to your tabletop games.

This set contains 35 large-format cards and come stored in a plastic fan-opening case, which bears the Aquila. There are 7 cards for each Psychic Discipline, each of which is represented by distinct artwork. There is also an instruction leaflet that classifies which powers can be used by the main Psykers in the Warhammer 40,000 universe.

Darnok wrote:There are also "Munitorum Templates" (£12, designed with a metal effect look), "Munitorum Tape Measure" (£10, looking like a Servoskull) and "Munitorum Dice" (£10, while stocks last).

On advance order on 23th, available from 30th of June.

**darrkespur**

£45 is a ridiculous price. I know that it will be that as that's what the Warhammer book is, but it's still utterly ridiculous.

**Azreal13**

darrkespur wrote:£45 is a ridiculous price. I know that it will be that as that's what the Warhammer book is, but it's still utterly ridiculous.

I'd actually disagree with you there, while there is no arguing that it's expensive, assuming it is full colour, over 400 pages and hardback as mentioned, it is only a bit more expensive than you would pay for a similar "coffee table" art book in Waterstones or wherever, they comfortably fall within the £30-£40 bracket.

**muwhe**

Confirmation that "Interactive scenery" shows up in 40K. As expected I guess.

**Eiríkr**

For a full colour hardback, £45 is more than reasonable. Take a look in Waterstones sometime, darrkespur, your jaw will be left open at the cost of some hardback books with minimal content.

**terranarc**

Warhammer 40,000: Psychic Powers, £8 wrote:One of the many exciting features of Warhammer 40,000 is Psychic devastation, where Psykers wreak havoc on the battlefield. Psychic Powers is the complete set of Psychic cards, which be used in conjunction with Psychic Disciplines. They make a great accessory to your tabletop games.

This set contains 35 large-format cards and come stored in a plastic fan-opening case, which bears the Aquila. There are 7 cards for each Psychic Discipline, each of which is represented by distinct artwork. There is also an instruction leaflet that classifies which powers can be used by the main Psykers in the Warhammer 40,000 universe.

So THATS why they have random psychic powers. Wow I can't believe no one guessed that.
The entire thing was a plan to sell psychic power cards.

**Kroothawk**

Book will be 60€.

**English Assassin**

muwhe wrote:Confirmation that "Interactive scenery" shows up in 40K. As expected I guess.

Having been playing (and enjoying) Malifaux lately, that was something I had been hoping for.

Unless, of course, GW take "interactive scenery" to mean things like arcane fulcrums. In which case I'll be rather less pleased.

Otherwise, £45 is acceptable, if a bit steep, given that DC's "Absolute" editions cost around the same amount for larger leaves, higher page counts and more colour. (I realise that they don't have comparable development costs to a wargame, but still, I might have hoped to see the main rulebook treated as a loss leader.)

**Sidstyler**

Oh FFS, so now, just like WHF, there's going to be a broken 40k "magic phase" where you can wipe out half a guy's army with a lucky roll? And just like I predicted the rulebook is gonna cost the same as the WHF rulebook.

Not liking the sound of things at all, this is not the direction 40k needs to go in: even more insanely expensive, and with more random bs.

**tetrisphreak**

Chill, sidstyler. We don't know for sure psykers will break the game - plus getting in cc and challenging one seems a pretty easy way to kill them.

10 days until white dwarf, 17 until release day! Woo!

**lord_blackfang**

Sidstyler wrote:Oh FFS, so now, just like WHF, there's going to be a broken 40k "magic phase" where you can wipe out half a guy's army with a lucky roll?

Wow, you inferred all that just from the existence of a psychic card pack? You must be alpha++ level yourself

**muwhe**

Having been playing (and enjoying) Malifaux lately, that was something I had been hoping for.

Well my viewpoint is a bit skewed. Certainly "interactive terrain rules" can add something to the gaming experience.

They are just difficult to account for from an event / tournament standpoint especially when you already have a couple hundred gaming tables. : )

Every edition has called for some revamp of the terrain this one will be no different.

**ThirdUltra**

So it look's like we're back to psychic card/dice-dueling ala 2nd edition again?

Interesting. Does anybody know if this is going to be in a separate phase (psychic phase) or if it is relevant to what power is being used at the time (shooting, assault, start-of-turn/movement, etc)?

**wuestenfux**

the remove the closest model sounds like a lot of arguing about who is closest and the like. probably slowing the game down as a result.

In 5th ed, the rules allowed to take away the models who are far away or lack behind. This has all been justified. Now they need to bring up a new justification.

**Praxiss**

I'm hoping that if Psyers are the new go-to unit, that the new rules will have some sort of roll to dispel included.

not all races have psykers after all (necrons for sure, unsure about any of the other armies tbh).

if the rumour abotu RF guns being able to move and fire at full range what will Relentless mean? maybe allow the unit to fire twice at full range while on the move? or maybe just allwo you to charge after shooting (in which case, the Phearon upgrade for 'crons just became a lot less appealing).

**tetrisphreak**

More pancake style rumors are cropping up. These are from war seer.

Originally Posted by Darnok These come from a birdy, but I'd advise on heavy
NaCl-usage... AP are on ccw but he says power weapons are ap
2, not 3.
When you charge it's double your move, infantry
move 6, bikes 8 cav 7 etc.
It's move assault then shooting now!
Fnp is 5+. Master crafted ccw give you a 5+ invuln save
When you shoot you roll to hit depending on the
speed of your target. Fast vehicles you always need
a 6.
A unit can't claim a object while inside a vehicle.
There's new kinds of instance death. If your say strengh 8 vs a space marine captain toughness 4
you only do 2 wounds! Strengh (9?) or more would do 3
wounds & kill him.
In kill point missions you get kill points based on
what the units points cost, so for example a
landraider would be worth 5 kill points & a unit of marines 3pts.

I'm going to reiterate that the Pancake playtest is closer to our final document than GW would admit.

**Flashman**

tetrisphreak wrote:Chill, sidstyler. We don't know for sure psykers will break the game - plus getting in cc and challenging one seems a pretty easy way to kill them

You have come across Hive Tyrants, no?

I'm intrigued to see who is going to be able to access these psychic disciplines given that Necrons, Dark Eldar, Tau, Black Templars have no psykers AND whether the pyschic disciplines will eclipse the existing powers of races that do have psychers.

My bet (and worry) is that they'll be unlocked by some piece of wargear that everyone has access to. Welcome to 40K Storm of Magic folks

**htj**

Oo, more rumours mentioning the 5+ FNP. This bodes ill for my Dark Eldar.

**obsidianaura**

htj wrote:Oo, more rumours mentioning the 5+ FNP. This bodes ill for my Dark Eldar.

DE have no psykers either.

I wonder if the aerial assault rule will let us move after shooting. That would probably make them overpowered. It'd be like the old Eldar crystal targetting matrix.

**Sidstyler**

Zweischneid wrote:Honestly, every bit of extra randomness in the system will increase the reliance on player skill and boost overall balance by reducing the impact of list building and occassionally off-key rules and power (e.g. JoTWW).

You and I have vastly different ideas about what constitutes "player skill"...

In my mind, a skill is something you can learn, and become more proficient at with more time spent playing the game. For example: deploying your army properly, setting up fire lanes, how to best take advantage of terrain when moving up the board, etc. Rolling big numbers is not a "skill", it's plain dumb luck.

I dunno, maybe someone could explain to me how "more randomness = more skill", because I simply don't see it. The more random the game is the more skill it takes away, not the other way around.

**htj**

obsidianaura wrote:
htj wrote:Oo, more rumours mentioning the 5+ FNP. This bodes ill for my Dark Eldar.

DE have no psykers either.

I wonder if the aerial assault rule will let us move after shooting. That would probably make them overpowered. It'd be like the old Eldar crystal targetting matrix.

I wouldn't count on it. As you say, it'd really push them into broken territory. I'd be interested to see if the non-psyker races get some kind of equivalent psychic defence stuff. Kinda like Dwarves and magic in fantasy.

**Therion**

My bet (and worry) is that they'll be unlocked by some piece of wargear that everyone has access to. Welcome to 40K Storm of Magic folks

Considering GW has always thought that massive templates that autokill everything underneath and often cannot be prevented in any way (reference: FB magic, 40K apocalypse, 20 years of GW games) is synonymous to fun, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if they managed to ruin 40K entirely with the psychic devastation (tm).

In my mind, a skill is something you can learn, and become more proficient at with more time spent playing the game

In my opinion the closest that GW games got to actual skill was when you managed to bait your opponent into a trap (either by playing mind games or just maneouvring to make it happen) and flank or rear charge his elite units to death with much inferior units in the previous edition of FB. You really did something on your own when your 150 point unit destroyed a 300 point unit and a 350 point hero with no casualties. Then of course GW thought that it's much more fun that you can never be sure how far your own units will be able to charge and that your opponent's slowest units will sometimes outcharge your fastest units, and that a flank or a rear charge shouldn't be as unforgiving as before. They also clearly thought that movement spells (which make enemy plans hard to predict) and other subtle magic isn't nearly as fun as black holes of doom that win you the game automatically if you get lucky.

When a game ends and a player has won, GW wants the players to laugh and joke about 'that triple six' Joe rolled at that crucial moment which won him the game against all odds, instead of Bob's donkey-like misuse of units and strategic incompetence.

**Alpharius**

Sidstyler wrote:
Zweischneid wrote:Honestly, every bit of extra randomness in the system will increase the reliance on player skill and boost overall balance by reducing the impact of list building and occassionally off-key rules and power (e.g. JoTWW).

You and I have vastly different ideas about what constitutes "player skill"...

In my mind, a skill is something you can learn, and become more proficient at with more time spent playing the game. For example: deploying your army properly, setting up fire lanes, how to best take advantage of terrain when moving up the board, etc. Rolling big numbers is not a "skill", it's plain dumb luck.

I dunno, maybe someone could explain to me how "more randomness = more skill", because I simply don't see it. The more random the game is the more skill it takes away, not the other way around.

The theory might be that the less you can 'count on' the more you'll have to be able to deal with using your 'tactical genius' and if you can't, then...

But I'm with you - I'm not a big believer of that, or of wanting more randomness in 40K.