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I want to know what are the other Chaos competitive builds other than lash and plague marine spam. I want something different like a mix of troops with DP.

rcm2216 wrote:I want something different like a mix of troops with DP.

Ummm... well Dual La-... oh yeah...

Lots of Oblits? Or uh... Oh yeah! Zerkers in Land raiders with some termies in land raiders! Lots of land raiders! but that isn't what your looking for...

You could try MoT or MoN termies + zerkers with 2 lords on bikes. If you aren't running lash and are not trying for a mech list you might want to think about lords since you can hide them easier.

Honestly, Lash is only really good against one competitive build: nob bikers.

Against most smart 5th ed builds, lash is going to be of limited use due to mechanization anyways.

But dual lash, lots of oblits and lots of PMs is still the most competitive build chaos has (even if lash isnt so good against tanks).

If you want a super-competitive build that will win you tournaments then the CSM codex doesnt offer you much variety. There isnt really anything that will offer you a mix of troops. The best you can get in putting some berzerkers or noise marines in with your plague marines. The only other thing that chaos can do is landraider spam, but that doesnt give you any variation in troops and only works in larger games because you have to spend so many points of landraiders.

If you want an army that gives you more competitive variety look at orks or IG.

Take Land Raiders full of Berzerkers with icons, and then deepstriking terminators with combi-weapons of your choice. It works rather well.

extrenm(54) wrote:Take Land Raiders full of Berzerkers with icons, and then deepstriking terminators with combi-weapons of your choice. It works rather well.

It will probably not fare well in the new metagame. Raiders are just easy meat to Mech Vet IG, Vulkan Marines and Mech Tau all of which I would expect to see a lot more of.

The problem with the current Chaos Codex is that Chaos Mech is just more expensive than any other Mech build so you have fewer transports with fewer cool options. It is also vulnerable to the Demon builds that are a likley response to the shift towards mech by everyone else ( Mono Tzeentch Horde )

Something like this...

sorcerer lash (or something else if you really hate lash)
sorcerer lash

5x chosen 5x meltas rhino
5x chosen 5x meltas rhino
5x chosen 5x meltas rhino

10x marines 2x meltas rhino
10x marines 2x meltas rhino
10x marines 2x meltas rhino

5x havocs 4x plasma guns rhino
5x havocs 4x plasma guns rhino

Put the sorcerers in the havoc units. Outflank the chosen, the lash is in there, but it is really just in there because their isn't really much else to buy for an hq slot. I'd really only use it to pull people off of objectives, or to pull someone into rapid fire range of the other havoc unit.

29 special weapons, 2 psychic powers and points to spare. You can buy pfists for the marines, you can buy a predator, etc. I'd give respect to something like this with a bunch of my lists.

extrenm(54) wrote:Take Land Raiders full of Berzerkers with icons, and then deepstriking terminators with combi-weapons of your choice. It works rather well.



It will probably not fare well in the new metagame. Raiders are just easy meat to Mech Vet IG, Vulkan Marines and Mech Tau all of which I would expect to see a lot more of.

The problem with the current Chaos Codex is that Chaos Mech is just more expensive than any other Mech build so you have fewer transports with fewer cool options. It is also vulnerable to the Demon builds that are a likley response to the shift towards mech by everyone else ( Mono Tzeentch Horde )

Even with the increase of mech armies, I would not write off builds like this.

Shep wrote:Something like this...

sorcerer lash (or something else if you really hate lash)
sorcerer lash

5x chosen 5x meltas rhino
5x chosen 5x meltas rhino
5x chosen 5x meltas rhino

10x marines 2x meltas rhino
10x marines 2x meltas rhino
10x marines 2x meltas rhino

5x havocs 4x plasma guns rhino
5x havocs 4x plasma guns rhino

Put the sorcerers in the havoc units. Outflank the chosen, the lash is in there, but it is really just in there because their isn't really much else to buy for an hq slot. I'd really only use it to pull people off of objectives, or to pull someone into rapid fire range of the other havoc unit.

29 special weapons, 2 psychic powers and points to spare. You can buy pfists for the marines, you can buy a predator, etc. I'd give respect to something like this with a bunch of my lists.

To get away from lash perhaps two tzeentch sorcerers? dont know what powers to give them but yeah thats some sick firepower. I would run it with 3 AC/HB preds instead of the Havocs as 15 meltaguns should do just fine killing Terminators and the list is a little weak against green tide or guy spam. I know both my Mech Vet and Vulcan Mech lists would respect this build.

Even the biggest death star would hesitate facing 19 melta guns to the face.

It would certainly give Hive Tyrants w/ obligatory 3 Guard Meat Walls something to think about if you can get close enough.

bigtmac68 wrote:

Shep wrote:Something like this...

sorcerer lash (or something else if you really hate lash)
sorcerer lash

5x chosen 5x meltas rhino
5x chosen 5x meltas rhino
5x chosen 5x meltas rhino

10x marines 2x meltas rhino
10x marines 2x meltas rhino
10x marines 2x meltas rhino

5x havocs 4x plasma guns rhino
5x havocs 4x plasma guns rhino

Put the sorcerers in the havoc units. Outflank the chosen, the lash is in there, but it is really just in there because their isn't really much else to buy for an hq slot. I'd really only use it to pull people off of objectives, or to pull someone into rapid fire range of the other havoc unit.

29 special weapons, 2 psychic powers and points to spare. You can buy pfists for the marines, you can buy a predator, etc. I'd give respect to something like this with a bunch of my lists.

To get away from lash perhaps two tzeentch sorcerers? dont know what powers to give them but yeah thats some sick firepower. I would run it with 3 AC/HB preds instead of the Havocs as 15 meltaguns should do just fine killing Terminators and the list is a little weak against green tide or guy spam. I know both my Mech Vet and Vulcan Mech lists would respect this build.

Even the biggest death star would hesitate facing 19 melta guns to the face.

Yeah I'm not really that familiar with psychic firepower in that codex, but i think they have a good template power in there right? That'd be good.

You have to take the havocs unfortunately. Because the chosen lose scout if you join an IC and the troops dont have room for him in their ride.

You could drop to 1 havoc unit and 1 sorcerer, and then fill out with defilers or predators of any variety.

Well, if you try the cults you can make some interesting and competetive builds.

Death Guard
T6 Flying Princes with Wind or Warptime
Rhinos full of PM's with dual melta
Havocs or Preds

Thousand Sons
4+ Save Flying Princes with Warptime and Wind
Rhinos full of Thousand Sons with Bolt or Wind Sorc's
Havocs or Preds

Emperor's Children
Lash-Sorcs or whatever
Rhinos full of Emperors Children with Sonic Weapons
Havocs or Preds

World Eaters
2x Flying Princes or Kharn
Rhinos full of berzerkers
Havocs or Preds

As you can see a theme, cult marines loaded up in Rhino's work pretty well, and can still be supported by standard mech elements, and each Power has a unique HQ type that is pretty darn good. I think thousand sons or deathguard have the potential to be the best in this type of build, but don't sell your cult troops short. You can even throw lesser demons in if you have points left over to claim objectives end game.

How's this:
250
Ahriman

312
9 Chosen
Aspiring Champion. Power Fist
Icon of Chaos Glory
1 Meltagun
1 Power Fists
1 Pair of Lightning Claws
1 Power Weapon
Chaos Rhino

105
3 Terminators
2 Combi-Meltas (Or Flamers, Or Plasma, Whatever)
Heavy Flamer

2x
335
10 plague marines
2 Plasma Guns
Plague Champion
Power Fist, Plasma Pistol
Chaos Rhino

225
3 Obliterators

250
2 Vindicators

Ahriman loads up with the chosen gets into CC, and starts handing out gifts of chaos. Rest is pretty self explanatory
1850 total, the chosen could probably be outfitted better.

What's the best way to deliver an icon within 6-12" of your enemy? It's going to have to move at least 18", and survive two turns of fire.

I think one possible theme that could be very effective if played properly would be loads of Termicide and Obliterators Deep Striking into the middle of your enemy, especially a mechline, and letting fly with melta fire. They're no slouch in close combat, either.

Think of that scene in Riddick when the squad of a dozen Necromongers is running through the militia ranks, getting shot down, but the single Guy with Stick Nuke survives and delivers his Omega strike.

That's how I foresee the army; as long as that icon can survive, you can teleport in and start ripping vehicles apart with units powerful enough to withstand countercharge.

Thoughts?

i always wanted to try something like this:

tzeentch demon prince, wings, bolt of change
tzeentch demon prince, wings, bolt of change

9 thousand sons 1 sorc with doombolt rhino
9 thousand sons 1 sorc with doombolt rhino
9 thousand sons 1 sorc with doombolt rhino

10 terminators, MoT, 2 chainfists, 2 heavy flamers, 7 combi weapons of choice

defiler
defiler

if i was ever to deviate from nurgle again (made 2500 points of slaanesh, painted it, played it 3 times and sold it) it would be these guys. 2+/4+ oe 3+/4+ across the board.

i would just walk the termies up the center, set the rhinos where they are needed, flank the DP's and stage the defilers based on who i was playing against.

sourclams wrote:What's the best way to deliver an icon within 6-12" of your enemy? It's going to have to move at least 18", and survive two turns of fire.

I think one possible theme that could be very effective if played properly would be loads of Termicide and Obliterators Deep Striking into the middle of your enemy, especially a mechline, and letting fly with melta fire. They're no slouch in close combat, either.

That's how I foresee the army; as long as that icon can survive, you can teleport in and start ripping vehicles apart with units powerful enough to withstand countercharge.

Thoughts?

The best way I could think of (or at least the swiftest) is a biker squad with an IoN. Those are T 4(6), that can turbo boost with their bikes or charge a pretty good distance. Their main draw back is their high cost. 33 points a piece is not really what I'd call cost effective. And if they are taken down you are kind of screwed. For those hold overs that still pack lash and plan to use it every single game, they could be pushing back that gun line every turn. Here is something...

HQ:
Lord on Bike, MoS 125

Troops:
10x CSM, 2x Melta, Rhino 205
10x CSM, 2x Melta, Rhino 205 (I just really enjoy this troop core in an alternative competitive CSM list)
10x CSM, 2x Melta, Rhino 205

Elites:
3x Termies, 3x PFs, 3x Combi-Melta 135
3x Termies, 3x PFs, 3x Combi-Melta 135
3x Termies, 3x PFs, 3x Combi-Melta 135

Fast:
10x Chaos Bikers, IoN 380

Heavy:
3x Oblits 225
3x Oblits 225
3x Oblits 225

Now this list is very obvious. Your opponent will most likely know what is up if he looks at your list. Hopefully he will see a MoS Bike HQ and expect Lash. Then you may have a small element of surprise. First turn Turbo-boost somewhere the biker squad can hide a good deal of it's members in or alternatively you can just push straight up the center using the Rhinos as a wall to shield the biker squad. I'd suggest turning them sideways slightly so that each one may give the other in line cover then the final Rhino popping smoke. Then the following turn push forward again with the other two Rhinos covering the third's ass and popping smoke whilst still hiding that huge bike squad. However, if the bikes can assault something really solid, go for it. If they can stick themselves in combat for awhile and wait around a few turns, perfect.

The next few turns the CSMs are jumping out of the rhinos and blasting vehicles (if mech list) or assault into the front lines of whatever is there. Then all you have to do is pray your Icon survives and that you roll decently on reserves. The termies blow their combis on the drop then plow through whatever they can with their PFs. The Oblits will just hit the table killing anything in sight with massive versatile firepower.

Can Termicide really survive melta spam return fire from mech guard or marines?

thanks for all the feedback, great stuff ...........

Typeline wrote:

The best way I could think of (or at least the swiftest) is a biker squad with an IoN. Those are T 4(6), that can turbo boost with their bikes or charge a pretty good distance. Their main draw back is their high cost. 33 points a piece is not really what I'd call cost effective. And if they are taken down you are kind of screwed. For those hold overs that still pack lash and plan to use it every single game, they could be pushing back that gun line every turn. Here is something...

Good call. I'm going to try to incorporate that into my army list.

Can Termicide really survive melta spam return fire from mech guard or marines?

From Marines, probably not. From Guard, though, you only need one of them to survive, then you get into close combat and, quite probably, kill every single Guardsman.

What do you mean by "29 special weapons?" Warp Time only effects the sorcerer. Also, sorcerers with the MoT do not need a familiar, as they may already make two psychic tests per turn, and the mark unlocks a second power for them as well. Familiars are for non-Tzeentch sorcs who want to bring an extra power.

Evil Eli wrote:

willydstyle wrote:What do you mean by "29 special weapons?" Warp Time only effects the sorcerer. Also, sorcerers with the MoT do not need a familiar, as they may already make two psychic tests per turn, and the mark unlocks a second power for them as well. Familiars are for non-Tzeentch sorcs who want to bring an extra power.

Oh Crap! I was going off the top of my head, My bad. I don't play CMS, I was going with what i remembered from reading the CSM.

If you don't know the codex that well, why are you giving advice about playing it competitively?

willydstyle wrote:

Evil Eli wrote:

willydstyle wrote:What do you mean by "29 special weapons?" Warp Time only effects the sorcerer. Also, sorcerers with the MoT do not need a familiar, as they may already make two psychic tests per turn, and the mark unlocks a second power for them as well. Familiars are for non-Tzeentch sorcs who want to bring an extra power.

Oh Crap! I was going off the top of my head, My bad. I don't play CMS, I was going with what i remembered from reading the CSM.

If you don't know the codex that well, why are you giving advice about playing it competitively?

Really, Wow, OK.

I've had great success with a Mech Khorne army. I prefer taking just rhinos over 'raiders as it allows you to fit more 'zerkers into your list. Berzerkers with a power fist champ are more than a match for nearly everything. (Even against Nob Bikers if you can gang up on them which isn't that difficult if you keep your guys close together.) The only army I have particular difficulty against is Tau as they are able to keep their distance while putting a lot of fire on you. I usually support my 'zerks with a dakka pred and autocannon havocs (very useful for taking out enemy transports.) Then depending on the size of the game, i'll add in some melta-gun raptors and/or a squad of oblits.

termicides are not designed to survive. They make their points back on the deepstrike and shoot. If they survive, its a bonus.