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 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Makumba wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
What's volkite?

AP5 guns (with varying strengths and rates of fire) that have Deflagrate. Deflagrate says: When a unit suffers an unsaved wound from a weapon with this rule, immediately resolve another wound against the unit using the weapon's profile. These newly-generated wounds cannot generate further wounds.

It really isn't all that bad.

by varying shots you mean how many 1-2?

The different Volkite weapons have different profiles (each weapon itself does not have any variables). Calivers, for example, are Heavy 2 while Culverins are Heavy 4.

Personally, I think the most frightening Support Squad loadout is letting them all keep the basic flamer and putting them in a drop pod (using the appropriate Rite of War, of course). 10 flamers will kill just about anything through sheer volume of fire (pun intended). I do use a Support Squad with Volkite Calivers, and they're surprisingly effective against light vehicles.

For Maximum Fun go Death Guard so all the Flamers have Shred (and Gets Hot), or Salamanders so all the flamers have +1S.

I still can't understand why people want to separate FW and GW. It even says Games Workshop on the resin FW sprues.

 Vash108 wrote:
I still can't understand why people want to separate FW and GW. It even says Games Workshop on the resin FW sprues.

Because accepting FW means accepting that the game they know has changed. And change is scary for some people, so it's easier to shut it out and not adapt to new things.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:
I still can't understand why people want to separate FW and GW. It even says Games Workshop on the resin FW sprues.

Because accepting FW means accepting that the game they know has changed. And change is scary for some people, so it's easier to shut it out and not adapt to new things.

That makes me want to headdesk.

Just curious, how many folks that are pro-forgeworld in this thread have imperial armies or only imperial armies?

Not imperial. But a full Horus Heresy army.

 Mecha_buddha wrote:
Just curious, how many folks that are pro-forgeworld in this thread have imperial armies or only imperial armies?

Currently I only really have Sisters and half a Wolf army, but locally we have a lot of pro-FW players so I get to see a lot of neat stuff (guy brought a Tauntless to an Apoc game that also had a couple Eldar Titans in it, along with a couple of Warhounds and a bucket load of Knights, a couple guys play Tau and have FW models for that, store owner has FW Necron and Nid stuff...) so I'm pro-FW despite really only getting a transport for my Sisters out of the deal (FW doesn't really have anything I want for my Wolves army honestly) because of all the cool stuff I've seen for lots of people.

 Mecha_buddha wrote:
Just curious, how many folks that are pro-forgeworld in this thread have imperial armies or only imperial armies?

I have Chaos.

 Mecha_buddha wrote:
Just curious, how many folks that are pro-forgeworld in this thread have imperial armies or only imperial armies?

I have Imperial armies. That said, I've also got a Tau army (originally built specifically to incorporate a FW model actually), an Eldar army, and tons of Chaos along with a Tyranid army.

Actually I think I also technically have an Ork army under my sink...

 Vaktathi wrote:
Actually I think I also technically have an Ork army under my sink...

Beats the Black Ork army I had to deal with in the shower at Fort Polk when I was there last for training (also floor tiles with warning signs about if you break or crack them to call a certain hazmat number immediately because they contained asbestos. Talk about needing to tread softly I guess).

I'm glad that there's so many pro-Forgeworld posters on this thread who believe that using FW models should not require any special agreement. I have to ask though, where were you all in the Lord of War threads? If 30k is okay, my titan is ok.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
I'm glad that there's so many pro-Forgeworld posters on this thread who believe that using FW models should not require any special agreement. I have to ask though, where were you all in the Lord of War threads? If 30k is okay, my titan is ok.

Probably in school, though I did participate in an early one of those when Escalation came out.

And if your Titan is okay, taking Horus is okay.

I remember the early years of FW when many of their rules were painfully OP and broken. Ever since then FW has a reputation for being broken.
Nowadays they're alright and I wouldn't fault anyone for bringing FW, heck, in the case of Chaos, it's preferable to GW's main line.

 MWHistorian wrote:
I remember the early years of FW when many of their rules were painfully OP and broken. Ever since then FW has a reputation for being broken.
Nowadays they're alright and I wouldn't fault anyone for bringing FW, heck, in the case of Chaos, it's preferable to GW's main line.

Great, so you're happy for me to bring my Forge World Titan without any special agreement? I remember you seemed pretty opposed to Lords of War in the past.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I remember the early years of FW when many of their rules were painfully OP and broken. Ever since then FW has a reputation for being broken.
Nowadays they're alright and I wouldn't fault anyone for bringing FW, heck, in the case of Chaos, it's preferable to GW's main line.

Great, so you're happy for me to bring my Forge World Titan without any special agreement? I remember you seemed pretty opposed to Lords of War in the past.

I certainly would let you, so long as I can bring mine!

Hm.

Yeah, I have Imperial armies - I have Sisters and Elysians. Buut... most of the Forge World stuff I use (my Elysians are all GW or Shadowforge models!) is actually Necron.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I remember the early years of FW when many of their rules were painfully OP and broken. Ever since then FW has a reputation for being broken.
Nowadays they're alright and I wouldn't fault anyone for bringing FW, heck, in the case of Chaos, it's preferable to GW's main line.

Great, so you're happy for me to bring my Forge World Titan without any special agreement? I remember you seemed pretty opposed to Lords of War in the past.

As long you manage to fit it into the list somehow, be my guest.

Not sure if you'll appreciate your warhound going down instantly to the abusive amounts of melta I am running though

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:
I still can't understand why people want to separate FW and GW. It even says Games Workshop on the resin FW sprues.

Because accepting FW means accepting that the game they know has changed. And change is scary for some people, so it's easier to shut it out and not adapt to new things.

I don't know how the game is played in the US, but here people play at stores or at tournaments , who are sponsored by stores. No shop is going to support a brand of models it doesn't sell and which lowers the chance that someone will buy stuff from the store. It is economy not being scared.
Players don't like it because there is little ways to check yourself, if the person using FW rules is actualy using them correctly, because there are so many reprints of their books , experimental rules etc and having them in pdf form makes it even easier to manipulate. FW also makes such gems like the thudd gun, 6th turbo laser armed anything and the game is already imbalanced enough without adding those units.

Wanna play anything else than core 40K (BRB, codex, CAD(+allied x1)) ? just ask.

If you want to play dual CAD, unbound, dataslates, FW or some other unknown, that's fine, but all those are non-standard for the time being.

It changes the game you play, and while some of your opponents may be fine with it, you're still expected to ask them beforehand.


And if you want to bring any non-standard, you should probably prepare yourself to accept any non-standard from your opponent as well (i.e. FW vs unbound).

Nothing against pretty models by themself, more a question of money.

If I really wanted to be sure about FW units and rules I'd have to invest in books I'll use even more seldom than the 40K armies I already have. A standard Codex can most likely be found in your closest shop selling GW, or one of your regular opponents has it so you can check it when you meet.

And it's IMO unfair that some armies (already well off in their Codex) get a lot of nice-looking useful stuff while some get shafted even in their own Codex, lacking AA and flyers. GW should iron out the basic armies before adding even more stuff.

morgoth wrote:
Wanna play anything else than core 40K (BRB, codex, CAD(+allied x1)) ? just ask.

If you want to play dual CAD, unbound, dataslates, FW or some other unknown, that's fine, but all those are non-standard for the time being.

It changes the game you play, and while some of your opponents may be fine with it, you're still expected to ask them beforehand.

non standard? HOW? they are all allowed as part of my CAD etc in the BRB. none are expansions and ALL are part of the CORE 40k.

i mean your list couldnt get more complicated if you wanted it to.. its like a bad math sum as to how you think core 40k is. (ill bold it). Core 40k is what the rulebook tells you you can take. i mean unless you want to say SOB arent allowed, because their book is digital only (and on the same level as Black legion or crimson slaughter).

as to asking permission that went out a long time ago really. i need to ask to bring a FW model just like you need to ask to bring Tactial marines.
as to rules availability and your fear that someone might cheat you. if you cant trust your opponent to bring the right rules then you prolly dont want to play them do you?

Mecha_buddha wrote:Just curious, how many folks that are pro-forgeworld in this thread have imperial armies or only imperial armies?

Chaos Space Marines, Tau, Eldar and Tyranids. I'm not really interested in any of the FW stuff for Tau or Eldar (except maybe that lovely Avatar), because as much as I love the idea of the Barracuda and the Tigershark, I don't like how they look. FW units (I say units rather than models because plenty of my Codex: Chaos Space Marines Chaos Space Marines are in Pre-Heresy armour) I have are the Fire Raptor and a number of Contemptor and Decimator weapons to use on the Puppetswar Battlewalker (proxying as either a Contemptor or Decimator). My friend has Bray'arth Ashmantle in his Salamander army, which was my suggestion (he wanted a cool Dreadnought, and I showed him Bray'arth and asked him if he'd like me to convert something, but he, unlike me, quite likes the model for Ashmantle).

tyrannosaurus wrote:I'm glad that there's so many pro-Forgeworld posters on this thread who believe that using FW models should not require any special agreement. I have to ask though, where were you all in the Lord of War threads? If 30k is okay, my titan is ok.

First of all, that is hyperbole. Titans change the game far more than any other FW model. That said, I would be perfectly happy if you did, even just to look at the Titan if for no other reason.

Makumba wrote:I don't know how the game is played in the US, but here people play at stores or at tournaments , who are sponsored by stores. No shop is going to support a brand of models it doesn't sell and which lowers the chance that someone will buy stuff from the store. It is economy not being scared.

Except we're talking about the players.

Makumba wrote:Players don't like it because there is little ways to check yourself, if the person using FW rules is actualy using them correctly, because there are so many reprints of their books , experimental rules etc and having them in pdf form makes it even easier to manipulate. FW also makes such gems like the thudd gun, 6th turbo laser armed anything and the game is already imbalanced enough without adding those units.

The Thudd Gun was the fault of Games Workshop doing things that had an unforeseen effect on existing FW units, and this has been covered already in this thread (changing Artillery rules, so the Thudd became better automatically). Also, we're not in 6th edition, and "turbolaser armed anything" was never overpowered. GW's forceful addition of Strength D, ripped straight from Apocalypse, was the problem, not FW. The Transcendent C'tan is the perfect example of this, and it is not a FW unit.

EDIT:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
if you cant trust your opponent to bring the right rules then you prolly dont want to play them do you?

That is an extremely good point, especially given the implication that this hypothetical opponent is bringing an earlier but superior version on purpose. I don't know half of the FAQs and Erratas GW put out, and would expect my opponent to adhere to them just like I play my Heldrake weapons as hull-mounted and cost my Chaos Dreadnoughts at 100pts instead of 105.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

morgoth wrote:
Wanna play anything else than core 40K (BRB, codex, CAD(+allied x1)) ? just ask.

If you want to play dual CAD, unbound, dataslates, FW or some other unknown, that's fine, but all those are non-standard for the time being.

It changes the game you play, and while some of your opponents may be fine with it, you're still expected to ask them beforehand.

non standard? HOW? they are all allowed as part of my CAD etc in the BRB. none are expansions and ALL are part of the CORE 40k.

i mean your list couldnt get more complicated if you wanted it to.. its like a bad math sum as to how you think core 40k is. (ill bold it). Core 40k is what the rulebook tells you you can take. i mean unless you want to say SOB arent allowed, because their book is digital only (and on the same level as Black legion or crimson slaughter).

as to asking permission that went out a long time ago really. i need to ask to bring a FW model just like you need to ask to bring Tactial marines.
as to rules availability and your fear that someone might cheat you. if you cant trust your opponent to bring the right rules then you prolly dont want to play them do you?

It's your problem if you don't want to give any attention to people's expectations.
I don't expect anyone to bring anything not tournament legal without telling me first.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I remember the early years of FW when many of their rules were painfully OP and broken. Ever since then FW has a reputation for being broken.
Nowadays they're alright and I wouldn't fault anyone for bringing FW, heck, in the case of Chaos, it's preferable to GW's main line.

Great, so you're happy for me to bring my Forge World Titan without any special agreement? I remember you seemed pretty opposed to Lords of War in the past.

FW =/= LoW

 Ashiraya wrote:

 tyrannosaurus wrote:


Great, so you're happy for me to bring my Forge World Titan without any special agreement? I remember you seemed pretty opposed to Lords of War in the past.

FW =/= LoW

I can't really see how one could accept FW and not LoW on the same basis.

morgoth wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

morgoth wrote:
Wanna play anything else than core 40K (BRB, codex, CAD(+allied x1)) ? just ask.

If you want to play dual CAD, unbound, dataslates, FW or some other unknown, that's fine, but all those are non-standard for the time being.

It changes the game you play, and while some of your opponents may be fine with it, you're still expected to ask them beforehand.

non standard? HOW? they are all allowed as part of my CAD etc in the BRB. none are expansions and ALL are part of the CORE 40k.

i mean your list couldnt get more complicated if you wanted it to.. its like a bad math sum as to how you think core 40k is. (ill bold it). Core 40k is what the rulebook tells you you can take. i mean unless you want to say SOB arent allowed, because their book is digital only (and on the same level as Black legion or crimson slaughter).

as to asking permission that went out a long time ago really. i need to ask to bring a FW model just like you need to ask to bring Tactial marines.
as to rules availability and your fear that someone might cheat you. if you cant trust your opponent to bring the right rules then you prolly dont want to play them do you?

It's your problem if you don't want to give any attention to people's expectations.
I don't expect anyone to bring anything not tournament legal without telling me first.

whos expectations? yours? the rest of the gaming world? pretty open there man, my expectation is to play a game as per BRB.

and what exactly is Tournament legal? iv never seen a world around accepted list that every TO uses. in fact EVERY tourney iv been to has had different lists of what you could and couldnt bring.

Personally I'm pro FW, within reason. Some units are just too powerful. No manta, stormsword etc.

That being said, I had a game and my opponent brought a FW Tau flyer, and it did really well. Now if I didn't know the guy really well, I might have been suspicious because a surprising number of people try and cheat in this game. With no prior knowledge of the unit its very unsettling.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

whos expectations? yours? the rest of the gaming world? pretty open there man, my expectation is to play a game as per BRB.

and what exactly is Tournament legal? iv never seen a world around accepted list that every TO uses. in fact EVERY tourney iv been to has had different lists of what you could and couldnt bring.

Apparently, lots of people agree on the same definition of "core 40K", even though they do not name it like that.

The bigger tournaments have been sticking to CAD+allied for a while now, I think it's fair to consider that "standard".

morgoth wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 tyrannosaurus wrote:


Great, so you're happy for me to bring my Forge World Titan without any special agreement? I remember you seemed pretty opposed to Lords of War in the past.

FW =/= LoW

I can't really see how one could accept FW and not LoW on the same basis.

Some people don't like LoW.

morgoth wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

whos expectations? yours? the rest of the gaming world? pretty open there man, my expectation is to play a game as per BRB.

and what exactly is Tournament legal? iv never seen a world around accepted list that every TO uses. in fact EVERY tourney iv been to has had different lists of what you could and couldnt bring.

Apparently, lots of people agree on the same definition of "core 40K", even though they do not name it like that.

The bigger tournaments have been sticking to CAD+allied for a while now, I think it's fair to consider that "standard".

Bigger tourneys in 7th? we have had which ones again?
and yes Core 40k is listed in the BRB as all GW publications. thats the new 7th ed CORE, its changed, we arent in 5th ed or even 6th ed anymore. its an evolving game that for some reason people want to live in the past.

as i understand it these new codexes are written in such a way as to use the multi CAD notion as well.
does these new 7th tourneys allowed for the changed CAD thats printed in the codex's.
there simply hasnt been enough time in the game of 7th ed yet to say THIS IS HOW IT IS EVERYWHERE.