Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

We have in the "Human Space Mythology" many things that came either from the fantasy sector of our universal culture or from the general media and all around culture. Examples are: Elves became Eldar, Orcs stayed Orcs , Knights became Space Marines and Zergs or Alliens became Tyranids and goes on and on. My question is: Are there any more races-civilizations-mythological elements that should be part of the Warhammer 40k universe and if yes,which you thing? Personally I would like to see a "PREDATOR" like race with few stardy high tech warriors (AND I DONT mean the GREY KNIGHTS...) dangerous and die hard like...what you think?

Er, Eldar striking scorpions are pretty much predators.

Indeed, you can clearly see Jes Goodwins inspiration when you see their origonal concept artwork.

And I beleive that Zergs came after 'Nids.

Alien then Nids then Zerg.

No,
Aliens ,
then ( GW's nid which copied Giger design )
Zerg came out ( similar to star ship trooper , but had no visual concept . Zerg design is original )
GW redone nid, which then looks like Zergs.

In other words , both idea came from star trooper, but visual concept GW copied Giger / Blizzard.

to OP: a sci fi race that is cool and came from mythology?

I would say star gate. I LOVE that anubis guy in the movie

How about those fellows from persius omicron 8 in Future-rama.

Saving that I would like to see a race like head-crab zombies.

I thought that the inspiration for the nids/zerg came from Aliens and not Alien. I could most likely be wrong but I accept that fate.

LunaHound wrote:No,
Aliens ,
then ( GW's nid which copied Giger design )
Zerg came out ( similar to star ship trooper , but had no visual concept . Zerg design is original )
GW redone nid, which then looks like Zergs.

What? Zerg design is original?
Zerg are similar to SST in that there are space bugs, who are choppy bugs (zerglings) and brainy bugs (cerebrates). This is pretty much where the similarities end, and saying that this makes zerg original is silly, considering that everything else was copied from the old tyranids. Zerg are similar to Tyranids. Even the old style models are close in appearance to the zerg. When the tyranid range was redone, the armor plates on gaunts got a bit more defined and unified into a particular style. Warriors, hive tyrants, and zoanthropes got the triangular head style, which is-sorta-similar ish to ONE zerg unit... That is pretty much the only thing that tyranids had after zerg, that is similar to zerg. The tyranids came before the zerg on every other aspect, and the zerg are similar on all these aspects.

The re-worked GW Tyranids are closer to the Kryomek from the 1991 game. IMHO.
And they got the "inspiration" from Alien I would guess

ph34r wrote:

LunaHound wrote:No,
Aliens ,
then ( GW's nid which copied Giger design )
Zerg came out ( similar to star ship trooper , but had no visual concept . Zerg design is original )
GW redone nid, which then looks like Zergs.

What? Zerg design is original?
Zerg are similar to SST in that there are space bugs, who are choppy bugs (zerglings) and brainy bugs (cerebrates). This is pretty much where the similarities end, and saying that this makes zerg original is silly, considering that everything else was copied from the old tyranids. Zerg are similar to Tyranids. Even the old style models are close in appearance to the zerg. When the tyranid range was redone, the armor plates on gaunts got a bit more defined and unified into a particular style. Warriors, hive tyrants, and zoanthropes got the triangular head style, which is-sorta-similar ish to ONE zerg unit... That is pretty much the only thing that tyranids had after zerg, that is similar to zerg. The tyranids came before the zerg on every other aspect, and the zerg are similar on all these aspects.

I think you missed the whole point of me bothering to type ( visual concept in) As i said, the ideas are ALL copied.
BUT how they LOOK aka designs and visual concept , GW copied Giger and Blizzard.

I would love to see what SST art designs that Zergs copied from

heh sorry was trying to add to the Aliens/Zerg/Kryomek/Tyranid thing

As for other races... predators would be an awkward one to transpose, as they generally fight as single units.
The maximum I think I've seen is 3 in any of the films.
They would have to be an add on to another race.

The problem is I think, so much stuff has been "done to death" that a lot of stuff crosses over in some way.
To find a "new" unique race or entity would perhaps be difficult.
Maybe some sort of silicate based life form or such like would be new.
Brains not what it used to be im afraid

You don't have many dragons in 40k. But you do have giant winged tyrants for the nids.

do you think we'll ever see a resurgance of the 40k dwarves - squats?

Easy. The Spathi! "Peace is an illusion - if you have peace you simply haven't seen the thing trying to kill you!"
"In case you have forgotten, we are bonded to the ur-quan as slaves. The punishment for the plan you are proposing could be described as death".
"The following tale is a sad one, so do not even try to contain your tears. After the Ur-Quan destroyed the Ilwrath they turned the force of their armada against Spathiwa. The term rapidly subjugated would best describe what followed".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEZ75L36m74

Also, the Orz:
"Hello extremely! I hope you like to *play*. Some campers are not so good for games. Is it time for *playing* yet?".
"Yes of course, difficulty. Problems are difficult. Let's be *special* together. Spicy games are always fun".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIbVYXHnaBU

Ahhh, best game ever I'd recommend the Traddash from that game as well, but they are pretty much Orks anyway They even have "Kultur"!

LunaHound wrote:I think you missed the whole point of me bothering to type ( visual concept in) As i said, the ideas are ALL copied.
BUT how they LOOK aka designs and visual concept , GW copied Giger and Blizzard.

I would love to see what SST art designs that Zergs copied from

Alright, let's look at what YOU said.

Aliens ,

yes, the xenomorphs were first, before zerg or tyranids.

then ( GW's nid which copied Giger design )

still right

Zerg came out ( similar to star ship trooper , but had no visual concept

This is where I have no idea what you are talking about. The zerg are barely similar to SST at all, except for the things that I pointed out already.

Zerg design is original )

The zerg design is far from original, they copy heavily from the old style tyranids.

I think you missed the whole point of me bothering to type ( visual concept in)

I do not understand what you mean by "visual concept in".

As i said, the ideas are ALL copied.

Right. tyranids copied xenomorphs, zerg copied tyranids.

BUT how they LOOK aka designs and visual concept , GW copied Giger and Blizzard.

No. Visually, GW copied Giger/xenomorphs while making a few changes. Then, blizzard copied tyranids while changing the designs more just like GW did from the designs of Giger.

I would love to see what SST art designs that Zergs copied from

I NEVER said that the zerg copied art from SST.

EDIT:

The re-worked GW Tyranids are closer to the Kryomek from the 1991 game. IMHO.
And they got the "inspiration" from Alien I would guess

That is interesting, I never knew about the Kryomek. It could be that GW reworked tyranids to be more like them.

If I get round to it, I'll take a photo of one of the kyromek. if I can remember where I hid them

Giant bugs have been a staple of sci-fi since sci-fi first came into existence as a genre.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047573/

Arguments about who ripped off who are irrelevant.

LuciusAR wrote:Giant bugs have been a staple of sci-fi since sci-fi first came into existence as a genre.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047573/

Arguments about who ripped off who are irrelevant.

I don't think it's about who ripped off who. More a case of who was influenced by what,and could something different or unique be introduced that wasn't "similar" or a clone.

Oh lets see

Also, im not talking about who thought about giant space bugs first. Im talking about and have been talking about
copying other's design.
Giger:


GW:



Zerg:

*Double post seems to have pressed quote instead of edit.

The old ravenors were snake things that did not fit in with the Xenomorph-Queen-Head look that the new hive tyrant, warrior, zoanthrope, etc. used. The new version just updated the model to fit in with all the other models. It just so happens that it looks sorta like a hydralisk.
A. It's not like they changed it just to copy the hydralisk. They changed it to fit in with the rest of the tyranids.
B. This is basically the only place where one could *argue* that GW "copied" something that blizzard did. It is a very flimsy point to use to try to argue that GW copied blizzard.
C. Blizzard blatantly copied GW a lot more than you could even begin to argue vice versa.

"Also, im not talking about who thought about giant space bugs first. Im talking about and have been talking about
copying other's design. "
Right, it doesn't really matter who thought of them first. What you are trying to say is that GW copied Blizzard. What I am saying is that you are wrong: the exact opposite happened. You say that GW copied Giger and Blizzard. GW obviously copied Giger. GW did not copy Blizzard. Blizzard did copy GW.

starcraft was planned to be a 40K game, but they never got the rights/approval

the zerg and terran are a direct copy from 40K, 40K predates starcraft

starcraft copied 40K

ph34r wrote:The old ravenors were snake things that did not fit in with the Xenomorph-Queen-Head look that the new hive tyrant, warrior, zoanthrope, etc. used. The new version just updated the model to fit in with all the other models. It just so happens that it looks sorta like a hydralisk.
A. It's not like they changed it just to copy the hydralisk. They changed it to fit in with the rest of the tyranids.
B. This is basically the only place where one could *argue* that GW "copied" something that blizzard did. It is a very flimsy point to use to try to argue that GW copied blizzard.
C. Blizzard blatantly copied GW a lot more than you could even begin to argue vice versa.

"Also, im not talking about who thought about giant space bugs first. Im talking about and have been talking about
copying other's design. "
Right, it doesn't really matter who thought of them first. What you are trying to say is that GW copied Blizzard. What I am saying is that you are wrong: the exact opposite happened. You say that GW copied Giger and Blizzard. GW obviously copied Giger. GW did not copy Blizzard. Blizzard did copy GW.

I wouldn't dream of suggesting that GW has copied more of Blizzard than vice versa, but I think a case can be made for the Tau..

Just like the Protoss, they are blue. ()
Just like the Protoss, they had a civil war with different castes (iirc they were castes.. maybe tribes - long time since I read the SC manual ).
Just like the Protoss, they had a sped up evolution (only implied in the case of the Tau, while directly part of their history for the Protoss - by the Xel'Naga.. which are basically the SC version of the "Old Ones").
The whole Greater Good thing is somewhat similiar to the "Path of the Khala", as both philosophies were taken up to end the in-fighting.

Anyway, the Protoss certainly borrows quite a bit from other Sci-Fi races such as the Eldar or the Predators, but still - they are fairly similiar to the Tau.

I think all of you got off topic here. The OP is not about who copied what.

On topic: I believe the 40k world needs a big furry race that suggests strength and power but is ultimately laughable (aka wookie).

wow.

Originally, the tyranids and genestealers were two different races in 40k. the genesteales were based of of the "fluf" of the "Aliens" cannon, about absorbing the genetic material of a host organism to reproduce,hence hybrids. In the original artwork, there was no head, just a gaping maw with feeder tendrils. there was not much spimilarity with Gieger's phalic designs.

here is the first description of a tyranid:
"They have evolved over countless millennia within the hive fleets. They are centauroid in appearance, with six spindly limbs. The rear limbs have webbed appendages which serve as both hands and feet, helping to stabilize the creature in the lo-gravity of the hive fleet shifts. The frong limbs are manipulative, having double thumbs, while the middle limbs are hooved and from the primary locamotive limbs." The accompanying picture very closly resembled the current gaunt holding a flesh bore. The tryand range was then expanded with the tyranid warrior (as can be seen here http://www.solegends.com/citcat9x3/c92399tyrwarriors-01.htm)model as well as the "screamer killer" carnifex. I prefer the second sculpting they made however; http://www.nugax.com/WH40K/Warriors.html. It was around this time that GW made Hive War for Epic, which most of the curent unit types of the tyranid race were introduced, esp monsterout creatures and bio-titians. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hive_War
I would have to venture that the tyranids are pretty much GWs original concept/ IP, and it is more likely that starcraft stole the zerg from GW.

If anyone has a copy of the 2nd edition tyranid codex, it would be extremly helpful to this discussion.

oh wow, how did I get off topic. They actually have quite a list of races already in the 40 mythos that have never been fully explored. The ancient Slann, the Jokaero, Zoats (a tyranid bio/mind slave), the Ambull.

Personally, I wish that they would flesh out the Necrons as well as the Tau empire more.

As far as new races go, well, I think that the current rules for psycic powers are rather weak, and that they fail to give a truly psychic feel to the eldar, so maybe a new race that has NO guns at all, just psychic powers, would be interestic, and would help make the witch hunters army more viable.

I want to see them introduce that dwarf like race that gave the tau their ion cannon. Starts with a D or something.

I see your point about psy powers being kinda pathetic... Especially us BA players. We have a whopping 3 powers for the entire chapter, and we can't use the vanilla SM ones either. :(

I would like to see a psychically capable force too.

Some groups that exist in the wider entertainment sphere, not all would be useful in 40K though.

Pixies, fairies (think Tinkerbell)

Androids or borg type civ

don't know what you'd call it, but like the undead sand army in the Mummy movie. Basically you'd have a squad that was indestructable and controlled by a sorceror or similar. Kill the sorceror and the squad ceases to exist with the sorceror being able to stay up to say 24" away from the squad.

army of angels

Giants

Non-imperial humans who are free from chaos. Maybe a relic of the original human empire.

A non immaterium form of elemental/demon that uses the life force rather than the warp for its energy (or is the warp everything?).

shapeshifters - as in able to transform into any shape they want

Isn't the last two the C-tan, and adeptus mechanicus kinda fit one of the first ones on that list. as for the indestructable undead that would be thousand sons.

Squats will never make a return, IMO.

They were gak when they were on sale, that's why GW stopped them.
People only bang on about them now because they can't have them any more. Face it, they sucked..

Fluff-wise, the nids gave them all a healthy dose of OMNOMNOM, so there's no coming back from that. Please kindly ignore the Squig fluff.