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 Robisagg wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

natpri771 wrote:
Knights. I'm sorry, but there is just no justification for a two unit codex.

Worse, it's a one-unit codex that can take either of two different weapon upgrades.

A one unit codex that has had most of its content invalidated with the change of editions. It's literally a dataslate now.

what precisely was invalidated?

No faction should be let go, granted there are groups I dislike (Space Mahreens knights, and csm) but that being said I can clearly see their place and just because I dislike some fluff\looks doesn't mean I'm such a snob that no one else can enjoy them.

BrianDavion wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
This thread seems kind of prophetic as i just heard a rumor that GW are planning a big shake up of 40k in the vain of the End Times and the forthcoming changes to fantasy.

I doubt that very much. 40k is doing very well, WFB was... less so

Actually looking at the financials 40k is doing ok ish at best, it only looks good when compared with the abysmal whfb.

Remember the often quoted reference that space marines out sell the entire whfb range, well that means they sell more than any of the other 40k armies so there's plenty of dead weight to look at trimming.

SeanDrake wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
This thread seems kind of prophetic as i just heard a rumor that GW are planning a big shake up of 40k in the vain of the End Times and the forthcoming changes to fantasy.

I doubt that very much. 40k is doing very well, WFB was... less so

Actually looking at the financials 40k is doing ok ish at best, it only looks good when compared with the abysmal whfb.

Remember the often quoted reference that space marines out sell the entire whfb range, well that means they sell more than any of the other 40k armies so there's plenty of dead weight to look at trimming.

IIRC, those numbers had WHFB amounting 8% of total GW sales or so. Which means that most likely most 40k armies sold better than the whole WHFB.

Also, GW seems to be expanding the list of factions with all the mini-codexes popping up lately, so I doubt any End Times like event is in plan.

I dont think they will do what they did to fantasy to 40k, it just wouldn't work

 KommissarKiln wrote:
Based on the fact I'm seeing only 9 votes for CSM but many votes for SM, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that it's not ALL SM chapters people are considering removing.


....right?

Actually, removing all marines would probably help the meta a lot.

Remove all marines except chaos marines. Remove IKs. Narratively, the SMs were all corrupt, but driven off by the Imperial Army during the heresy. The IG now solely defends the Imperium from the raids of Chaos.

Better, just remove all variations of marines. Or all humans, actually. That would make the setting actually interesting. We all know the IoM is going to win whatever new story/ game/ whatever comes out, because that's how GW swing these days. There's no suspense in that, no grim darkness. We know the outcome; it's always the same. Forgeworld publications aside, that rings true. Remove the IoM and the setting actually gets interesting.

My opinion, sorry not sorry.

Imperial Knights need to go back to Apocalypse. Everything else is fine.

 liquidjoshi wrote:
Remove all marines except chaos marines. Remove IKs. Narratively, the SMs were all corrupt, but driven off by the Imperial Army during the heresy. The IG now solely defends the Imperium from the raids of Chaos.

Better, just remove all variations of marines. Or all humans, actually. That would make the setting actually interesting. We all know the IoM is going to win whatever new story/ game/ whatever comes out, because that's how GW swing these days. There's no suspense in that, no grim darkness. We know the outcome; it's always the same. Forgeworld publications aside, that rings true. Remove the IoM and the setting actually gets interesting.

My opinion, sorry not sorry.

You speak the truth! They need to kill off the IoM and let them get absorbed into the Tau Empire Mwahahaha

I voted Imperial Knights. This isn't the right scale for them and they shouldn't be their own faction.

I wish Space Marines and Imperial guard were one army: Imperium.

I wish Chaos and Daemons were one army: Chaos.

Other than that, I like the factions.

i personally dont think ig and sm should be put together but if it were down i could imagine it being odd and quite fun. i do think chaos should be rolled into one though

 the clone wrote:
i personally dont think ig and sm should be put together but if it were down i could imagine it being odd and quite fun. i do think chaos should be rolled into one though

The badab war PDF(Tyrant's legion?) was interesting, while being subpar on TT.

 Grimdark wrote:
, while being subpar on TT.

Care to give some reasons to support your point though? Was is the codex creep or something?

 sing your life wrote:

 Grimdark wrote:
, while being subpar on TT.

Care to give some reasons to support your point though? Was is the codex creep or something?

50% codex creep
50% problems with mix and match rules/units from SM/IG. You basically trade in the possibility to have some SM with IG with all the bling they usually get when in their individual codicies. For example they both have veterans, but for tyrant's legion they are veterans lite (more like regular guardsmen).
You have 3 troops... if I remember correctly you have to get some conscripts and then choose between SM (without some heavy options) and an in-between guardsmen and veterans.
Elite section is meh
Fast attack are bikes and hellhounds
Heavy is AMAZING

YMMV

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Come on man, it's Primarchs.

Yeah. Anything depicting them through something else than half-forgotten legend will suck imho. But that is just me.

..Except there are still people alive who first-hand witnessed the Primarchs in action. You can't have real legends when there's till at leas two first party witnesses.

Like many other posters have said, Imperial Knights represent GW trying to further inflate the game, thereby devaluing the miniatures we all pay a lot of money for. Obviously this drift has been going on since 3rd edition, but Knights imo were an attempt by GW to say "see, aren't superheavies cool? You should use them ALL THE TIME!!"

I mean, I really like the model, but the scale at which it functions (especially in large groups) is beyond what a significant proportion of 40k armies were meant to handle. I suppose if IK had been introduced following some of the superheavy stipulations FW has imposed, the problem really wouldn't have been that bad. But GW seems to put profit beyond functionality, so here we are.

Beyond the Knights, I would like to see SM factions consolidated into one or two books, simply because the level of special snowflake they have gets tiresome.

"What are you playing, Space Marines?

No no, they are the special Viking Space Marines. They have almost all of the same units as Space Marines, with the same troops, stats, and vehicles, but these guyz have wolves, man!"

It's not that I hate Space Wolves (although their fluff has always been pretty poor and they would have been more interesting having turned to Khorne), but there are more Marine armies than necessary by a large margin.

I think I'm going to be sick after reading a few lines of Primarch fluff. Jeez, and people called Draigo out for being a Mary Sue...

 Mumblez wrote:
I think I'm going to be sick after reading a few lines of Primarch fluff. Jeez, and people called Draigo out for being a Mary Sue...

Yeah, I must not remember the few HH books I read (through Eisenstein), because I couldn't recall these guys taking bullets to the face like their flesh wouldn't be destroyed (stronger than metal, so kewl!!!).

I really don't remember the old fluff talking about Primarchs having *literal* superpowers!

 Accolade wrote:

 Mumblez wrote:
I think I'm going to be sick after reading a few lines of Primarch fluff. Jeez, and people called Draigo out for being a Mary Sue...

Yeah, I must not remember the few HH books I read (through Eisenstein), because I couldn't recall these guys taking bullets to the face like their flesh wouldn't be destroyed (stronger than metal, so kewl!!!).

I really don't remember the old fluff talking about Primarchs having *literal* superpowers!

Yeah. It probably doesn't help that I'm 'mad cuz I'm bad' considering I've fought against Horus 3 times so far and he has made a mockery of my orks every time.

Seriously, after reading that page I've lost all motivation to ever get into the Horus Heresy series. It's probably a good thing anyway, considering BL will spread the story out so much that it'll never be over...

Now just one mystery remains... Why in Gork's name do people like the HH stuff if it's Primarch porn?

None, I don't think any are bad (though all contain something stupid or other the universe would be better without). If I absolutely had to choose one army to go it would be the Necrons, but mainly because I find their aesthetics the least appealing -repetiive details, limited textures and scope for coulour schemes. They have some good looking flyers and elites but the basic warriors are my least favourite of all basic troops in the game. Repetitive details, limited variance and those awful green gun tubes everywhere.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Come on man, it's Primarchs.

Yeah. Anything depicting them through something else than half-forgotten legend will suck imho. But that is just me.

..Except there are still people alive who first-hand witnessed the Primarchs in action. You can't have real legends when there's till at leas two first party witnesses.

...At least two loyalists, I assume you mean.

There's also many, many more VotLW around.

Let the culling begin.

IK - out gone see ya. Enjoy your apoc dataslate

Merger of GK, SOB, assassins, and now the admech. - We call you IOM Allies

DA, SW, BA - gone and merged into one book. We call you Divergent Marines. You can keep your special units and what not, but loose access to 50% of the C:SM codex. You know, so you can actually be divergent.

DE, Eldar, Harliquins - All merged into one book.

Codex deamons - gone, killed, and destroyed. Choice units moved back into codex C:CSM to help them become once again not just angry spiky marines but a book with some flair and different units.

Pretty much everything else can stay the same. There are just too many independent factions right now that would be better off being relegated as dedicated allies or just combined to help speed up the release schedule. The bloat has just gotten too big to maintain. And it really shows.

 Jayden63 wrote:
Let the culling begin.

IK - out gone see ya. Enjoy your apoc dataslate

Merger of GK, SOB, assassins, and now the admech. - We call you IOM Allies

DA, SW, BA - gone and merged into one book. We call you Divergent Marines. You can keep your special units and what not, but loose access to 50% of the C:SM codex. You know, so you can actually be divergent.

DE, Eldar, Harliquins - All merged into one book.

Codex deamons - gone, killed, and destroyed. Choice units moved back into codex C:CSM to help them become once again not just angry spiky marines but a book with some flair and different units.

Pretty much everything else can stay the same. There are just too many independent factions right now that would be better off being relegated as dedicated allies or just combined to help speed up the release schedule. The bloat has just gotten too big to maintain. And it really shows.

^^This guy knows his schitt^^

Sisters of Battle. I mean what's the point of having them anymore.

Harlequins. I really don't see why they have their own codex. Between exodites and the many craftworlds, there's 100 things they could do with eldar that would be more exciting.

Ohh, I forgot, Im actually adding in one codex. Codex Lords of War. All superheavies, titans, IKs, wraith knights, dreadknights, riptides, some nids (of which I admit to not knowing much about). Etc. All those units that give standard games fits go in here. This allows guys like Logan, gazzy, etc to be used in regular games without inviting titans to the party.

Now I wouldn't be apposed to having buffed up special CHaracters show up in LOW, but make them worthy of the slot.

 Wyzilla wrote:
..Except there are still people alive who first-hand witnessed the Primarchs in action. You can't have real legends when there's till at leas two first party witnesses.

Being that old does things to your mind. And also, at least one of them is a space wolf, so you can count on him to embellish things a LOT .

 Ashiraya wrote:
There's also many, many more VotLW around.

Yeah, but not really trustworthy source. Especially Kharn. Because when you ask him how tall the primarchs were, for instance, he always answer “Kill, maim, burn!”, which is not really helpful.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Being that old does things to your mind. And also, at least one of them is a space wolf, so you can count on him to embellish things a LOT

Easy, just ask him about the Khan.

The Space Wolves respected the White Scars, so you can expect him to not downplay them like he would if you asked about Magnus, but they were not fanboys for Jaghatai in the same way.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Being that old does things to your mind. And also, at least one of them is a space wolf, so you can count on him to embellish things a LOT

Easy, just ask him about the Khan.

The Space Wolves respected the White Scars, so you can expect him to not downplay them like he would if you asked about Magnus, but they were not fanboys for Jaghatai in the same way.

thing to keep in mind is the IoM wouldn't trust a CSM to give a fair account. even if he was telling the truth. "ohh yeah we started the imperial cult. and your emperor punished us for it. he's no god" -truth from a word bearer, perhaps, but would anyone belive a CSM telling them Lorgar started the Imperial cult?

sisters of battle, obviously GW doesen't give a rats ass about them, i'm not sure why gk was voted the most...there is a fine line between removal and balance...sisters of battle are like grandmas denturesyou know you need to put them in the garbage, but dont want to let the memory die, or missing cleaning them