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Last night I was playing against a friend's Eldar with my Orks. I had a Nob squad with a Painboy, giving the Nob squad the Feel No Pain (FNP) universal special rule. During the game, my friend's Warlock used some power or weapon (not sure which) that is the equivalent of a heavy flamer (S5, AP4). My friend argued that since my unit can never get an armour save against an AP4 weapon then they can't use their FNP. My argument was that since the rule says "any other wound against which no armour save can ever be taken" I would still get the FNP rule because cases exist where a model can get a save from an AP4 weapon.

Which of us is right, or are we both wrong? LOL!

if you keep reading the FNP rule it states when you can't use a FNP save, and against AP4 you can take on, its only against power weapons, power fists, monstrous creatures, instant death, AP1 and AP2 weapons, rending rolls of a 6, perils of the warp, dreadnought close combat, so basically if a terminator can take an armour save against it then yeah you can use FNP

statu wrote:if you keep reading the FNP rule it states when you can't use a FNP save, and against AP4 you can take on, its only against power weapons, power fists, monstrous creatures, instant death, AP1 and AP2 weapons, rending rolls of a 6, perils of the warp, dreadnought close combat, so basically if a terminator can take an armour save against it then yeah you can use FNP

QFT
Whether or not you can take FNP tests or not is determined by the weapon being used, not by the armor save of the model with FNP.

Thank you for your answers! The debate is in earnest over on the Warseer forums, and my friend is arguing quite vociferously against the interpretation you two answered with, and the interpretation of everyone else over at Warseer. It's a little bit too LOL over there for me. Once again, thank you!

The trouble is, while like all language it is an interpretation, its the only sensible one that can be used - otherwise the other bits in there are useless.

Can a termi / MAN make the save? You then get FNP.

Yeah, it does not look like your friend is going to listen to reason. It is like 18-1...and he still insists FNP would not happen.

Remember that a Plaguebearer has no armor save, thus never gets an armor save. They would be unable to use Feel no Pain against anything by your friend's rationale.

We should make a table for future reference because FNP questions seem to come up a lot.


FNP vs AP - = yes
FNP vs AP 6 = yes
FNP vs AP 5 = yes
FNP vs AP 4 = yes
FNP vs AP 3 = yes
FNP vs AP 2 = no
FNP vs AP 1 = no
FNP vs Tx2 = no
FNP vs S D = no
FNP vs Power weapons = no
FNP vs No retreat = ?????
FNP vs Gets Hot = ?????
FNP vs Perils of the warp = no
FNP vs Demon Weapon rolls of 1 = ?????


are there any I missed and can anyone fill in the blanks?

Why is FNP against Gets Hot in question? Gets hot allows armor saves, is not double-toughness strength (since it has no strength) so FNP is allowed.

IMHO you get FNP against No Retreat, cause it says that you get normal armour save against it, so a FNP should be allowed too.
Again with Gets Hot weapons which roll 1 for to hit.
Against Demon Weapon I think that you don't get the FNP as it's a attack that simply does not allow armour save. It has no AP value, so IMHO it is consindered as close combat attack which does not allow armour save and therefore does not grant FNP.

nyyman wrote:IMHO you get FNP against No Retreat, cause it says that you get normal armour save against it, so a FNP should be allowed too.
Again with Gets Hot weapons which roll 1 for to hit.
Against Demon Weapon I think that you don't get the FNP as it's a attack that simply does not allow armour save. It has no AP value, so IMHO it is consindered as close combat attack which does not allow armour save and therefore does not grant FNP.

These too. It really seems like there shouldn't be a question most of the time, it's a pretty straight-forward rule.

Wow I never realized you get FNP from no retreat... learned something new!

Orkeosaurus wrote:Remember that a Plaguebearer has no armor save, thus never gets an armor save. They would be unable to use Feel no Pain against anything by your friend's rationale.

QTF
Ohhh! Good one!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Deamon weapon no, becuase it does not allow armour saves.

FNP vs AP - = Yes
FNP vs AP 6 = Yes
FNP vs AP 5 = Yes
FNP vs AP 4 = Yes
FNP vs AP 3 = Yes
FNP vs AP 2 = No
FNP vs AP 1 = No
FNP vs Tx2 = No
FNP vs S D = No
FNP vs Power weapons = No
FNP vs No retreat = Yes
FNP vs Gets Hot = Yes
FNP vs Perils of the warp = No
FNP vs Demon Weapon rolls of 1 = No

Now With Moar Capital letters

Gwar- i think youre wrong on something

Daemon Weapon wounds on a 1 do not allow armour saves, therefore would hit the "never take an armour save" clause that denies FNP.

These are not the Droids you are looking for </Jedi>
My bad, That was a Rum Induced Typo

nosferatu1001 wrote:Gwar- i think youre wrong on something

Daemon Weapon wounds on a 1 do not allow armour saves, therefore would hit the "never take an armour save" clause that denies FNP.

Nope, you'd still get FNP, since there are conditions that do allow armor save you cannot claim that it never allows saves.

nostromo wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Gwar- i think youre wrong on something

Daemon Weapon wounds on a 1 do not allow armour saves, therefore would hit the "never take an armour save" clause that denies FNP.

Nope, you'd still get FNP, since there are conditions that do allow armor save you cannot claim that it never allows saves.

What are you talking about? If you roll a 1 on a daemon weapon, you may never make an armor save. You can make an invulnerable save, but never an armor save, therefore no FNP.

Yup, the fact that it does not cause a wound on 2-6 is irrelevant, because none of those results cause a wound. On a Roll of 1, it causes a wound with No armour saves ever allowed. That means no FnP allowed either.

Thanks for helping fill in the blanks. Reason I asked was because though I felt I knew the rule I wanted to double check.


Also, did we miss any codex or weapon specific stuff? I know I touched a bit on chaos, but nothing else.

FNP doesn't work against demon weapons as the weapon itself is attacking you. You wouldn't allow anyone else to make a FNP save against your demon weapon would you?

thefreddyfinger wrote:FNP doesn't work against demon weapons as the weapon itself is attacking you. You wouldn't allow anyone else to make a FNP save against your demon weapon would you?

No, it doesn't allow FnP because the rules say it doesn't allow FnP.