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2014/11/04 13:27:01
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Melissia wrote: When it could instead be both, Symphonic Power Metal (see: Rhapsody of Fire).
Symphonic electro raggadeath progressive black melodic indus pagan doomgrind metalcore! With a side of jazz.
[edit]Oh, sorry, I forgot the most important one. Brutal symphonic electro raggadeath progressive black melodic indus pagan doomgrind metalcore![/edit]
Anyone played Brütal Legend here? They had weirdly chosen “genre” of the different metal songs you can unlock .
And they will therefore refute your refutations. And bang, the thread is now about GamerGate, congrats!
Also what is this thing about atheism you were talking about?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/04 14:40:09
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/11/04 14:37:34
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Ah, I see, just last-word-isms then. Drop it, Ash.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/04 14:38:08
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/11/04 14:59:15
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Melissia wrote: Ah, I see, just last-word-isms then. Drop it, Ash.
Basically. I was ending the discussion on GG.
Lets face it GG is a huge issue. And I am quite tired of discussing it. Mostly because I got harassed directly because of what I thought on it.
So I would like to drop it.
lso what is this thing about atheism you were talking about?
Its a whole seperate issue it is basically a feminist that proclaimed at an atheist occassion that she was harassed, at a bar. And then had to spend 5 minutes on a elevator with another guy. She didn't tell security about the problem, she literally went and started blogging about it.
And created atheism plus its literally the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
A horrible idea developed to combine several movements: atheism, feminism, L.G.B.T., social justice, and skepticism. The idea is poor because:
1) These individual movements have differing frames of reference and goals 2) It seeks to divide established groups into a minority of minorities
-Not all atheists are skeptics, not all skeptics are feminist, not all feminist and atheist, etc. 3) It alienates supporters of each movement, which likely outnumbers the A+ members in all cases.
-Example: feminism moving to A+ would alienate religious feminist
Atheism only address one question, is belief in a deity or deities supported by evidence, which is why it’s powerful. Atheism does not provide a world view about how to live nor should it. There are existing terms for these other movements and the combination of all social justice issues. It’s called “social equality” and” humanism”. Atheism plus is a divisive movement started by short sighted-power seeking Prima Donnas looking to hijack and existing movement (atheism) for personal glory and intellectual bigotry.
It was very dogmatic and was basically a push by outside feminists to try and make Atheism more welcoming.
But it failed tremendously because the Atheists banded together against it. And the feminist movement barely had a three hundred people in it.
It got to the point were it was so ridiculous and following the tumblr feminist ideas that it was just dumb... It felt like occupy wall street all over again.
And back onto the threads point in a similar vein
So with that in mind.
Women in games need more representation......
Now lets switch over from that to.
How is the games industry including women going? (do not bring up Zoey Quinn) Would an introduction of more women in the industry help change this?
Should the old stereotype of programmers being woman, make a come back?
What should education do to make programming more appealing? Or anything in education become more appealing for games media?
Should more women be represented in the games media? How should we go about this?
How about the representation of female protagonists? Are they more memorable then men?
Should writing be improved in games overall?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/04 15:05:51
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/11/04 15:07:05
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Asherian Command wrote: Basically. I was ending the discussion on GG. [continues to have discussions on it immediately after saying this]
No.
Stop.
We don't need this thread closed, too.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/04 15:09:44
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/11/04 15:10:58
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Psienesis wrote: .. I can't start a game of Mass Effect with customization without spending 45 minutes designing my FemShep character.
fixed this to be almost universally true
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/11/04 15:21:25
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
A horrible idea developed to combine several movements: atheism, feminism, L.G.B.T., social justice, and skepticism.
I could definitely support that.
Asherian Command wrote: It was very dogmatic and was basically a push by outside feminists to try and make Atheism more welcoming.
Outside feminists? I can hardly imagine a non-atheist pretending to be an atheist. That would mean, if only by lips rather than by heart, forsaking their precious gods. Cannot do that.
Asherian Command wrote: How is the games industry including women going? (do not bring up Zoey Quinn) Would an introduction of more women in the industry help change this?
Should the old stereotype of programmers being woman, make a come back?
The old stereotype of programmers being women? Do you mean when they used secretaries to type those programs on punched cards, or do you mean back when lady Ada Lovelace was basically discovering coding? Or something else entirely that I have not heard of?
Anyhow, that video was interesting.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/11/04 15:26:42
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Thank you I have some questions that are already there that you have gladly ignored.
The old stereotype of programmers being women? Do you mean when they used secretaries to type those programs on punched cards, or do you mean back when lady Ada Lovelace was basically discovering coding? Or something else entirely that I have not heard of? Anyhow, that video was interesting.
A long while ago programming was a field in which women could engage in. It wasn't until rise of mainstream video games that woman were kind of pushed out of it. As many of the earliest programmers were all women. Infact women are usually the best programmers we have quite a few women in the industry that are more revolutionary than their male peers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/04 15:28:21
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/11/04 15:48:33
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Asherian Command wrote: It wasn't until rise of mainstream video games that woman were kind of pushed out of it.
Really? When do you consider video game became mainstream? Because when I look at the history if stuff like Arpanet, Unix, C, C++, Gnu, IBM, Microsoft, Apple, and so on, I see mostly men. All of those predates or are contemporary to the release of the first Mario Bros game.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/11/04 15:57:07
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Asherian Command wrote: It wasn't until rise of mainstream video games that woman were kind of pushed out of it.
Really? When do you consider video game became mainstream? Because when I look at the history if stuff like Arpanet, Unix, C, C++, Gnu, IBM, Microsoft, Apple, and so on, I see mostly men. All of those predates or are contemporary to the release of the first Mario Bros game.
During WW2 ever since most of the men were away. Women took up the roles and the first programmers were mainly women. As most computers at the time were fething huge, they need a very big operational staff.
That whole stereotype of men being the first programmers is completely false. Binary was the first actual computer language, and is what all the programming codes actually look at the very basic level. They are just different ways of communicating binary. It make look different but it is still using the same base code that was set up in WW2.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/11/04 16:11:58
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
That is an excellent video. ABout halfway through watching it myself.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/11/04 17:43:26
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
it seems to have happened quite earlier than that, or we do have a very, very different view of what mainstream means. The switch happened before Pong!
(Also pretty damn sure the processors in 1945 has a very different set of instructions that they do now, so neither the same source code nor the same binary code.)
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/11/04 17:56:23
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
it seems to have happened quite earlier than that, or we do have a very, very different view of what mainstream means. The switch happened before Pong! (Also pretty damn sure the processors in 1945 has a very different set of instructions that they do now, so neither the same source code nor the same binary code.)
Thats what I meant XD
Somewhere near the thirty minute mark TB starts talking about sexism and women in games as characters.
He's view is that sexy women are postive. Slut shaming is stupid, and women like bayonetta are in control and have agency.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/04 18:09:14
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/11/04 20:35:14
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Asherian Command wrote: He's view is that sexy women are postive. Slut shaming is stupid, and women like bayonetta are in control and have agency.
And my view, that you refuse to even acknowledge, is that it is actually way more complex than a simple dichotomy of “sexy women = good, non-sexy women = bad” or the other way around “sexy women = bad, non-sexy women = good”. Why talk with you when you refuse to even read and understand my arguments?
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/11/04 20:39:33
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Asherian Command wrote: He's view is that sexy women are postive. Slut shaming is stupid, and women like bayonetta are in control and have agency.
And my view, that you refuse to even acknowledge, is that it is actually way more complex than a simple dichotomy of “sexy women = good, non-sexy women = bad” or the other way around “sexy women = bad, non-sexy women = good”. Why talk with you when you refuse to even read and understand my arguments?
No I do. I acknowledge it. I am just arguing against it.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/11/04 20:40:35
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Because we have 93 pages of discussion that goes against your assertion that it is a simple topic.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/04 20:40:57
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/11/04 20:48:25
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Then stop arguing with Hybrid Son of Oxayotl, whom never disagreed with this.
Your posts have not shown much rational thought behind them otherwise in this regard.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/11/04 21:13:44
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
.
I just do not know what to type to not be misinterpreted. And I am pretty sure it is not a question of English as a second language here.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/11/04 22:08:51
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
I hate cracked. It is literally the most BS I have ever seen.
I got more of a kick from kotaku calling Bayonnetta sex gak toy.
(She's not, if you have played the game you would know she is in control of her sexuality and treats men as objects, she is showing off for herself. she may seem like it in the cinematics, but judging a game based solely on its cinematics. I just can't comprehend.) *cough* Antia * cough*
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/11/04 22:19:54
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Asherian Command wrote:she is showing off for herself
Without wanting to remove every single instance of a sexualised character design ... this justification is about as sensible as "I'm wearing this chainmail bikini because I don't want to sacrifice agility"
2014/11/04 22:34:49
Subject: Re:What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Asherian Command wrote:she is showing off for herself
Without wanting to remove every single instance of a sexualised character design ... this justification is about as sensible as "I'm wearing this chainmail bikini because I don't want to sacrifice agility"
She kills god with a gun.
and she kills angels and basically is the most powerfulest women in gaming. Period.
Sorry samus, but can you kill gods? nope. The world is over the top, and the main character is over the top.
If you don't like a sex postitive woman who was designed by a woman. (Yep, the main character designer is infact, A WOMAN) Then do not tell me it is a bad thing to have a sex positive female protagonist who can basically kick anyones ass.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/04 22:43:53
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/11/04 22:45:38
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
VorpalBunny74 wrote: I'm curious, would a woman cosplaying as Bayonnetta be sexist, or empowering?
I mean why do girls cosplay as the character of kill la kill who is basically wearing nothing? Its empowerment. If they are working hard to look that good, they are doing it to feel empowered.
games are all about empowerment or living in a world or a story or immersion. I am not playing bayonneta because she's sexy. I play the game because it has solid mechanics and is absolutely beautiful. It has more art in than I could possibly count.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/11/04 22:46:56
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
I am glad Ash is carrying on his glorious crusade to:
- misrepresent my opinion
- still misrepresent my opinion even after I made it clear once again in reaction to his first post
- walk away like nothing happened
“Of course, most of us don't need special tactics to get laid. It turns out "not being an donkey-cave" and "meeting other people" both work pretty well.”
This makes me very sad. Well, no, I was already very sad, but it is not helping.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
.
.
