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Ok the Rules in the Deamonhunter codex under the description for terminator armor say

"Models in terminator armor may not advance if they win the combat and may only consolidate"

my question is: is "Advance" the same as a "Sweeping advance"? it dosn't expressly forbid models in Terminator armor from having a sweeping advance. therefore can GK terminators Sweeping Advance?

Yes, by strict RAW.
By kind RAW and RAI, no.

You are actually trying to troll me, aren't you?

I can easily argue RAW to follow your point, but seriously... I wouldn't ever imagine me staying in a game playing against anyone that insisted their GK termies was allowed to Sweeping advance.

It's a typo. Since there is no such thing as an 'advance' in 40K, I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who seriously doesn't think the reference is to a Sweeping Advance.

insaniak wrote:It's a typo. Since there is no such thing as an 'advance' in 40K, I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who seriously doesn't think the reference is to a Sweeping Advance.

-Presses Hard-

insaniak wrote:It's a typo. Since there is no such thing as an 'advance' in 40K, I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who seriously doesn't think the reference is to a Sweeping Advance.

Advance means moving towards the enemy, I think the rules are clear that GK termis can sweep, so long as it's not towards the enemy

Gwar! wrote:

insaniak wrote:It's a typo. Since there is no such thing as an 'advance' in 40K, I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who seriously doesn't think the reference is to a Sweeping Advance.

-Presses Hard-

Gwar!, I'm not quite sure how I should interpret your post. I guess at least one, probably two of these alternatives are true.
1) Gwar! likes to play 40k so that GK terminators are allowed sweeping advances.
2) Gwar! likes to play 40k so that GK terminators are not allowed sweeping advances.
3) Gwar! interprets the RAW as: GK teminators are not forbidden to do sweeping advances.

If I know you right, you do not like to presume to be able to guess how the codex author wanted GK terminators to behave. And even if you knew, you would not let this get into the way of a proper RAW-interpretation. You might however let it effect how you like to play the game. Anyhow, you might have made a guess, so I'll add these two alternatives.

4) Gwar! guesses that the rule was intended to stop GK terminators from making Sweeping Advances (or whatever the corresponding rule was called when that codex was printed)
5) Gwar! guesses that the rule was intended to do nothing at all.

And my gut feeling would be something like: 2, 3 and 4 is true. 1 and 5 is false. Did I guess right?

Mellon wrote:Gwar!, I'm not quite sure how I should interpret your post. I guess at least one, probably two of these alternatives are true.
1) Gwar! likes to play 40k so that GK terminators are allowed sweeping advances.
2) Gwar! likes to play 40k so that GK terminators are not allowed sweeping advances.
3) Gwar! interprets the RAW as: GK teminators are not forbidden to do sweeping advances.

If I know you right, you do not like to presume to be able to guess how the codex author wanted GK terminators to behave. And even if you knew, you would not let this get into the way of a proper RAW-interpretation. You might however let it effect how you like to play the game. Anyhow, you might have made a guess, so I'll add these two alternatives.

4) Gwar! guesses that the rule was intended to stop GK terminators from making Sweeping Advances (or whatever the corresponding rule was called when that codex was printed)
5) Gwar! guesses that the rule was intended to do nothing at all.

And my gut feeling would be something like: 2, 3 and 4 is true. 1 and 5 is false. Did I guess right?

Relax, I was just joking about. Obviously Models in Terminator Armour are not supposed to allow Sweeping Advance. However, a player is more than entitled to Sweeping Advance with his DH Terminator Armour Wearing models, and anyone who does object has not a leg to stand on I am afraid.

Mellon wrote:You are actually trying to troll me, aren't you?

I can easily argue RAW to follow your point, but seriously... I wouldn't ever imagine me staying in a game playing against anyone that insisted their GK termies was allowed to Sweeping advance.

I was kidding....jeez. Gwar on the other hand....
(also, I play 'nids. Not DH. Why would I insist that?)

Hehe.. allright, consider my leg pulled... both of you *grin*

I guess this is a sign it's about time I went to bed. See ya tomorrow :-)

This is 3rd edition's fault.

Back in those days, when a unit won a close combat, and their enemy performed a fall back, the winners had the choice to either "Advance" or "Consolidate"

If you Advanced you moved 2d6" in the direction your enemy moved when falling back, and if you caught them they were destroyed.

Sweeping Advance, in those days, was a term which referred to if you happened to roll so high on the 2d6 that while chasing your beaten enemy it turned out you would contact a new enemy unit behind them, starting a fresh assault.

So, logically, the Advances that the Grey Knight Terminators are denied the chance to do is the attempt to annihilate the loser of a close combat through pursuit, which is the modern Sweeping Advance. Of course that being said, plenty of other rules are messed up by edition changes, and there's no reason to only take the bad instances of this, and ignore the advantageous ones.

I may have an older Codex, but I think the exact wording is "...models in Terminator armor that win a close combat may only consolidate; they will not be able to advance." This would prevent you from Sweeping Advance in the modern ruleset as you are only allowed to consolidate. Not just prohibited from "advancing."

so out of these posts i got that

i can be nice and treat it as normal vanilla terminator armor and not sweeping advnce

OR

be a Rules Natzi and sweeping advance people because i can


i might do it just to have some fun messing with my opponent


All hail the emperors mighty Grey Knights Space Marine Termies who have super powers and can rollover other units, just because they can

Thanks Gwar


Automatically Appended Next Post:
in the DH FAQ it states that if a restriction is referencing a rule that no longer exists then the rule is null and void (this is why the "minor psychic powers" can't affect grey Knights is ignored)

therefore if models no longer choose to "advance or consolidate" when the win a combat then they aren't bound by the restriction therein, and can therefore do what ever they darn well please

Actually, my codex shares the same statement as gaylord500, If your codex like ours says "may only consolidate" then that rule is still valid, they may only consolidate when they win a close combat, and may not perform other actions at that point in time.

But, technically it is attached to the Advance rule which is an older out of date rule. so even though it says consolidate it actually references an older rule that no longer exists

therefore it doesnt actually do anything to prevent me from performing a Sweeping advance

because the FAQs state that when a codex references a rule (like deamonic instability) that no longer exists, any reference and rule regarding that rule is null and void

this is why Deamons don't suffer a -1 leadership penality any more, it only applied to instability tests

Grey Templar wrote:But, technically it is attached to the Advance rule which is an older out of date rule. so even though it says consolidate it actually references an older rule that no longer exists

therefore it doesnt actually do anything to prevent me from performing a Sweeping advance

because the FAQs state that when a codex references a rule (like deamonic instability) that no longer exists, any reference and rule regarding that rule is null and void

this is why Deamons don't suffer a -1 leadership penality any more, it only applied to instability tests

But then where do you draw the line, if you are going to say "it references an old rule (advance) so you can ignore not only the reference to advance but also the reference to only being able to consolidate" would not then your opponent be entitled to say "the Terminator Armour rule references an old rule, so you ignore all the rules for terminator armour, it does nothing".

In fact, the grammar and composition of the phrase clearly implies that the inability to advance is simply a side effect of the restriction that you can only consolidate, it is a clarifying statement to ensure no confusion in the rule.

In this case, despite the edition change, the RAW remains clear, models in Terminator Armour may only consolidate when they win a combat, and may not do anything else at that point in time.

Drunkspleen is correct as usual (not always, like the Infallible Gwar!, just usually ). Having re-read my codex, I concede that DH Terminators may "only consolidate", which indirectly prohibits them from Sweeping Advanc[ing].

Yes but after doing the sweeping advance roll you consolidate. So surely your DH Terminators aren't doing anything their codex says you can't. Personally I play my DH termies like vanilla SM ones . . . But by the age old rules of 3rd Ed. There's surely nothing stopping you. It's like playing with my DE all over again . . . "Yes it might say feel no pain, but it works nothing like feel no pain." LMAO!

Oshova