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I wanted to start a thread about some of the more radical Guard builds that people are brainstorming. Anyone considering 9 Banewolfs, 300 Furious Charging Guardsmen, etc.

This is an "Alpha Strike" list I came up with. Its not geared toward any particular meta, its basically built around the idea of a first turn Grey Knight Terminator Charge.

HQ:
Command Platoon w/ Creed
4 Vets w/ 4 x Melta
Astropath

HQ (does not take FOC):
Ministorum Priest

HQ (does not take FOC):
Ministorum Priest

HQ:
Grey Knight Brother-Captain w/ Hood
4 x Grey Knight Terminators

Elite:
Grey Knight Brother-Captain
4 x Grey Knight Terminators

Troops:
10 Vets w/ 3 x Melta

Troops:
10 Vets w/ 3 x Melta

Troops:
10 Vets w/ 3 x Melta

Fast Attack:
2 x Banewolfs w/ Dozer Blades, Heavy Flamer

Fast Attack:
3 x Valkyrie

Fast Attack:
3 x Valkyrie

Each Valk Squadron loads up 1 Grey Knight Termie squad and 2 Melta Squads. The Priests are attached to each GK Termie squad to re-roll hits. Ideally you want to go first. Scout to within 12" of the opposing units. First turn, termies disembark 2", move 6", assault 6", 1.5" base means you should be in charge range. Valks then move and unload Melta shooters. Banewolfs (who also scout because of Creed) move 12" and shoot Chemical Cannon + Heavy Flamer.

If you don't go first there are a few ways to play it. One choice if he's spread out you can stay on the board and scout to within 12" of part of his army and hopefully don't lose too much to his first round of shooting. Or you can hold everything in reserve and outflank. You also have 12 Str8 AP3 pie plates at your disposal that can affect your decisions.

Definately want to go first with this army but does not auto-lose to going second. Will probably not go well, however, if opponent steals initiative.

Thoughts? What other radical ideas are people coming up with? I also thought instead of the Termies, what else could wreak havoc on the first turn?

How are you even including Grey Knights in a guard army?

^^ Agreed

Damonhunters codex allows for any Guard or Marine arly to take allied GK's. 1 HQ, 1 Elite, 2 Troops, 1 FA.

DarthDiggler wrote:1 HQ, 1 Elite, 2 Troops, 1 FA.

What are you talking about? 1 HQ of what for who?

One Daemonhunters HQ, 1 Daemonhunter Elite, 2 Daemonhunter Troops, ect. Page 21 in the DH book.

*reads*

Very interesting idea......

It probably wouldn't work too against hoard or just anything troop heavy, since a line of troops can block terminators from killing important units, and melta-guardsman don't kill hoard. The valks can of course drop plates, but 6 valks against an entire army of shooting probably don't cut it.

Going second would be hell on this list, not because the valks gets shot down but opponent can just run away from its cargo thus denying terminators and melta troops from killing anything important on turn one, after shooting the valks of course.

Outflanking everything is risky as hell, since one can end up with only one unit for far too long. It doesn't matter if you have a few hundred points in them, just stun the transports and its messed up seriously. Many armies should be able to stun/immobilized two av12 vehicles from shooting a turn....

I also don't think this would work against a all reserves army like daemons, since you can't turn one assault anything and their units can come anywhere.
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Suggestions:
have 3 units of valk/vendetta and trade banewolfs with some other scouting unit that comes with creed. Maybe a outflaking demolisher? The main problem with the list is that you only have two mobile units and it can only kill two units a turn (either move 12" and drop a melta squad, or move 6" and fire plates) against a scattered opponent.

Maybe one can think about an all outflanking army with al'rahem and marbo

The standard kit Valkyrie missiles are not 5" blasts, they are merely ordinance, meaning they can only fire one a turn and they roll two dice and pick the highest on armor penetration rolls.

To get pie plates, you need the rocket pods, and those are definitely not S8 Ap3, although they do kill hordes like crazy.


Honestly of this whole list, the part I like the best is scouting Bane Wolves. That seems nasty enough that it should be a requirement in Creed armies. 18" scout + 12" move + 8" templates mean a vast amount of enemy troops can be destroyed first turn.

Against squadrons, all stunned results are treated as shaken.

Biophysic wrote:To get pie plates, you need the rocket pods, and those are definitely not S8 Ap3, although they do kill hordes like crazy.

They drop 2 S4 pie plates a turn, plus the multilaser. That is VERY nasty, considering you can deepstrike the valks as well.

you may want to replace creed with straken for the furious charge and counter attack.