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So for +15 points my warboss can take an attack squig. But can he take more than one? If so is there a cap as to how many attacks one model can have?

the rule book says that a model can have over 10 attacks

the codex says that he may take any of the following not multiples

though it would be cool to have boss on bike with 15 attacks

Attack squigs used to be a model with his own attack and stat-line. So we could take 3 of them. With the old mixed armor rules, Technically your Warboss and Nobsquad could be close to 60 models if each one took 3 attack squigs. And with mixed armor save, the squigs got shot first. It was cheese-city to have a nob squad with a built-in grot squad and probably a cover save from force field.

But now 1 squig is all you get. It is awesome that it can give your powerklaw another swing. Worth every point.

With new powerfist rules- the squig is actually worth the 15 points for some players- esspecially if he's a bothersome boss on a bike with a claw. (those are actually really good- especially against vehicles- strike rear armour in melee)

I don't think the Power Klaw can combine with the Squig for +1 Power Fist attack.

Nurglitch wrote:I don't think the Power Klaw can combine with the Squig for +1 Power Fist attack.

why not... the attack squig grants +1 attack. its not a weapon but a stat increase.

agreed with above poster. it modifies the statline of the person with the wargear so its fine

power fists say (not exact) users may only gain the +1 atk for having two weapons if they are weilding two fist/thunderhammer/lightning klaw

it makes no mention of excluding any other kind of bonus

NaZ

Yeah, Nurlitch seems to be incorrect far more frequently in 5th than he was in 4th. This is strange.

Something to do with not having a copy of the 5th edition rules, I suspect.

That said, I'd expect that the Power Fist rules exclude a Power Fist from getting a Squig bonus.

I say squig modifies the attack stat. Useable with power klaw. I don't know what this 'power fist' you keep referring to with orks....

Lets get Nurglitch a 5th ed book and fast. I am not used to him being wrong often and it kinda throws me.

FlatlanderBoss2.0:

According to the Ork codex a Power Klaw: "...counts as a power fist in all respects".

Since I don't have the 5th edition rulebook, could someone be so kind as to quite the exact text of the Power Fist rules?

to quote the rulebook...

A power fist (or ‘power claw’) is an armoured gauntlet surrounded by a disruptive energy field. A power fist is a power weapon, and also doubles the user’s Strength(up to a maximum of 10). Power fists, however, are difficult and cumbersome to use, so attacks with a power fist are always delivered at Initiative 1 (ignore Initiative bonuses from special rules, wargear, etc.).

youll probably want this too...

attacking with a normal and special weapon...
These models gain one additional attack. All of their attacks, including the bonus attack, benefit from the special weapon’s bonuses. Power fists, thunder hammers and lightning claws are an exception to this. Only a second power fist, thunder hammer or lightning claw can confer a bonus attack toa model equipped with one of these weapons.

an attack squig however is not a weapon...

usernamesareannoying:

Thank you for providing quotations. You should probably use the quote function or quotation marks for clarity, but I think it's clear enough that I can point out:

"Only a second power fist, thunder hammer or lightening claw can confer a bonus attack to a model equipped with one of these weapons."

This tells us what can confer a bonus attack to a model equipped with a Power Fist (aka "Power Klaw" in Orkish): a second weapon of the same kind. Since a Squig is not a second weapon of the same kind it cannot confer a bonus attack to a model equipped with a Power Klaw.

Attack squigs are seperate from that rule in the same way terminator honours are, it's not a weapon it's wargear. The entry for attack squigs states;

"A character with an attack squiq benefits from +1 attack"

It's pretty cut and dry to me, and this is the first time I've ever heard it queried.

Nurglitch wrote:usernamesareannoying:

Thank you for providing quotations. You should probably use the quote function or quotation marks for clarity, but I think it's clear enough that I can point out:

"Only a second power fist, thunder hammer or lightening claw can confer a bonus attack to a model equipped with one of these weapons."

This tells us what can confer a bonus attack to a model equipped with a Power Fist (aka "Power Klaw" in Orkish): a second weapon of the same kind. Since a Squig is not a second weapon of the same kind it cannot confer a bonus attack to a model equipped with a Power Klaw.

so then by that logic you're saying that if i give a chaos lord a power fist then give him the mark of khorne he wont get the +1 attack?
this is no different than that.

i disagree with you nurglitch...

Greebynog:

Except, as I've pointed out, being wargear means that a Squig is definitely not a duplicate of the only kind of weapon that gives an attack bonus.

Interesting point about Terminator Honours, now that you bring it up though. You don't get a +1A bonus for that wargear item any more if you're equipped with a Power Fist!

"Only a second power fist, thunder hammer or lightening claw can confer a bonus attack to a model equipped with one of these weapons."

this is all under the close combat weapons heading in the rulebook. it is talking about combinations of weapons that grant bonuses to attacks and NOT wargear.
the squig is wargear and does not fall under the restriction laid upon a powerfist.

usernamesareannoying:

Marks of Chaos are Special Rules, not Wargear, and so the attack that the Mark of Khorne contributes is not a bonus. That is why Khorne Berzerkers have the attack included in their profile. A Chaos Lord with a Mark of Khorne has A4, not A3+1, which would contradict the quoted rules.

As you say, a Squig is Wargear, not a change in the model's profile, and not a second Power Klaw. Therefore it cannot provide a bonus attack to a model armed with a Power Klaw.

i disagree but what do i know...
to each their own i guess...

Nurglitch wrote:
Marks of Chaos are Special Rules, not Wargear, and so the attack that the Mark of Khorne contributes is not a bonus. That is why Khorne Berzerkers have the attack included in their profile. A Chaos Lord with a Mark of Khorne has A4, not A3+1, which would contradict the quoted rules.

Out of curiosity, how would you deal with instances where the Mark is conferred on a model by a piece of wargear (Icon of Khorne in a non-cult unit)?

Nurglitch: I, and everyone else I've ever talked to on this read the squig as granting +1 attack to the profile of the model. Also codex>rulebook. I see where you're drawing your conclusion from, but that instance is in a section refering specifically to second ccws, not wargear.

Nurglitch,


While I agree that you are correct by the RAW, I think that you would change your tune if you could see the entire page.

Because you've taken a sentence in isolation out of context from how it is presented in the rulebook.

On that page for close combat weapons is a section called: "Fighting with two single-handed weapons" which is where the rule that has been quoted is from.

That section goes through all the possible combinations of fighting with two single-handed weapons: Two normal close combat weapons, two of the same special weapon, A normal and a special weapon and two different special weapons.

In all cases, the rules are basically explaining whether or not you get to use the special weapon's abilities plus whether or not you get the bonus attack for having two single-handed weapons.

Within this context I think it is clear the quoted rule is in reference to the bonus attack for having two close combat weapons even though the sentence taken in isolation does not say that.


Either way, it's a good candidate for a FAQ submission so I'm glad it has been brought up.

Alpharius Walks:

How I deal with it is irrelevant. The quoted rules indicate that a model does not get a bonus attack for an Icon of Khorne if it is using a Power Fist.

Greebynog:

Argumentum ad populum, the appeal to popular opinion, is irrelevant.

The Codex only 'trumps' the main rules where specified.

Now, where you claim the scope of the quoted rules to be fixed by their location in the rules, you actually propose a relevant reason to believe that the Attack Squig provides the bonus attacks: it is not specifically excluded by the scope of the quoted rules. This appeals to structural facts about the rules, and hence is relevant to the question of what rules are stated by the text.

However, that would only be a good reason, logically, if the quoted rules were expressed as additions to the ordinary Power Fist rules rather than limitations on them. Then you could say that a Power Fist wielding model gains a bonus attack if it has a second Power Fist, or if it has an Attack Squig. But it doesn't, it limits the bonuses to duplicate weapons of the same type rather than leaving it open-ended, and so you can't.

Yakface:

If the interpretation I am providing is correct, then I have not taken the quoted rules out of context. That is certain: one cannot make correct inferences outside of their proper context.

I certainly admit that it might be the case that they were quoted out of context, since I am relying on other people to provide the relevant material, but as I point out to Greebynog when addressing this matter of scope and context, you're not dealing with a permutation on a previously existing rule (+1A if 2nd Wpn), you're dealing with a limit (+1A iff 2nd PF). We know this because the term 'bonus attack' is bound by the indefinite article. Bound by the definite article, the sentence would read:

"Only a second power fist, thunder hammer or lightening claw can confer the bonus attack to a model equipped with one of these weapons."

"The bonus attack" clearly refers to whatever was referenced as 'bonus attack' in that section of the rules. "A bonus attack" refers to anything referenced as a 'bonus attack' in the rules. If the term in question were bound by the definite article fixing the referent of the term to the local scope, then your argument from context would be sound. But that's not how the rule is written, so while your argument is valid, its truth-value is 0 in this application.

It's not referenced as a 'bonus attack' as my quotation direct from the ork codex proves. It states that:

"A character with an attack squiq benefits from +1 attack" -Codex Orks, Pg 92, Other Equipment

'+1 attack' clearly within the context of all other rules refers to an increase in the base statline of the model, and therefore remains unaffected by rules pertaining to the use of an additional hand weapon, or indeed, any weapon modifiers. It's the same as something adding +1 wound or WS, it's a statline increase.

Not as Wargear, no. Wargear strictly confers bonuses, they don't alter the model's baseline stats. That's why weapons are listed under Wargear.

Terminator honours, marks of khorne, mandiblasters, attack squigs etc. all modifies the characteristic profile of the model and are not "bonus attacks".

FIGHTING WITH TWO
SINGLE-HANDED WEAPONS
Some models are equipped with two single-handed
weapons they can use in close combat, with the rules
given below for the different possible combinations. Of
course, if a model is using a two-handed close combat
weapon (such as a rifle’s butt or a two-handed battle
axe), it may not use it together with another weapon.

Two normal close combat weapons
These models gain one bonus attack (see page 37).

Two of the same special weapon
These models gain one additional attack. All of their
attacks, including the bonus attack, use the special
weapon’s bonuses and penalties.

A normal and a special weapon
These models gain one additional attack. All of their
attacks, including the bonus attack, benefit from the
special weapon’s bonuses.
Power fists, thunder hammers and lightning claws are
an exception to this. Only a second power fist, thunder
hammer or lightning claw can confer a bonus attack to
a model equipped with one of these weapons.

Two different special weapons
When it is their turn to attack, these models must
choose which weapon to use that turn, but they never
get the bonus attack for using two weapons (such is
the penalty for wielding too many complex weapons!).

As you can see clearly throughout the text the word "bonus attack" is solely used for the extra attack gained by having more than one singled-handed weapon.

Also if it was the case that nothing gave +1a then you wouldn't get an extra attack on charge ether

the rule about power fist not getting extra attacks is only for a second weapon nothing else

Why is anyone listening/responding to Nurglitch at all?

And why is he bothering to answer questions about a rulebook he does not have?

Freaking nonsense.

There is a clear difference between "bonus attacks" generated from a second hand weapon and "additional attack" from a squig.

The powerfist rules only apply to the "bonus attacks" from CCWs.

You are going to get booed out of many tournaments if you purposefully misinterpret rules like that.