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HQ:
5x Tyranid warriors
+1sv
+1S
+4x death spitter (A-D)
+1x barbed strangler (E)
+sything talons (A)
+rending claws (B)
+spinefists (C)
+lashwhip (D)
+sything talons (E) - 176

1x Hive
+warp field
+winged
+1ws
+sything talons = 177
+barbed strangler

Troops:
15xGaunts
+spine fists = 75
(Less with WoN?)

16xGaunts
+spine fists = 80

Elites:
3x Tyranid Warrior squads, as listed above - 528 (It got too spammy)

Heavy support:
1x Carnifex
+Barbed strangler
+venom cannon
+enchanced sense = 148

1x Carnifex
+Barbed strangler
+sything talons
+extended carapace
+bonded exoskelton = 158

1x Carnifex
+Barbed strangler
+sything talons
+extended carapace
+bonded exoskelton = 158

= 1500

Troops are insuffieceint but the core is down. At higher points, simply more troops will be added. The little guys will actually hang back & hide behind, well everything. Will WoN be a worthy upgrade?
The 1st fex is weaker & all snipery because 1) save points 2) Deal with tanks 3) Add in the choice to draw fire from the boom fexes.
The Tyrant is there because I think you should always try and have somthing to combat a strong CC unit, in any army & to catch fast vehicles. Also again to draw fire or engage very hard targets.

Lots of fire. Every sqaud aside from the gaunts are tough as beans. Refried beans.

What do you think?

gaunts arent worth it get genestealers or homergaunts

All that I need my troop-choices to do are to capture objectives.. no other unit can do that aswell as gaunts, in this army.

no butr if they get in trouble there useless

Hence why I have 1330 additional points of army to use. The only things I would probably use, would be devourer gaunts with +1str. More expensive but able to fire from range if things get close enough. At 1500pts, I simply needed some worthy objective takers & I think 2x17 gaunts fill this role, as synpase is not an issue.

I play nids at my flgs and the only way warriors are worth their points is if their cheap but the rest is tough as nails

SamG123 wrote:
I play nids at my flgs and the only way warriors are worth their points is if their cheap but the rest is tough as nails

These warriors use the same rules exploitation as Nob Bikers. Since they are all equipped differently, you can use the wound allocation to your advantage.

jammy wrote:gaunts arent worth it get genestealers or homergaunts

Genestealers don't fit into this army build at all. Hormagaunts are always a bad choice. Always. Do the math between them and Genestealers. Genestealers win every time you need to assault something. In this case, Spinegaunts are the troop of choice thanks to being dirt cheap and potential 2+ cover saves for lurking and going to ground.

I'd change that flyrant to a Dakkatyrant. There are too many things that not only stand up against an assault Tyrant, but can kill it (Ork Boy swarms, Nobs of any sort, TH/SS Termies, etc. etc.). 12+d6" is not mobile enough for assaulting 100% of the time. However, 12 S5 shots that re-roll both misses and failed wounds with a 30" threat range is always awesome and you you can assault vehicles just as hard as the assault-tyrant (minus two swings, meh). Yes, this puts you at 196 points for the flyrant, totally worth 26 more points.

Your Sniperfex is slightly off in points, he's 141. All three of your fexes should be kitted out like that: Senses, Cannon, Strangler. Going Strangler/Talons is for placing them in Elite slots at 113 points, which a Dakkafex is better for the points anyways. Venom Cannons punch through Ork Battlewagons, and rock up any other vehicle to stop them from firing those big scary things we don't like.


Extreme Warrior spam like that is very excessive. Anything that can get beyond 24" of you or wrap you up in Assault will give you a bad game. Beyond that, while you do have your Warriors set up to abuse wound allocation rules, Warriors die rather easily. Two wounds, T4, 4+ saves... anything with Heavy Bolters, Autocannons (see also: Lootas), or their own template spam will butcher these guys. There's only 20 of them, not a very big number considering the points they're eating.

That being said, if your scatter die likes you while you're shooting at massed troops, you can wrack up so many wounds from blast template spam it's just crazy.

If you're serious about only having two Gaunt squads for troops, I'd recommend having them come in as reserves later in the game to keep them alive.

Mattlov wrote:

SamG123 wrote:
I play nids at my flgs and the only way warriors are worth their points is if their cheap but the rest is tough as nails

These warriors use the same rules exploitation as Nob Bikers. Since they are all equipped differently, you can use the wound allocation to your advantage.

This also means that, since they are immune to ID unlike Bikers, you must do the full amount of wounds to kill them off. A guy at my shop does Warrior-spam and it is a pain to deal with.

Warrior spam becomes so much better when they have a gaunt screen to give them cover saves at all times. The warriors in turn give cover saves to the TMC's behind them.

To this end you need more gaunts and I would definately go with WoN. You can have them out in front to soak up charges and give cover saves, then get them back to score.

Another thing to consider is just how useful lash whips are. Any super nails single model HtH threat just hates only having one attack, especially against a ton of multi wound, complex allocation models.

Fully agree on the need for a choppy flyrant. It's not as useful as a dakka flyrant in general play, but is required for those enemy units that need a kicking in cc- nobs, seer council (chop out the farseer) and the like. It's also pretty good at scrapping enemy vehicles, something the rest of the army lacks.

--edit--
Flyrant needs implant attack.

The warriors are relatively weak but with 2 wounds & a 4+ (cover/armor.. take your pick.. I should hopefully mostly always have both) itll take 6 wounds per squad to kill one.. the the rest obviously start dropping off quickly. With thier weapon bio-morphs, thier not bad in close-combat. Thier not up to scratch with genestealers, especially for their points, though.

Your right about me being wrong, but your wrong abot yourself being right.. Umm, cheers - ive re-calculated the sniper fex & he comes to 148 (i simply forgot to add in the +8 for enhanced senses!)

I think Ill swap out one of the sything talons for a barbed strangler. I just dont like devourers. I can kinda see they are viable but maybes its just I dont like rolling to hit with nids Oh and hes there to deal with AV14 things.

As for the gaunts - yes, reserves, good call.. Although I may lower one squad & give it WoN.. use it as a covering meatshield.

My elites slots are full of warriors. I thought about where I could get maximum boom for my buck & warriors it is. (well probably 3 assault boom fexes, 3 sniper fexes & 2 hq warriors but.. for a few game reasons I didnt like this) As for the fex changes in general.. the boom fexes are hardy. 2+ T7 wont go away too easily, especailly when screened by warriors. The barbed stranglers alone arent too shabby at anti-vehicle & I like the idea of having 3 2+ saving MC's.

Lastly, the warriors have an 30" effective range (a touch more with the barded strangler alone), theres a decent amount of pinning, which is some compared to none and I have the flyrant to engage any major threats that would try and bog up my warrior/fex gunline.

Edit: Updated.. had to merc a few precious gaunts to make room for suggested changes & nessicary adjustements. Whats this about lashwhips? On the warriors, in place of the sything talons? I can only have 2 per sqaud compared to 1, to keep the wound allocation buisness running. Although.. im starting to think, as they are immune to instant death.. wont having groups of two (in terms of uniqueness) accomplish the same thing..? & Why implant attack? Ahh.. multi-wounds. Again, either I loose a warrior on one sqaud, buy back some gaunts & this implant attack or loose more gaunts.

Razerous wrote:Your right about me being wrong, but your wrong abot yourself being right.. Umm, cheers - ive re-calculated the sniper fex & he comes to 148 (i simply forgot to add in the +8 for enhanced senses!)

I think Ill swap out one of the sything talons for a barbed strangler. I just dont like devourers. I can kinda see they are viable but maybes its just I dont like rolling to hit with nids Oh and hes there to deal with AV14 things.

Doh, totally right about them being 148. I was thinking 148, not sure how my fingers put 141...

Don't like rolling to hit with 'nids? You have to roll to hit with anything, whether it's assault or scatter die. As far as being there to deal with AV14, he has to roll better than average on the assault to hurt Land Raiders, and he won't scratch a Monolith (who plays Necrons any more, anyways?). If that Land Raider moves more than 6", you'll need to roll 6's to even touch it, then roll better than average (S6 + 2d6 on average is 13) to glance or pen. On anything that is not a Raider or a Monolith, you'll rip it to shreds no matter what since you're attacking back armor, making the two extra attacks kinda useless.

Heck, let's say you do rip open a Land Raider. What's in it? Usually TH/SS Terminators. Just what you want to be ripping your Tyrant to shreds. Leave shaking up Land Raiders to your Venom Cannons.

Assault Flyrants are for butchering piles of non-assaulty units and then killing them all in a sweeping advance. They're great for Tau, Necrons, IG, Split-squad Marines without Power Fists, etc and so forth. The problem is that a dakka flyrant gives you 12 S5 BS4 twin-linked re-roll wound shots prior to assaulting and your only drawback is two less swings. 12 shots with range for two assault-only swings.

OddJob. wrote:It's not as useful as a dakka flyrant in general play, but is required for those enemy units that need a kicking in cc- nobs, seer council...

These are two great examples of what NOT to assault. Your flyrant gets 6 attacks on the charge at WS6 S6. A minimum mob of Nobz will be WS5, Cybork Bodies, T4(5), full wound allocation abuse, and have more power klaw attacks swinging back at you than your Tyrant can survive. S6 will not instant kill them, so on top of their 5+ invul saves, you have to double wound them all. Not too big an issue if you have implant attacks, but even then you're looking at maybe 3 dead. Then comes the Klaws, and a dead Tyrant.

Seer councils get a lovely 4+ re-rolling invul save and are generally (well, should be) run completely on jetbikes. Being on Jetbikes means they are ALWAYS more mobile than you. They can turbo-boost for a 24" move, or move 12", shoot/flamer something, and move another 6" during assault. The re-rolling 4+ invul save means you two will just be poking away at each other while both of your statistically small chances to fail a save occur at some point. This generally takes at least three rounds of sitting around, doing very little.

jammy wrote:gaunts arent worth it get genestealers or homergaunts

Gaunts are the best expendable troops.

Genestealers are expensive to hold objectives and are best are cc. With armour save 4+ they will get shot up. Hormagaunts lol are more than gaunts are utter pants. They need extra strength and weapon skill to be any use really.

Kirbinator wrote:

OddJob. wrote:It's not as useful as a dakka flyrant in general play, but is required for those enemy units that need a kicking in cc- nobs, seer council...

These are two great examples of what NOT to assault. Your flyrant gets 6 attacks on the charge at WS6 S6. A minimum mob of Nobz will be WS5, Cybork Bodies, T4(5), full wound allocation abuse, and have more power klaw attacks swinging back at you than your Tyrant can survive. S6 will not instant kill them, so on top of their 5+ invul saves, you have to double wound them all. Not too big an issue if you have implant attacks, but even then you're looking at maybe 3 dead. Then comes the Klaws, and a dead Tyrant.

Seer councils get a lovely 4+ re-rolling invul save and are generally (well, should be) run completely on jetbikes. Being on Jetbikes means they are ALWAYS more mobile than you. They can turbo-boost for a 24" move, or move 12", shoot/flamer something, and move another 6" during assault. The re-rolling 4+ invul save means you two will just be poking away at each other while both of your statistically small chances to fail a save occur at some point. This generally takes at least three rounds of sitting around, doing very little.

Try thinking outside the box:

1. Chop-fly-rant should have implant attack
2. Nob bikers- Your army is behind a gaunt screen. Your boom fexs make a shooting battle a loosing battle for the nobs. Against the nob bikers the flyrant charges with a couple of fexs (2+ save preferably), minimising the number of claws on each tmc. If you want to get fruity, gaunts charge the guys with claws (or tyrant guards/warriors with lashwhips if you follow my other advice). Flyrant icks 2-3 nobs on average, with another nob or two from the fex's.
3. You have just won combat by a crapton, mainly tanks to the flyrants contribution of 6 wounds, so you can (I6 flyrant) can run everyone down with ease. Personally I also use psychic scream to make this guaranteed. Your 500pts worth of nids have just pwnerated 750+ pts of nob bikers and you are still at 100% effectiveness because you don't care about the odd wound on TMCs (or the death of screening WoN gaunts).
4. When you assault the seer council the farseer must pile in first thanks to being an IC. You now have about an expected 0.6 of a wound, which will instant kill him, while taking a couple of wounds in return. You still probably win combat. Even if you don't run down the seers they have lost the fortune that makes them uber.
5. Profit.

Sound tactics for beating two of the hardest units in the game. There are many more uses for a choprant, especially in killing fast vehicles that the rest of the nid army struggles with.

In a one on one comparison the dakka-rant might look better. In a holistic view of a tyranid list it isn't the case.

Just for reference, my other HQ is a walkrant with the devourers and guards so I am well aware of how good they are.

Implant attacks, did I buy them? No.. I may swap out that barded strangler for it or just loose points elsewhere. Thats sound advice OddJob & i do agree, I wanted a flyrant in mind with fast hard-to-stun vehicles which would avoid alot of my fire power while shoosting me back.

If I were to up this army, id give the fexes anti-powerfist upgrades, the flyant a couple more add onss.. and more troops. Perhaps squads of 6 warriors, but then im starting to push the unqiue equipement limit. Oh & MOAR troops.

Where the hell is an update sayin warriors can get lash whips?

P37 Tyranid Warrior Section. In the weapon symboites, right hand side collum on the bottom. 5pts.

4th Edition Tyranid codex. Not much else I can say.

WOW how did I never notice that...