Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I would guess so as there is no caveat or maximum number of precision allocation shots you get as a character. it just says for each 6 you roll to hit.

Flavius Infernus wrote:Here's an interesting question.

Suppose you take a unit of vibrocannons and add a warlock and have the warlock man one of the guns (which is a good idea anyway to get the BS4 on that die roll) and suppose you fire the battery at some infantry units and the warlock's to-hit die comes up a 6.

Do you get to (precision strike) allocate the wounds from all d6 wounds scored on every unit hit by the vibrocannon battery?

Lol this idea is great. If it works I can see the opponent going uhhh what?

Got a game a couple days ago. i posted some of my observations at Aspects of the Void.

Razgriz22 wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote:Here's an interesting question.

Suppose you take a unit of vibrocannons and add a warlock and have the warlock man one of the guns (which is a good idea anyway to get the BS4 on that die roll) and suppose you fire the battery at some infantry units and the warlock's to-hit die comes up a 6.

Do you get to (precision strike) allocate the wounds from all d6 wounds scored on every unit hit by the vibrocannon battery?

Lol this idea is great. If it works I can see the opponent going uhhh what?

I see them mostly not caring about a d6 AP- hits. Maybe they'll say something like "wow, that almost made all the points you spent on that unit worth it, almost".

Sometimes, the player has the choice of adding leaders or additional rnodels to the crew of an Artillery unit. These models are part of the crew in all respects and can operate the guns as normal, even if they are otherwise slightly different from the rest of the crew.

Independent Characters that join the unit, however, do not count as crew and cannot operate the guns.

BRB P.46


Also,

Note that Snap Shots and shots from weapons that scatter, or do not roll To Hit, can never be Precision Shots.

BRB P.63



Seems like it's allowed on all counts.

Something to keep in mind with Vibrocannons..

When reading the entry it's pretty clear that a battery of three vibrocannons can only glance a vehicle once per shooting attempt, much like how each successive hit vs infantry adds extra S but not extra wounds.

Seeing a decent amount of poo-pooing on the vibrocannons today. I think a unit of 2 with a warlock could be a pretty great addition if you have a heavy slot to spare. With that set up you have a pretty good chance to hit, and don't forget that you can hide it out of line of sight, making it impossible to shoot, and, in the new edition, impossible to charge. This set up comes to 125pts.

If you set it far enough to one side you can even draw the line to cover multiple vehicles/units in one shot.. I suspect that now that immobilized results no longer destroy a vehicle in a squadron, you're going to see a lot more of those as well.. in theory a vibrocannon is a great tool against a pack of tanks in a squadron.

You also have a pretty cool way to ace that vehicle that's hobbling along with a single hull point left... instead of chancing for a high penetration roll, you can use your spare scatter lasers to dish out some wounds on infantry and allow the vibrocannon to execute it.

Falconlance wrote:Seeing a decent amount of poo-pooing on the vibrocannons today. I think a unit of 2 with a warlock could be a pretty great addition if you have a heavy slot to spare. With that set up you have a pretty good chance to hit, and don't forget that you can hide it out of line of sight, making it impossible to shoot, and, in the new edition, impossible to charge. This set up comes to 125pts.

If you set it far enough to one side you can even draw the line to cover multiple vehicles/units in one shot.. I suspect that now that immobilized results no longer destroy a vehicle in a squadron, you're going to see a lot more of those as well.. in theory a vibrocannon is a great tool against a pack of tanks in a squadron.

You also have a pretty cool way to ace that vehicle that's hobbling along with a single hull point left... instead of chancing for a high penetration roll, you can use your spare scatter lasers to dish out some wounds on infantry and allow the vibrocannon to execute it.

I agree, I was just pointing out it's a single glance. There's three things I don't like about the vibrocannon.

1) It's expensive in cash. It's 25$ for a single vibrocannon and two guardians. You still have to find a warlock as well. So assuming you buy the 40$ box with 4 warlocks, It's about 60$ per vibrocannon squad with 2 guns and a warlock. And it's actually hard to find them used considering how crappy they were before. No one bought em.

2) For the same points, I could have another Fire Prism. I used a couple of them in tandem today, and I was still pleased with them being able to shoot pretty much until they were dead. (Note, @2000 points when heavy slots become plentiful I don't think it's a big deal. Thats probably the only time I would take them)

3) Glances are a double edged sword. They still allow full-on function of the enemy. So while a VC emplacement is great for hitting a couple vehicles and knocking out that last HP, they won't reduce enemy effectiveness unless they score a kill.

Early on I considered running 18 of the buggers.. that was before I learned they capped at 1 glance per encampment. Now I think I'd be okay with 2-4 Fire Prisms and 2-4 125 point emplacements.

Haha, can't argue about the models themselves being expensive.. and actually they aren't even table legal. They are supposed to have a gun model and two guardian models; the new kit has a gun model with a guardian atop, and a single guardian model.

Falconlance wrote:Haha, can't argue about the models themselves being expensive.. and actually they aren't even table legal. They are supposed to have a gun model and two guardian models; the new kit has a gun model with a guardian atop, and a single guardian model.

The model doesn't even seem to come with ammo crates or anything to take the position of the 2nd gunner.
Will have to build something if I ever get any.

As for artillery Warlocks, what's the best power to give them?

Skinnereal wrote:

As for artillery Warlocks, what's the best power to give them?

I've played around with giving the warlock conceal. But embolden is probably best, both because it's cheap and because they're only Ld8 and the units are often hugging a table edge. Keeping them out of LoS is the best defense.

But think about how tough a support battery is. A battery of 2 guns is a T7, 9-wound (with a warlock) 3+ save unit that can get cover easier than a monstrous creature. Three guns is 13 wounds. They would dissolve to assault, but very hard to displace from cover with shooting alone.

A couple of 2 or 3 gun batteries of d-cannons (with the whole template now counting as str10) in cover near the center of the table would be pretty scary.

I was under the impression that D-Cannons were strength X, and followed the same anti armor rules as wraithcannons?

Falconlance wrote:I was under the impression that D-Cannons were strength X, and followed the same anti armor rules as wraithcannons?

True. However, as said by Flavius, these cannons need to deployed closer to the enemy due to their lower range. Then it might be difficult to hide them completely.

Falconlance wrote:I was under the impression that D-Cannons were strength X, and followed the same anti armor rules as wraithcannons?

Whoops, shows you how long it's been since I used d-cannons. IIRC it was 3rd edition when they were Str10.

On the plus side, that means I bought my support weapons back when they came in a $12 blister

Well, I read Stelek's comments on the new Eldar. He's pretty much right. Eldar is almost dead. The buffs do not balance the nerfs.

Stelek is hardly a reliable source. How many games has he played with Eldar in 6th?

I assume he's too busy theorycrafting articles on every army out there to actually get much play time in.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, I read Stelek's comments on the new Eldar. He's pretty much right. Eldar is almost dead. The buffs do not balance the nerfs.

I do not believe this. Will Eldar be winning every tournament? No. But they are far from dead or unplayable.

Razgriz22 wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Well, I read Stelek's comments on the new Eldar. He's pretty much right. Eldar is almost dead. The buffs do not balance the nerfs.

I do not believe this. Will Eldar be winning every tournament? No. But they are far from dead or unplayable.

They are not unplayable but unwinnable in stronger tournaments.

wuestenfux wrote:

Razgriz22 wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Well, I read Stelek's comments on the new Eldar. He's pretty much right. Eldar is almost dead. The buffs do not balance the nerfs.

I do not believe this. Will Eldar be winning every tournament? No. But they are far from dead or unplayable.

They are not unplayable but unwinnable in stronger tournaments.

Seems a bit broad. How about you let a couple of 6th edition tournaments play out first? Bikers got strong. DE are strong allies. Pathfinders are pretty ridiculous too.

Eldrad is borderline OP now.

Taking him with 4 divination powers and a regular farseer with doom and fortune is ridiculous.

"Pathfinders are pretty ridiculous too."
I still don't understand what people see in them. At least when I look at all the rules on paper.
I guess I will have to play few times with them. Precision strikes are not that hot with 6 then 4+ (sniper) and another 4+ (LoS), plus possible cover. It is a nice boon but half of unit worth 24 ppm wounding on 4+?
8 guys (almost 200 points) need 3 rounds of shooting for this to happen. I'm not that impressed. Something I'm missing?

Macok wrote:"Pathfinders are pretty ridiculous too."
I still don't understand what people see in them. At least when I look at all the rules on paper.
I guess I will have to play few times with them. Precision strikes are not that hot with 6 then 4+ (sniper) and another 4+ (LoS), plus possible cover. It is a nice boon but half of unit worth 24 ppm wounding on 4+?
8 guys (almost 200 points) need 3 rounds of shooting for this to happen. I'm not that impressed. Something I'm missing?

Nice for sniping special weapons, not so great for sniping sergeants/characters.

It's very random. One practice game I took out 7 special weapons through precision shots with 2 squads of 5 (not counting all the kills I got with normal rolls and/or AP1 shots). The next I never rolled a 6 to hit.

If you get lucky it can basically strip a squad of its special weapons in one round of shooting.

Couple points on Rangers.. ( I actually dont pay for the PF upgrade.)

Shooting is great and all, especially seeing as the Primaris power for Divination is Reroll misses. Then you have 24" range to cast Doom and the new power that rerolls successful saves.. AND a new power that gives Ignore Cover. ( I know that seems random, but you statistically get 2 of the 3 new ones every time you bring Eldrad. He gets 4 rolls.)

Note: I have brought a 100 pt defense line every game. Putting the Rangers there is 3+ cover, 2 + for Pathfinders. When going to ground now ( 2+ cover behind the ADL) you can still shoot snapshots the next turn. (So you still hit on 6's, which you will be rerolling)

I think Eldar should always consider both Eldrad and a regular Farseer at 1500 pts or more.

I say always bring 10 rangers from here on out. The new trick with Eldar, thats actually an old trick, is to make sure you dance your psyker powers effectively. Get them to the right units and we have some sick comboes. The only real loss is that Prescience is worthless on a Fire Prism, as it doesn't reroll scatter dice like guide does.

Edit: Also, consider the role of Rangers/Pathfinders. They are a 190/240 point unit for 10 that dont require a transport and generally have a better save than your DA's. They sit on home objectives REALLY well. For more exposure, you could run 2 five manners, but I like a mass of 10 better. You just can't let them get assaulted or flamered... which is where the Quadgun comes into play. This last game it killed 5 DSing flamers over 2 turns and tagged 4 wounds from 2 Demon Princes in others.

So Eldrad, Farseer, 2 squads of Rangers, and a defense line. What's the rest of the army. It requires anti-tank, anti-air, and counterstrike.

2 squads of DA's in WS, 2 Fire Prisms, 1 larger or 2 smaller FD squads dependant on points. It's been working just fine. Hell, I even had a solo wraith lord in there just to absorb some points.

Lots of STR 6 has been doing just fine for Anti-tank btw.

However, I think I see where this is going. Your going to look at a list and pick it apart via the interwebs and what it says in playable, probably with a lot of Steleks input.

I won't take that bait, I'm just going to tell you they've been working fine for me and that I have every intention of qualifying for the Feast of Blades.

I'll be sure to post my B-reps once my qualifier is complete.

I also do not comprehend the Pathfinder love. I get the ranger love.

Rangers synergize with Sniper very very well. All of their AP1 hits are also precision hits. All they need after this is a Doom'd target. This also works great because you can have a farseer out doing something else (fortuning a WG block, the avatar, etc) and he can toss Doom on some marine unit and forget about it.

Pathfinders actually get no more benefit from Sniper than rangers do - instead, half of their AP1 hits will not be precision, and will get stuck on the closest trooper.

Keep in mind that by removing special weapon troops (dev. ML marines, tac-squad heavies, etc), you indirectly buff the durability of your own units specifically, high-T, poor save units like wraithlords and heavy-support platforms, and all AV12 targets.

The pathfinder upgrade is defensive upgrade, and that is pretty much it. The offensive bonus for the upgrade is minimal.

In 5th, rangers outshot pathfinders, on a point-for-point basis. This is only more true in 6th as pathfinders cost more but get marginal returns for the cost w/r/t the Sniper rule.

So, home Obj camping ranger units combined with a doom-seer are probably the way forward. This combines well with what was said above, in that eldrad rolling all-divination, and a doom/fortuneseer is probably the optimal psyker load out for eldar armies in the 1500-1999pt range. (by the way, wraithguard with a fortune'd 4++ and foreboding? bwahahahahahaha)

I'm going to be trying large units of D-cannons as soon as I can. It fits right in with the wraithwall scheme, which is controlling your opponent's movement by removal of choices. The only way to remove eldar high-T units is via assault. Combine this with VoT, 2+ cover harlequins for Eldar victory.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:I thought banshees were great in 5th ed! Stick them in a WS with a doomseer and off they went, killing termies and MEQs with good old power weapons. Admittedly, now they can't really kill termies that much, or chapter masters with relic armour.

That's like a 500 point squad that would kill 8.25 marines provided they got the charge and were full strength and you were able to get doom off and they didn't have an invulnerable save. The problem is that it's nearly impossible to land a decent charge out of a wave serpent without exposing it's rear armor, where it is incredibly vulnerable (AV10, no energy field). You're going to be losing on a serious chunk of firepower taking that unit, something Eldar already has issues with.

Once they kill something and are out in the open they are hideously fragile.

Phoenix lords and units synergy.

with the support of 2+ armor now I've been looking at using phoenix lords and what groups they would work well with. While they can't work with other aspects, there are units that they can team up with very well.

Maugan Ra with a squad of pathfinders and a fortune seer. Ra can be out in front with his massive 2+armor, and if something ignores that comes your way, look out sir with a 2+ cover save pathfinder. Fortune you can re-roll, and you have added to your shooting capability of the squad with 6-7 rending shots.

Harlequins make great escorts for those close combat lords. The new rules for veil of tears gives you a squad that can look out sir and provide at least a 4+ cover save. Conversely if someone snipes at your shadow seer you can push him out of the way with Feugan and take his armor save and feel no pain. Karandras now has a 5+ save everywhere but close combat, and once you get there you can generally challenge the only guys that will be ignoring armor.

Wraithguard paired up with Jain Zar and a conceal lock. A wave serpent delivers them quickly, now opponents have the unenviable options to shoot a toughness 6 squad with 5+ invul saves, or charge a squad with a massively powerful close combat character. (really hope they faq executioners to be ap2 with no initiative loss like the necron war scythe.)

Still not big on Baharroth or Asurman. Jain Zar is not my favorite until they fix executioners. The others though I really quite like in the new edition.

Vibro cannons: I think vibro cannons actually do more then one glancing hit per battery, although this would depend on the number that actually hit. A target with an armor value hit by a vibro cannon. I interpret that as being every cannon that hits causes a glance. I roll three dice and two hit that's two glances. Any hits on units in addition are just gravy.

Well, I still believe that PL's are too expensive for what they can achieve.

The example with Karandras leading a squad of Storm Guardians posted by Stelek is nice. But when this unit moves across the board, it may happen that the enemy can concentrate fire on the Guardians.
Or he moves a Rhino in between K. and the disembarked squad so that the squad cannot see K. and so can shoot the Guardians.

Since when is this Stelek the god of all Eldar knowledge? 6th Edition has been out for what, 2 weeks? We can't possibly know that our team is no longer winnable. As ThunderFrog said, wait till batreps are out. Don't write anything completely out until it is actually tried a few times. If you want to ditch Eldar because Stelek says they are crap now, then none of us will care.

And Thunderfrog, I really like the Idea of sticking Eldrad to the divination powers. The randomness just still scares me. I have such a hard time giving up doom guide and fortune. Im Just taking advantage of being able to take Eldrad, a farseer, and the avatar at 2000 pts. That and having more then 3 heavy support since those slots were so fought over before.

Razgriz22 wrote:Since when is this Stelek the god of all Eldar knowledge? 6th Edition has been out for what, 2 weeks? We can't possibly know that our team is no longer winnable. As ThunderFrog said, wait till batreps are out. Don't write anything completely out until it is actually tried a few times. If you want to ditch Eldar because Stelek says they are crap now, then none of us will care.

In fact, Stelek has not said that Elldar is crap or unwinnable.

My apology, That was just what it seemed from what you were saying.

The only point I am trying to make is that we can't just throw Eldar in dumps just yet. There seems to be plenty of viable options in 6th for them to try and test.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And on the ranger/ pathfinder debate... I will be starting to take them in my list as a replacement for guardians that I had doing similar things. I dont think they are the most amaizng troop choice available, but when compared to guardians, the are gold. Now about the upgrade being worth it or not to pathfinders... thats a tough one. Is the scout, ignore difficult terrain, +2 on cover saves (shrouded is the new term i think?), and AP1 on 5-6 roll worth it? Im still on the fence over it. I think I'll play a few games with both and see if the extra 50 point is worth it else where or invested with the pathfinders.