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I've been meaning to finish this army for a long time. Below is a list I came up with that will be able to use pretty much all of the imperial fists I have painted up. What are its glaring weaknesses? I know this is not a competitive list, but I have a feeling that its half way decent. Am I just deluding myself?

HQ:
Lysander (200) 200
Chaplain (100), Jump Pack (15) 115
Total: 315

Elites:
10 Terminators (400), 2 Cyclone (60), 2 Chain Fist (10) 470
Total: 470

Troops:
10 Marines (170), Flamer (0), Lascannon (10), Rhino (35) 215
10 Marines (170), Flamer (0), Lascannon (10), Rhino (35) 215
10 Marines (170), Melta Gun (5), Multimelta (0), Combi-Melta (10), Power Fist (25) 210
Drop Pod (35) 35
Total: 675

Fast Attack:
10 Assault Marine (190), Storm Shield (15), Power Fist (25) 230
Speeder (50), Melta (10) 60
Total: 290

General idea: Lysander joins the terminator squad so they can re-roll storm bolter shots, chaplain joins assault squad, bolster defense on one piece of ruin to stick the 2 combat squad lascannons in, Flamer and Sargent rides in rhino to try and hold objectives. Speeder because I had 60 points left over.

looks good, nice and mobile.(dosen't fit the fists, but who cares )

lascannons and flamers don't compliment each other. would reccomend missiles because they are free and you could spend the points somewhere else. prehaps upgrade the speeder.

The Melta squad would be a better choice for a rhino. move in close and melt tanks.

Speeder is a nice choice for tank hunting

Lone pods are best for dreadnoughts. For one your squad can't use the multi-melta one the first turn because you count as moving. Dreds can fire meltas when moving.

I'm having second thoughts on the lascannons as well. If I drop them, I can afford to give the speeder a flamer and give the assault squad 2 flamers.

I'm just worried that I would miss those 2 S9 shots for a chance to crack those high armored targets from range.

Drop Pod Dreadnought usually takes care of that issue.

Will wrote:I'm having second thoughts on the lascannons as well. If I drop them, I can afford to give the speeder a flamer and give the assault squad 2 flamers.

I'm just worried that I would miss those 2 S9 shots for a chance to crack those high armored targets from range.

Lascannons are expensive and best in groups.

your point is valid, but predators and devestators are the ones who should have lascannons. not tactical marines.

What armies will you be facing?

You have a set up that could go close range fire power against Horde's or large amounts of armor

Drop pod dreads will take care of a lot of issues, but that requires a significant investment in time and capital. I want to try it with out them for now. Another problem is that I fear a drop pod dread would be too slow. The army is already pretty slow, and with only 2 rhinos, its not that hard for anyone to knock them out, so that's why I went with the jump squad.

The armies that I go against runs across the spectrum. As such I want a list as tactically flexible as possible. I do have a few bikes laying around that should be pretty easy for me to put together, and that will still give me a fast hammer unit.

2 melta's in a bike squad would also do the trick.

Bike squad with two meltas and an attack bike with a multi melta are perhaps the ultimate tankhunters.

I run this squad in appoc for Stompa hunting.

Split the terminators into two squads of 5. If you're deep striking in with a bigger unit chances are of hitting terrain or going on the deep strike mishap table. And you definately do not want to foot slog. I would personally go with assault cannons as cyclone is a long range support.

If you put lascannons in a rhino you cannot fire and move. I would split them into combat squads and take razorbacks instead, or go multi melta as you need to travel to get into range anyway.

One drop pod? Needs support or else marines drop in, melta one target and then next turn get shot up and assaulted - bad times :(

You don't really need a storm shield on a sgt. It only has one wound and you can allocate wounds to other squad members. Flamers are nice too in assault squads . Though, really another assault squad is needed for support. Two last longer than one.

Here is some drop pod and tactical squad tactica on my blog:

http://imperiusdominatus.blogspot.com/2009/10/drop-pod-tactica.html

http://imperiusdominatus.blogspot.com/2009/10/space-marine-tactical-squad-tactica.html

Hope that helps

I appreciate the comments. Here are my thoughts mercer:

I don't think it is necessary to break the terminator squad into two five men squads. I can always combat squad them if I want to have two squads, and this way I can deploy with one five men squad that has two cyclone launchers for long range fire support, and deep strike with Lysander leading the other five men squad to get closer. This also gives me the option of foot slogging if I wish.

The 10 men lascannon tac squads are going to be combat squads if I need to, but with rhinos I also have the option of embarking all 10 marines. A razorback is 5 points more for a twin linked heavy bolter, which isn't going to be doing a whole lot in general, so I think I like the option of the increased troop carrying capacity.

My idea about the one drop pod is that if the situation exist where I can actually tag something with the alpha strike melta guns, then I will put the melt tac squad in the pod. But I can always chose to drop the pod empty and just walk the melta squad up from reserve. They also have the option of taking one of the rhinos from the other tac squad if the situation calls for it.

Your probably right about the shield on the assault sargent, but I've already painted up the guy and I really like his look. If I ever decide to take this army to a real tournament and I really feel the need to optimize, then I will rip off his shield. I think a better buy for that 15 points is a flamer for the squad and a melta bomb for him.

My main question at this point is is it worth it to take lascannons? Should I just take missile launchers with the tack squads instead? This saves me 20 points and I can add a flamer to the speeder and a flamer to the assault squad.

Regarding the assault squad is it worth it to try and find another 10 points for the second flamer? I feel that they really need to be able to get into combat and I don't want to kill too many models and leave them unable to assault. Is it better to get rid of the assault squad and the Chaplin altogether and take bikes? If I take bikes, I might as well have a captain to lead them, and get 5 bikers to have another scoring unit. If I do that, it will cost a minimum of 275, leaving enough points to give the captain a relic blade and give 2 melta guns to the squad. I really wish to give the bike Sargent a power fist, and I can get 20 points back from dropping the lascannons and taking missile launchers, but where to find that last five points?

So I played 5 games with the army this past weekend. In the first four games, the lascannons did absolutely nothing. When they did hit armor and scored a pen or glance, the cover saves stopped them from doing anything. Definitely not worth the extra points.

Lysander and the terminators were a lot tougher then I expected. With the new wound allocation I was able to put a few wounds on Lysander and save 2 or 3 terminators per game.

For the last game I gave both the assault squad and the speeder a flamer. I liked that very much as it gave the speeder another option when shooting, and allowed the assault squad to soften up the enemy a bit before charging in.

The combat shield on the assault sargent only came into play once in 5 games, and it failed to save him. As much as it pains me to do it, I'm going to have to shelve the model.

What do you guys suggest for the 15 points left over? Another flamer in the assault squad?

You could do another flamer and/or give the sergeant a plasme pistol

How did the games turn out? wins/loss/draw

For the 5 games, 3 wins, 1 draw, and 1 loss. I tabled the opponent in one of my wins.

I was rolling a little above average, but 20 re-rolled bolter shots and 4 frag missiles puts out a lot of wounds regardless.

I don't want to risk the sarg with a plasma overheat. Too expensive when equipped with a power fist and jump pack. I'm not too keen on the second flamer either. I don't want to cause too many wounds as to miss the assault.

Will wrote:I appreciate the comments. Here are my thoughts mercer:

I don't think it is necessary to break the terminator squad into two five men squads. I can always combat squad them if I want to have two squads, and this way I can deploy with one five men squad that has two cyclone launchers for long range fire support, and deep strike with Lysander leading the other five men squad to get closer. This also gives me the option of foot slogging if I wish.

The 10 men lascannon tac squads are going to be combat squads if I need to, but with rhinos I also have the option of embarking all 10 marines. A razorback is 5 points more for a twin linked heavy bolter, which isn't going to be doing a whole lot in general, so I think I like the option of the increased troop carrying capacity.

My idea about the one drop pod is that if the situation exist where I can actually tag something with the alpha strike melta guns, then I will put the melt tac squad in the pod. But I can always chose to drop the pod empty and just walk the melta squad up from reserve. They also have the option of taking one of the rhinos from the other tac squad if the situation calls for it.

Your probably right about the shield on the assault sargent, but I've already painted up the guy and I really like his look. If I ever decide to take this army to a real tournament and I really feel the need to optimize, then I will rip off his shield. I think a better buy for that 15 points is a flamer for the squad and a melta bomb for him.

My main question at this point is is it worth it to take lascannons? Should I just take missile launchers with the tack squads instead? This saves me 20 points and I can add a flamer to the speeder and a flamer to the assault squad.

Regarding the assault squad is it worth it to try and find another 10 points for the second flamer? I feel that they really need to be able to get into combat and I don't want to kill too many models and leave them unable to assault. Is it better to get rid of the assault squad and the Chaplin altogether and take bikes? If I take bikes, I might as well have a captain to lead them, and get 5 bikers to have another scoring unit. If I do that, it will cost a minimum of 275, leaving enough points to give the captain a relic blade and give 2 melta guns to the squad. I really wish to give the bike Sargent a power fist, and I can get 20 points back from dropping the lascannons and taking missile launchers, but where to find that last five points?

Sorry for the late reply buddie.

Combat squading is fine, but you still do not want to foot slog terminators. They will get picked off by ap2 weapons easily. Best to deep strike them and put homing/locator beacons on the sgt's. Reason I said about spliting them was because I was worried about a large unit of 10 terminators deep strking, something is bound to go wrong. Though I over looked combat squads on that one.

Trust me, heavy bolter does. I use them all the time in my Fists army. While a rhino you can shoot out the top, but you're taking a flamer which is short range and can only rapid fire which is 12" anyway. Heavy bolter can shoot 36" is useful for taking out units on foot and light transports, en masse they do well for me. I would definately try proxying them, they give vital fire support to the combat squad inside.

I would give them a rhino. You don't want your melta marines foot slogging, and you really want to use 245 points of a unit to alpha strike to wreck one enemy unit and next turn that unit will get pounded. You alpha strike with a land speeder, costs little and not a big loss.

Just ignore the storm shield, though I agree it looks cool 8)

I've always found missile launchers to be better. Still good at taking out tanks and you've got frag rocket for infantry too.

I like bikers better than assault squads. Bikers move just as quickly but are t5, can turbo boost and get a 3+ cover save and fire if they move 12" as they have relentless. Bikes are better. Bikes really need meltas and a power fist so they can quickly wreck armour etc.

Hope that helps!