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If Ol' Rockfist throws his Thunder Hammer at say a Bloodthirster, does a wound, and then a rune priest tries Jaws of the WOlf on said Bloodthirster, does he test at Initiative 1? I know it is a ranged attack but it is a T. Hammer and it says wounds caused by T. Hammers lower the targets Initiative to 1. I dont play Wolves and I despise Marines, but unfortunately this tactic seems viable. Thoughts???

Not having my rule book on me at the moment, I dont have access to exact wording to back up my following opinion.

But If I recall correctly, a model wounded by a Thunder Hammer strikes at Int 1 in the following assault phase.

If it indeed says in the following assault phase, then it would have no affect on Jaws of the World Wolf as it is used in the shooting phase.

Yeah that was my first response also but BRB says pg 42 "...all models that suffer an unsaved wound from a T. Hammer and are not killed will be knocked reeling, reducing their Initiative value to a value of 1 until the end of the next players turn."

You appear to be correct in interpreting it this way.

With that being the exact wording then I to agree that its Int is reduced and what is used for purposes of the Jaw's power.

but is it a thunderhammer once thrown? The close combat thunder hammer has this rule. But the thown weapon, although a "hammer" has a completely different profile as a ranged weapon. And no ranged weapon has the abilities here posed.

So does Rockfist's ranged attack then count as having been made with a Thunderhammer?

Do the rules for suffering an unsaved wounds apply outside of the Assault Phase?

I guess that's what's left to look at.

::EDIT:: Ninja'd.

The Foehammer is "a thunder hammer that can be used as a ranged weapon with the following profile", so even when being thrown I think it is still a thunder hammer, and it is still potentially wounding the target so I think the thunder hammers I1 rule would come into effect.

I dont think it works this way. I think its a thunderhammer that is thrown with profile x. It doesnt benefit from the thunderhammer rules, and since a thunderhammer is an assault weapon i see no reason why it would make the target initiative 1.

But the Foehammer clearly says that it is a thunder hammer, and if you throw it and wound someone, then that person is taking a wound from a thunderhammer.

Drunkspleen wrote:But the Foehammer clearly says that it is a thunder hammer, and if you throw it and wound someone, then that person is taking a wound from a thunderhammer.

Which can be thrown with the stats of***.
Nowhere in that statline does it mention thunderhammer.

I suppose it's a question of whether "can be used as X" is implying that it is no longer what it normally is (a Thunder Hammer) when being used in that fashion. i.e. X is a Y that can be used as a Z. Is Z a Y? Is a wound caused by Z also caused by X, and if so is that wound caused by a Y as well?

This doesn't sound like an issue that will be too easily resolved by either side.

I think it counts as a thunderhammer and will cause the opponent to fight at Ini 1 in the following assault.

I think that stat tests are always taken from the base value regardless of modifiers so this modifier is moot for the test in question.

Interesting that the weapons name is Foehammer. If I recall correctly, Gandalf carried a sword from the horde of the three trolls, in the Hobbit. There were two blades of obvious magical nature, elf forged. One was Orcrist, translated as Goblin Cleaver, and the orcs and goblins called it Biter. Thorin Oakenshield claimed Orcrist, and it was laid on his breast when he was interred in the mountain.

Gandalf took up Glamdring, the Foehammer, which the orcs and goblins called beater. It's the sword he is carrying in the Lord of the Rings films.

Even though it says it is a Thunderhammer, the thunderhammer rules only apply in Close Combat, because it only has rules as a "special close combat weapon."

Since the ranged profile does not have that special rule, it does not reduce the target's initiative.

This is the same idea that a guy brought up a while back about using Pariahs. He was claiming that since the Gauss Blaster they carry is integral to a War Scythe it got the same save-ignoring properties as the war scythe.

Krak_kirby wrote:Interesting that the weapons name is Foehammer. If I recall correctly, Gandalf carried a sword from the horde of the three trolls, in the Hobbit. There were two blades of obvious magical nature, elf forged. One was Orcrist, translated as Goblin Cleaver, and the orcs and goblins called it Biter. Thorin Oakenshield claimed Orcrist, and it was laid on his breast when he was interred in the mountain.

Gandalf took up Glamdring, the Foehammer, which the orcs and goblins called beater. It's the sword he is carrying in the Lord of the Rings films.

Foehammer is like, the name of the ship, in the first halo game. Reading is for sissies bruh

It states it uses a specific profile - which does not include the "Thunderhammer" rule anywhere.

Additionally proifle tests use your unmodified stat, therefore even if your I is reduced it won't effect JotWW.

I have to say no, it is not.

In any case, Characteristic Tests are made off the unmodified statistic IIRC.

Gwar! wrote:I have to say no, it is not.

That's my take based on the different profile for the ranged attack.

In any case, Characteristic Tests are made off the unmodified statistic IIRC.

That's what I thought too, but when I looked in the book I didn't see any reference to using the unmodified characteristic in the section on characteristic tests.

Gwar! wrote:I have to say no, it is not.

In any case, Characteristic Tests are made off the unmodified statistic IIRC.

I can't find any such rule. It would make leadership modifiers pretty pointless would it not?

Drunkspleen wrote:

Gwar! wrote:I have to say no, it is not.

In any case, Characteristic Tests are made off the unmodified statistic IIRC.

I can't find any such rule. It would make leadership modifiers pretty pointless would it not?

Very true. I think I am getting Editions/Games mixed up in my head.

In Any case, it's not being used as a thunder hammer, so it won't cause the I1 effect. You wouldn't claim a Combi Melta is AP1 on the Bolter Half would you?

Krak_kirby wrote:Interesting that the weapons name is Foehammer. If I recall correctly, Gandalf carried a sword from the horde of the three trolls, in the Hobbit. There were two blades of obvious magical nature, elf forged. One was Orcrist, translated as Goblin Cleaver, and the orcs and goblins called it Biter. Thorin Oakenshield claimed Orcrist, and it was laid on his breast when he was interred in the mountain.

Gandalf took up Glamdring, the Foehammer, which the orcs and goblins called beater. It's the sword he is carrying in the Lord of the Rings films.

Space Puppies love those films! They all secretly want to be Legolas.

When used as a ranged weapon, Foehammer uses the ranges weapon profile given in the codex. Nowhere in that weapon profile does it state that you use the rules for a thunder hammer. As has been said, Foehammer is a short ranged rail gun when used as a ranged weapon. That is it, nothing more.

I guess the grey area comes down to the description of the weapon. S Wolf codex pg 51. " Foehammer: .....The foehammer is a thunder hammer that can be used as a ranged weapon with the following profile; Range 6" S10 AP1 Assault 1." So the question is when they describe it as a thunder hammer that can be thrown with the following profile are we to interprate that as it keeps the thunder hammer rules as well as the shooting profile or do you forget it is a t. hammer and it has the following profile. The codex does remind us it IS a t. hammer with the following profile. Dont know. I play Necrons and I remember the Warscythe guass blaster debate and I agree the guass blaster does not take away saves altogether. The reason I agree is because it was a melee weapon and a seperate weapon description for the shooting profile, a guass blaster. Combi weapons are fired as the main weapon but one turn per game fire as a seperate type of weapon. This codex does say it is a t. hammer with the following profile. I hate the wolves but I think it will be allowed.

Norbu the Destroyer wrote:I hate the wolves but I think it will be allowed.

And I love the Wolves (have played them exclusively for 10+ years) and I would never under any circumstances let someone try this, because it simply is not supported by the rules.

willydstyle wrote:Even though it says it is a Thunderhammer, the thunderhammer rules only apply in Close Combat, because it only has rules as a "special close combat weapon."

Since the ranged profile does not have that special rule, it does not reduce the target's initiative.

This is the same idea that a guy brought up a while back about using Pariahs. He was claiming that since the Gauss Blaster they carry is integral to a War Scythe it got the same save-ignoring properties as the war scythe.

Agree.

Gwar! wrote:

Norbu the Destroyer wrote:I hate the wolves but I think it will be allowed.

And I love the Wolves (have played them exclusively for 10+ years) and I would never under any circumstances let someone try this, because it simply is not supported by the rules.

I dont know, at first I said no to this whole shenanigans, but after carefully reading the rules involved I can see how this would work, and by all means should.

maybe its worth a second read and dissection.

It is used as a Thunder Hammer only in the Assault phase. You do not claim that a Gauss Blaster with Warcythe negates all saves do you?

My melta gunner now has a power weapon that rolls 2d6 for armor pen in the assault phase.

Eidolon wrote:My melta gunner now has a power weapon that rolls 2d6 for armor pen in the assault phase.

And it gets a +1 to the damage table too! Pretty sweet!