Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ramming is a kind of tank shock, and tank shocking causes d6 S10 hits according to the rule - but auto-hitting with d6 S10 attacks is pretty devastating to any kind of vehicle, and you can have up to 8 BattleWagons with these things in a 2500 point game.

No, I believe it doesn't. Reasoning points to the fact that Ramming and tank shocking are in fact two different entries in the rule book and so 2 different move options for the vehicle. Plus, it would be waaay to devastating for such an upgrade that gives d6 S10 auto hits on a rammed vehicle.

Yeah, trouble is ramming says it's a special kind of tank shock.

And unfortunately all I can think of against it is "that'd be way overpowered" but that's hardly a rules argument.

There has been a thread about this. I do not know what the consensus was at the end, but they leaned on raw defining it as a tankshock with special rules for hitting a vehicle. still got the d6...

I must say that it would be pretty annoying to have 8 BW with rollas on the opposite side of the table rolling toward you in a AV14 column. Would be hard to take that out of the fight, and once it reaches the line t will shock everyone to death (center one shocks first, units placed to side and get shocked again... good times...)

Until FAQed (hopefully!) RAW says it works on Ramming as well.

Kill Points & Ramming: dumbest rules additions ever.

It does by RAW.

Seems overpowered to me.

Ramming is just about the coolest to happen to the Grim Darkness since ... well heck, since Gorkamorka.

Can't speak for Kill Points.

The entire RAW argument is based on one sentence that can easily be read more as fluff than as rules.

Yes, but it is in the RULE-book, not the FLUFF-book, making it the RULES-AS-WRITTEN.



sorry I am feeling a little ... tingy atm.

yes, and the RULE book has plenty of FLUFF interspersed with the RULES....


Plus, even if you agree that the Ram is a subset of TS, doesn't mean that being able to TS allows you access to all subsets of that ability.

coredump wrote:yes, and the RULE book has plenty of FLUFF interspersed with the RULES....


Plus, even if you agree that the Ram is a subset of TS, doesn't mean that being able to TS allows you access to all subsets of that ability.

It's pretty simple really. The deff rolla causes hits to any unit you tankshock. Ramming is a type of tankshock, thus, the deff rolla causes hits when you ram. You can say that's a RAW argument. You could also say it makes perfect sense that a vehicle specially designed for smashing into things would be particularly good at smashing into things.

this has been argued time and time again and it always ends badly. Now if you actually read the rules for tank shocking and ramming you will find that the deff rolla cant be used against a vehicle. Yes I know that ramming says its a special kind of tank shock but its called ramming and its a seperate category, now if you read ramming youll find that you cant use the deff rolla (really read it, word for word using basic english and sentence composition) secondly if you want to say and insist that its a tank shock then RAW you will never be able to use the deff rolla against a vehicle, why you ask? well its simple when performing a tank shock if you come within 1" of an enemy vehicle you stop immediatlly, do not pass go, do not collect 200 teef. So therefor how can you possiblly tank shock a vehicle if RAW you stop an inch away. But if you seriously read ramming youll find that you cant use a deff rolla on a vehicle. But hey if you want to do it in the privacy of your own home go for it, if your store says you can, great. Let me know where you play and Ill bring my 5 battle wagons with deff rollas and we can have a good ol time of it. Heck Ill run a looted wagon formation with deff rollas and proceed to do d6 str 10 hits on all your superheavies, nothing like a rhino with a rolla squishing titans and bane blades.


By the way if I may, I would highly suggest that in the future any moderator quickly put an end to the "can a deff rolla be used against a vehicle" threads, you know how they end.

I'm with da gob smaka here, it calls ramming a special kind of tank shock because the ram move is simlar to the tank shock move, but the effects applied to a unit of infantry(tank shock) and a vehicle(ramming) are two very different effects.

da gob smaka wrote:Yes I know that ramming says its a special kind of tank shock but its called ramming and its a seperate category...

Sorry, but you've got that backwards. If it only worked for 'ramming', then your reasoning would be valid. As it is, your argument does not stand up. Both 'tank shock' and 'ramming' are types of tank shocking. 'Ramming' is not a separate category.

Personal opinion #1, the RAW and RAI are for it (RAI evidenced by the fluff entry to Battlewagons equipped with the rolla "rolling over infantry and light vehicles alike").

Personal opinion #2, it is super overpowered.

debated to death already.

ruled at the most recent GT and at 'Ard boyz:

tank shock = ram
wargear that effects one effects the other

therefore:

reinforced ram lets trukks ram
deffrollas work against anything hit by the battlewagon. vehicles included

quit debating this already

NaZ

All I needed to know. Apparently GW doesn't play its own games.

Easy answer to the 7 LR army, though! The 8 BW army!

Nurgleboy77 wrote:Until FAQed (hopefully!) RAW says it works on Ramming as well.

Kill Points & Ramming: dumbest rules additions ever.

i sorta disagree with the ramming. i think the idea of being able to ram is awesome. BUT i agree on the way the rules are written for it. on that note, IMO a rolla is basically a HOLLOW barrel with spikes on it. granted it would be a HEAVY barrel but a barrel none the less. if you rammed a tank or something heavy with it, it would be all smashed up and broken.

New plan: Ork army consisting of lots of Tonka Truck steam rollers

Certainly helps deal with the Skimmer issue.

Not really, skimmers get a 3+ save against ramming if they moved at all.

But against those, you just use your boarding plank!

[which, coincidentally, if the deff rolla didn't kill it then you just drop the boarding plank in the assault phase and let your power klaw nob/Ghazghull rip it apart]

That's right! fethers.

Note that with D6 attacks the Deff Rolla is doing pretty good against AV12 with a 3+.

It's a 3+ to avoid the ramming move, not a 3+ save for each hit.

Agreed, if the skimmer makes the dodge save, it is not rammed and therefore is not subject to any deffrolla hits.

Making it a 3+ against each hit is just making up a lot of rules.

ah, my bad. Yeah, that makes sense, eh?

thats how they ruled it at ard boyz semis

yes it works, but if a skimmer dodges it doesn't trigger the deffrolla

people can disagree with the power level or effectiveness of the deffrolla.. I mean every dex has something strong

But I think its overly paranoid. in the entire ard boyz semis I was at there were 5 ork players.. and most of us took atleast 1 battlewagon, and the ram of another vehicle didn't happen a single time

so while it does have the potential to be strong, your opponent basically has to let it happen

NaZ

Thats a good point, NaZ - If you've been so badly outmanouevered that you can't avoid having a Battlewagon roll into you then you've probably lost the game anyway...

My rollas will be crushing all manor of vehicles, if I can ever reach them. Until GW says rollas don't get the hits vs a ram, they do because that's what the book says to me.

Spellbound wrote:All I needed to know. Apparently GW doesn't play its own games.

Easy answer to the 7 LR army, though! The 8 BW army!

The 8 BW army is the answer to just about anything. And GW is making a plastic one next year!

Tank shock does not equal ramming,
Ramming equals tank shock.

Rectangle does not equal square,
Square equals rectangle.

While the book does say that ramming is a type of tank shock, it doesn't say that tank shock is a type of ram.

There are a lot of mechanical differences between the both and I believe this is one (that is a personal belief).

Deffrolla does not work against vehicles. Ramming has it's own special rules for dealing damage that involve relative armor values and speed. You use these rules instead of the S10 hits because that's what the Ramming rules say.