Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

+---+ CURRENT LIST UPDATED +---+

2000/2000pts

** HQ **
Brother-Chaplain Gaius 115pts (leads Assault Squad)
-Jumpack


** Troops **
(10)Tactical Squad Alpha 235pts
-Sergeant w/Powerfist
-Multi-melta, meltagun
-Rhino

(10)Tactical Squad Beta 250pts
-Sergeant w/Powerfist
-Lascannon, Plasma gun
-Rhino

(10)Tactical Squad Gamma 250pts
-Sergeant w/Powerfist
-Lascannon, Plasma gun
-Rhino


** Fast Attack **
(10)Assault Squad Omega w/Chaplain 255pts
-Sergeant w/Powerfist
-x2 Plasma pistol


** Elites **
(10)Sternguard Veterans 300pts
-x3 Combi-melta
-Rhino

Ironclad Dreadnought 180pts
-Heavy flamer
-Seismic hammer
-Meltagun
-Drop pod


** Heavy Support **
Predator 165pts
-Twin-linked Lascannon
-Side sponson Lascannons

Predator 165pts
-Twin-linked Lascannon
-Side sponson Lascannons

Predator 85pts
-Autocannon
-Side sponson Heavy bolters

i've entered a local tourney and was hoping to optimize my list. all C&C would be much appreciated thanks

Here's my comments:

Captain - fine, htough is probably wasted in eth sternguar they want to be shooting he wants to be assaulting. Maybe switch the rhino out for a DP to get them into the heart of the action. Then make them 10 man so you can combat squad.

Chaplain - fine digital weapons are Meh though.

Tac squads: Seem a bit of a mess. HK missiles are a waste of time and points. Specialise each squad to deal with something. Flamer and missiel launcher is good anti-horde with some tactical flexibility. PLasma Cannon works well with Plasma gun for anti-TEG/MEQ fire. Multi-melta and melta works well for armour hunting. Lascannon is meh particularly in this list.

Assault squads are OK assault troops that become passable with the Chaplain in toe. But one squad offers no duel threat mean it can be concentrated and taken out. once reduced to 5 marines it is no longer a threat to anything other than Tau...

Sternguard see above like the assault squad though you are better off taking 2 or none. 1 squad of DP sterngaurd would get annihilated, 2 squads causes a real problem.

Predator annihilators are massively over costed. 60 points for 1 lascannon shot?!??! No thanks. Still with eth autocannon and just take las-sponsons that is the best predator by far. I wouldn;t bother with eth Dakka pred in this list either maybe upgrade it to a TFC or Vindicator with the points saved from not upgrading the other 2 predators turrets...

You'll need more melta in your list, as there isn't enough anti-armour. Lascannons are more anti-transports and should be employed as such. I think you could benefit from running two tac squads MM/melta gun, and one ML/flamer. Power fists on your sergeants are good.

I might drop the captain and add Pedro Kantor in this list to make those sternguard scoring. (That's up to you, bur most will tell you to run more sternguard if you go with Kantor)

I occasionally use 10 strong assault squads and they're decent enough with a chaplain. Keep them covered though, and then use them as a contester/countercharging unit.

I agree with flingitnow, the Predator annhilator is overpriced. Either go dakka pred for anti-horde or keep those lascannon side sponsons for anti-transport. Although if you want rolling fear of death then get yourself a line breaker squadron of three Vindi's. (But beware of the low range!)

If you drop the TL LC's on the predators and LC's on the tac squads, the HK missiles on the rhinos and digital weaps on the chaplain, you may be able to squeeze in couple of HF/MM land speeders, to give you a bit more in-game flexibility.

Hope it helps!

ok thx guys I took alot from your comments. and as always i appreciate them! will re work my list

this is my new reworked list, i'm planning on changing the heavy weapons on one maybe 2 of my tacs. but i did add drop pod ironclad with melta/chainfist for anti tank and my sternguard have cmbi meltas with drop pod. so they can pod together and pop some av13+

so do i really need more dedicated anti armor? im leaning towards no because my new additions plus all my lascannons should be able to handle anything short of 3 landraiders/bane blades maybe im mistaken

2000/2000pts

** HQ **

Brother-Chaplain Gaius 115pts (leads Assault Squad)
-Jumpack


** Troops **

(10)Tactical Squad Alpha 250pts
-Sergeant w/Powerfist
-Lascannon, Plasma gun
-Rhino

(10)Tactical Squad Beta 250pts
-Sergeant w/Powerfist
-Lascannon, Plasma gun
-Rhino

(10)Tactical Squad Gamma 250pts
-Sergeant w/Powerfist
-Lascannon, Plasma gun
-Rhino


** Fast Attack **

(10)Assault Squad Omega w/Chaplain 235pts
-Sergeant w/Powerfist
-x2 Flamer


** Elites **

(10)Sternguard Veterans 305pts
-x4 Combi-melta
-Drop pod

Ironclad Dreadnought 180pts
-Heavy flamer
-Chainfist
-Meltagun
-Drop pod


** Heavy Support **

Predator 165pts
-Twin-linked Lascannon
-Side sponson Lascannons

Predator 165pts
-Twin-linked Lascannon
-Side sponson Lascannons

Predator 85pts
-Autocannon
-Side sponson Heavy bolters

With two Predator Annihilators for anti-transport, I'd suggest switching out the Lascannons on your Tacticals. I'd suggest something like this:

Tactical x 10 Plasma Cannon, Plasmagun, Plasma Pistol, Melta Bombs, Rhino + EA (255)

Tactical x 10 Plasma Cannon, Meltagun, Powerfist, Rhino + EA (255)

Tactical x 10 Plasma Cannon, Meltagun, Powerfist, Rhino + EA (255)

This adds a couple meltaguns, and Plasma Cannons for MEQ/TEQ hunting, plus the simple fact that you need some blast templates in there somewhere.

I like that idea General I'll be adding a plasma cannon and some melta

I implemented your suggestion tonight in a 2000pt game using plasma cannon/plas gun and althought i won i found the load out a bit redundant, the plas cannons achieved nothing the plasma guns couldnt have. im actually sticking with the las cannons

and i faced a blood angel army
drop pod ironclad and stern are great i also drop pod the assault squad, not in a pod but using their jump pack rule. do you guys usually do this or do you run them on foot moving 12"

Do you combat squad your tacticals? Reason I ask is because you cannot move and shoot heavy weaps out the rhino. So you have range with the lascannon and medium range with the plasma but not using it to full affectiveness.

I would add another assault squad, drop that lone ironclad dreadnought as it doesn't achieve much and is a easy target. With dual assault squads you now have dual threat, so one unit won't get gun raped while jumping across the board. Btw, I wouldn't deep strike assault squads as they get shot to gak - keep them hidden behind a wall of rhinos so block LOS or get cover saves.

I would be inclinded to take 2 units of sternguard, again dual threat. I would drop the dakka predator as you've got loads of lascannons, which do for monstrous creatures and vehicles but the dakka pred is like a sore thumb in this list.

Brother-Chaplain Gaius wrote:** HQ **
Brother-Chaplain Gaius 115pts (leads Assault Squad)

Assault Chaplains rock, Powerfist would be nice tho. Gives you the option using the Crozius or the Powerfist depending on your target

** Troops **

(10)Tactical Squad Alpha 250pts
-Sergeant w/Powerfist
-Lascannon, Plasma gun
-Rhino

(10)Tactical Squad Beta 250pts
-Sergeant w/Powerfist
-Lascannon, Plasma gun
-Rhino

(10)Tactical Squad Gamma 250pts
-Sergeant w/Powerfist
-Lascannon, Plasma gun
-Rhino

Solid choices

** Fast Attack **

(10)Assault Squad Omega w/Chaplain 235pts
-Sergeant w/Powerfist
-x2 Flamer

More solid choices

** Elites **

(10)Sternguard Veterans 305pts
-x4 Combi-melta
-Drop pod

Ironclad Dreadnought 180pts
-Heavy flamer
-Chainfist
-Meltagun
-Drop pod

I love Sternguard in a Drop Pod, but you should always try to have and odd number of pods so you can maximize the Drop Pod Assault rule. Don't forget you can combat squad when you disembark from the Pod. With that in mind it is not a bad idea to equip some combi-flamers or combi-plasma also. As for the Ironclad, another model I love but, I would drop the chainfist. The seismic hammer is much better with the plus one to the damage chart.

** Heavy Support **

Predator 165pts
-Twin-linked Lascannon
-Side sponson Lascannons

Predator 165pts
-Twin-linked Lascannon
-Side sponson Lascannons

Predator 85pts
-Autocannon
-Side sponson Heavy bolters

I would drop the Twin-linked Lascannons for 60 pts that just ridiculous. Got to figure your getting 1 str 9 shot with a reroll instead of 2 str 7 shots for 60pts? Personally I love dakka preds but I can see the cost effectiveness of running hybirds

i really recomend dropping the lascannons on the tactical squads, you have enough lascannons with the predators. the plasma cannons were a good idea, just because they didn't work once dosn't mean they won't next time. if your strapped for points Missile launchers can't be beat for versatility

i disagree with general chaos on the predators. don't mish-mash Pred loadouts. you don't get full effectivness each shooting phase

the ironclad should take the Hammer instead of the chainfist because the Fist strikes at Inititive 1 in CC. 2 heavy flamers are a good option for ironclads against hordes. the dred is good at killing vehicles in CC so the melta-gun isn't required.

a third pod would be good to have. you could drop the Jump packs on the assault squad and they will get a drop pod for free

don't mish-mash Pred loadouts. you don't get full effectivness each shooting phase

General Chaos was talk about the autocannon-laspsonson Pred which is the msot effective pred there is. Fire them at Transports (firstly) and then MCs and both weapons work well. Why pay 60 points for 1 las cannon shot by taking the annihilator sponson? The tri-las Predator is just massively over priced for it's effectiveness. The las-sponson Pred will always be a more points efficient option!

Grey Templar wrote:the ironclad should take the Hammer instead of the chainfist because the Fist strikes at Inititive 1 in CC. 2 heavy flamers are a good option for ironclads against hordes. the dred is good at killing vehicles in CC so the melta-gun isn't required.

Didn't think the chainfist was Initiative 1 it's a DCCW so it strikes at regular initiative right?

The meltagun works great for popping a transport and then assaulting troops it's carrying.

Didn't think the chainfist was Initiative 1 it's a DCCW so it strikes at regular initiative right?

It's not a DCCW it is a chainfist, strikes at I1.

Sadly, if you pop a transport with the melta gun you won't be able to assault them as they are a different unit from the one you shot at

it has been discussed, sentenced, shot, and bled to death on the forums and the Chainfist is exactly that, a Chainfist.

Chainfist definition

"exactly the same as a powerfist except it confers 2D6 to the armor penetration roll" see weapons section of the main rule book for full definition



it is a lame thing. i wish the chainfist wasn't Ini1, but it is

Sadly, if you pop a transport with the melta gun you won't be able to assault them as they are a different unit from the one you shot at

You can assault the unit in a transport if you blow up the transport with shooting it expressly allows this in the rules. pg 67 read the Note.

I stand corrected and appreciate that I can do this

have been told for years i couldn't assault the riders after shooting(opponents always reference the rule that says you can only assault the unit you shot at)

Grey Templar wrote:

"exactly the same as a powerfist except it confers 2D6 to the armor penetration roll" see weapons section of the main rule book for full definition



it is a lame thing. i wish the chainfist wasn't Ini1, but it is

Either way it's lame on a Ironclad, unless your playing Planetstrike when you know your gunna have to deal with AR14 breaking open Bastions, that would be the only time I could see using one might be a good idea. The seismic hammer is hands down the better choice.

ok great C&C first off everyone, every post was incredibly insightful. I've decided to deploy assault as sugggested, shielded by my rhinos instead of dropping them in.

and i forgot chainfist struck at I1 so seismic hammer it is. somebody asked if i combat squad tacs, depends on game type and player.

Now i know the odd number drop pod rule. either take 1 or take 3 everyone says. now with this list i've only played against a few semi-competitve lists no true power gamer lists yet. My questions is with using 2 drop pods for ironclad and stern will i really be at a huge disadvantage only being able to drop a single pod turn 1? or should i be ok?? or would the stern be better served in a rhino?

and to clear a few things up since my tacs are las/plas i mainly use the dakka pred for horde control followed by either the ironclad, if its not trying to pop a tank, or my x2 flamer assault squad.

guys? help me out please? thx

drop pods
meltas. multi-meltas. power weapons.
land speeders with multi-meltas and flamers.
vulkan.
thunder hammer terminators.

as a marine player these are the guns you want: bolter, meltagun, multi-melta, flamer, heavy flamer, plasmagun, plasmacannon. the rest is a distraction.

death to the false emperor.

Brother-Chaplain Gaius wrote:My questions is with using 2 drop pods for ironclad and stern will i really be at a huge disadvantage only being able to drop a single pod turn 1? or should i be ok?? or would the stern be better served in a rhino?

It's not gunna be a huge disadvantage, but it doesn't maximize the drop pod assault.

Would you be better off with the Stern in a rhino... well depends. Personally i love Sternguard in a drop pod with a Librarian but that's cause in my neck of the woods I see alot of high toughness MC with invul saves and I love to drop in on them and just rapidfire hellfire rounds into them while casting Nullzone, or dropping them in between two units of armour and then combat squading to take out both targets, but I have ran them in a rhino/razorback and had good success with them also.

My recommendation would be, go with the one drop pod. Just realize whatever you put up there is gunna be alone and in range of just about everything your opponents got. It's a suicide unit but I have no problem with that. It is better to die for the Emperor than to live for yourself.

I too only have 2 drop pods and the one unit coming in is a suicide unit.

However it can be an effective distraction.

No one wants an Ironclad running about in their backfield. my recomendation is: if the ICdrednought can really hurt something with its shooting(say you land right next to some Ard boyz and can take most out with the 2 heavy flamers) do it. Or if you scatter beyond range of your main weapons, pop smoke.

one of 2 things will happen. either the drednought will kill something or pop smoke. the enemy will then pour fire into the dred hoping to kill it, because if he dosen't he will get smushed next turn. that is fire that isn't going to the rest of your army.

if the dred survives, you will have a huge advantage by being able to engage the enemy with some heavy CC goodness. if the dred dies, no big deal, it enabled the rest of your army to weather the incoming fire a little easier.

and how about sternguard would you drop pod them like the ironclad? or give them a rhino?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
guys what should i do here thx

I'm leaning towards rhino for sterns and just podding the ironclad

Your list look fine to me. like a regular SM list i must say notin special about it,

I my opinion i would run the Captain with the stearnguards

I have never used sternguard, but have heard putting them in a drop pod with a Librarian with GOI and Null zone is pretty brutal.

the best use i can see for Sternguard is for killing MCs with their helfire rounds and popping tanks, MEQs, and MCs with Combi-plasma/melta goodness.

Carlsson wrote:Your list look fine to me. like a regular SM list i must say notin special about it,

I my opinion i would run the Captain with the stearnguards

i run him with my assault hes a chaplain not captain

any suggestions face?