Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Honor Guard: The Etheral may be accompanied by an Honor Guard of Veteran Fire Warriors who have chosen to forgo the normal progression to battlesuit pilot and then Commander. The Honor Guard is chosen as a normal Fire Warrior team (it does not count as the compulsory choice), but does not take up an additional Force Organisation slot. These Veteran Fire Warriors cost an additional 2 points over the basic cost, and each benefits from +1 Ballistic Skill, but otherwise have the same unit size, weapons and options.

Recall that other troops that don't take but force organization slots can score, so the question is if the honor guard are troops.

I know it may sound as if they score, but my vote is on a no.

I reason that:

1) They are not purchased from a troops selection, but from an HQ selection.

2) They are not ordinary Fire warriors but veteran Fire Warriors

3) The other units that score yet not take up a fore org slot (i.e. chaos SM lesser daemons) are bought as a troops choice.

This is IMHO is GW's cheap way to offer an extra unit without having to use up more codex/ink space.

This is totally my opinion on the matter though. However I do believe that RAW specifically states that only 'troop allowances' (pg. 90 RB) can score.

I think unless they fall under one of the troops choices in the force organisation chart they dont come from your "troops allowance" and therefore cannot be scoring.

What are these other units that don't take up force organization slots but can score?

They are troops,they are fire warriors and fire warriors can be found in the troop section.

No they cannot. It's the exact same situation as a Broodlord's Genestealer retinue. They do not count as a Troops Slot on the FoC so they cannot score, even if their profile is from a Troops Choice.

check out page 90, they have to be one of your troop allowances. Or basically be a troops choice.

Edit: And you do not *purchase* them as a troops choice, but from a HQ selection (just like Genestealer retinues, DA and SM Honor guards, and such...) The fact that they may be Fire warriors doesn't mean they are troops choices.

This thread has been mod-nuked due to Gwar! and Blackarandras both pushing each other further into an argument that has no reason to be occuring.

Anyone who wishes to further post in this thread better feel like responding in a polite and friendly manner because anyone who doesn't is going to get a nice long suspension because frankly I'm tired of cleaning up threads that shouldn't need moderation in the first place.

Have a nice day!

I think its pretty clear. though I'm not going to dig out my book and start quoting pages. the scoring units area of the book says that units from your *TROOPS* selections count as scoring.

this cuts both ways! my ork list has a unit of meganobz that are taken as a troops choice because I have a warboss.. this means they are a scoring unit.

but if you have some sort of commander (broodlord, ethereal, etc) that allows you to take a troops unit as a retinue.. they're no longer part of the 6 slots of troops choices.

if you were to record a roster, would you really try to list the honor guard, or the broodlord's genestealers under your troops? could you really count them towards your compulsory? no you wouldn't

you could try to argue that they can be deployed in dawn of war, but then they're coming in as a retinue to an HQ choice, not as a troops choice. they collectively count as a single unit for reserve rolls, deepstriking rolls, etc.

so if you had to roll for them as a single unit, what makes you think they're some magic split hq/troops unit? the reality is the codex says they do not use up part of the force org chart, so they do not count as basic troops.

NaZ

Would Lesser Chaos Demons from the Chaos Marines codex count as scouring then since they do not take up a Troop slot?

Lesser Daemons have a Specific rule saying to treat them as troops:
Page 102: Units of Summoned Lesser Daemons do not use up any force organisation chart selection, but are otherwise treated as a Troops unit.

So yes, they do count as scoring.

Page 102 of the CSM Codex says to treat them as troops.

Edit- A little late.

I think the real question is, why are you fielding an Ethereal?

RustyKnight wrote:I think the real question is, why are you fielding an Ethereal?

I really wanted to say this but I decided to be nice

I'm also fielding an Ethereal, since I feel like paying for bonding for every squad is a waste (adds up to well over 100 points if I were to bond the whole army, or just 60 to bond all four of my FW squads... vs 50 for an ethereal) and if you can hide him but stay in sight of your troops, they'll get to re-roll their morale checks.

I know it's not much, but it's something

But I agree, I wouldn't count his honour guard as scoring... it seems more like a retinue than anything else.

Since they don't count as the compulsory FW squad or take up a Troop slot I'd say no, not scoring.

agreed. what matters most is the slot you're actually using for the unit in regards to counting as scoring. if you're adding a troops retinue to an HQ IC, it counts as a single HQ slot = not scoring. belial (DA special character) makes elite termies use troops slots = scoring.

Not scoring. Same with other units that can move around the FOC due to HQs (Warboss with Nobz, Belial with DW Termies). It doesn't matter where in the codex the entry is located, it matters what FOC they fill in the army list.

Reviving this thread... are the honor guard still not scoring? It takes a unit of fire warriors and gives them +1 BS.

 Tomb King wrote:
Reviving this thread... are the honor guard still not scoring? It takes a unit of fire warriors and gives them +1 BS.

Still not scoring.

 Tomb King wrote:
Reviving this thread... are the honor guard still not scoring? It takes a unit of fire warriors and gives them +1 BS.

What has changed that would lead you to believe that their status is any different now?

They're still selected as a HQ unit, and HQ units still don't score.

barnowl wrote:

 Tomb King wrote:
Reviving this thread... are the honor guard still not scoring? It takes a unit of fire warriors and gives them +1 BS.

Still not scoring.

still necro.

Locked for necro.