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Made in us
[DCM]
Herald of Nurgle






Eternal Plague

Assume an 1850 game in terms of points and expecting anything really from opponents.

What would be the best way to outfit a kan wall list of 9 Killa Kans? This could be an answer divided up any which way as the player has choices as to what they want to field with the other 70 percent or so of points for the remainder of the army. Just assume a typical slogging kan wall army core of KFF Big Mek and Shoota Boy squads behind it.

Now this is where it gets tricky.

Ork players can field lootas, deffkoptas and buggies in an assorted variety of fast attack and elite options. What do you think would be the optimal list to compliment your choice of weaponry for the Killa Kans.

P.S. I also hold no reservation the Killa Kans could outlast the other portions of the army. Squadron AV 11 walkers are not exactly dakka proof.

   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut





New Zealand

For an all-comers army, give one squad grotzookas (for anti-horde and other soft targets), and the other two squads rokkits (for anti-armour and anti-MEq). Or give all three squads rokkits if you have heaps of big shootas elsewhere in your list.

I will be magnetising my kan shooty arms, but only so I can customise for unusual one-off battles, e.g. KMBs against terminators
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





About to eat your Avatar...

There are good reasons to keep your killa kanz as cheap as possible, but I think the grotzooka is a good compromise. Rokkitz are better on things like deffkoptas anyway, and Orks have very limited use of high power weaponry. If you really want dakka, you're not going to get all that much out of your kanz.

With 3 shots a piece, you'll be lucky to make use of them, as they are basically there to get shot at.

In terms of supplementing a kan wall, the best options seem to be Deffkoptas, or Lootas. Kommandos are an option as well. Overall Deffkoptas add much of what's lacking in any foot-slogging list, but Lootas can deal with most transports reliably. Depends on how you prefer playing really, using less than 2 squads of Lootas at a time is a generally bad idea. Two, 6-7 man squads are ideal. Deffkoptas will be cheaper, you will only need one, 3-man squad to make effective use of them.

Magnetize all your weaponry regardless, or plan to on models that are not magnetized. All of the options for Kanz have their use, but Grotzookas and Rokkits are the best choices overall. With an effective range of 30", Rokkits will be able to get more shots off in general.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/03/08 06:12:13



 
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Inside a pretty, pretty pain cave... won't you come inside?

Clang wrote:For an all-comers army, give one squad grotzookas (for anti-horde and other soft targets), and the other two squads rokkits (for anti-armour and anti-MEq). Or give all three squads rokkits if you have heaps of big shootas elsewhere in your list.

I will be magnetising my kan shooty arms, but only so I can customise for unusual one-off battles, e.g. KMBs against terminators


Probably the way to go. Grotzookas are fun, but should be secondary given that orks handle infantry just fine and need as much ranged anti-vehicle as they can squeeze in. Most kan walls have hordes of shoota boyz behind them, so with all those shoota/big shoota shots, focus on rokkits.

 
   
Made in ca
Three Color Minimum






I'd take Rokkits unless you're fielding a LOT of Koptas with TL Rokkits and/or Buzzsaws. All points above are well-made. You shouldn't have trouble with infantry in any ork list. Hell, if its all infantry you're facing then the Koptas can do that too.

"Never let your morals get in the way of doing what is right" -Issac Asimov (open to interpretation)  
   
Made in us
Stabbin' Skarboy






The choice is basically between rokkits (mediocre anti-tank in an army short on ranged anti-tank) and grotzookas (amazing anti-infantry in an army that specializes in anti-infantry.) For me, I always take lootas in my Ork lists that walk for anti-tank, but I'm still finding that including both on Kans is an excellent strategy.

The grotzookas lay waste to infantry within 18" which is actually very helpful against things like dire avengers or IG infantry platoons that can put out enough shots to hurt Orks or khorne berzerkers and the like that can wipe the mobs in assault. Also, strength 6 is enough to hurt AV 10 and 11 and with 6 shots you can generally do decently well against them, so you're not completely missing out on anti-tank.

On the other hand, the extra range of the rokkits has proven to be very helpful as is their ability to hurt AV 12, which is very nice for facing IG, Tau, and Eldar.

Currently I'm doing 3 grotzookas and 6 rokkits, but I'm still playing with it.

4k 2k
Ork Army-Building Tactica: Heresy online links are disabled until their site comes back online/forums/showthread.php?t=39703
 
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Wrexasaur wrote:There are good reasons to keep your killa kanz as cheap as possible, but I think the grotzooka is a good compromise. Rokkitz are better on things like deffkoptas anyway, and Orks have very limited use of high power weaponry. If you really want dakka, you're not going to get all that much out of your kanz.

With 3 shots a piece, you'll be lucky to make use of them, as they are basically there to get shot at.

In terms of supplementing a kan wall, the best options seem to be Deffkoptas, or Lootas. Kommandos are an option as well. Overall Deffkoptas add much of what's lacking in any foot-slogging list, but Lootas can deal with most transports reliably. Depends on how you prefer playing really, using less than 2 squads of Lootas at a time is a generally bad idea. Two, 6-7 man squads are ideal. Deffkoptas will be cheaper, you will only need one, 3-man squad to make effective use of them.

Magnetize all your weaponry regardless, or plan to on models that are not magnetized. All of the options for Kanz have their use, but Grotzookas and Rokkits are the best choices overall. With an effective range of 30", Rokkits will be able to get more shots off in general.



Uh...no. BS 3 > BS 2
   
Made in ca
Three Color Minimum






Actually eNvY, I think he means the added mobility of the Kopta, the fact that it can scout (side armour=better for rokkits) and you can have a lone Kopta for hunting or 5 to make sure the target gets wrecked.

The Koptas even hit more often. BS3 means .5 hits per shot, TL BS2 means .333 hits before reroll and 0.55 or so hits after.

Think before you post.

"Never let your morals get in the way of doing what is right" -Issac Asimov (open to interpretation)  
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Herald of Nurgle






Eternal Plague

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I'm going to take a look into the mixing of rokkits and grotzookas and see what is a good balance.

   
Made in au
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





Fedan Mhor

Does that extra 0.05 actually make a difference? Im not so keen on mathhammer since I hate numbers, but it seems it's almost negligible. Besides, Im not so keen on the suicide nature that most people seem to run their deffkoptas in, and thus I prefer a kanwall to be my long-ranged anti-tank delivery. A whole mass of walking, stomping, fire platforms to lay out some rokkits to pop transports, for the boys to handle its contents. Yep, that's how a kan wall works best... (dont forget the KFF Mek!)

1500 
   
Made in au
Malicious Mandrake





Personally, I run 9 rokkit buggies along with 9 kans, all rokkits, two KFF meks, and as many boyz as possible. The result; lots of 4+ cover armour, and a ton of ranged anti-tank backed up by close combat nastiness and anti heavy armour.

Trust me, its a highly competetive and very mean list.

For higher pts values, add lootas, but for now 18 rokkit launchas will suffice.

*Click*  
   
Made in ca
Three Color Minimum






That, Warboss Gutrip, sounds like a solid list. The buggies can fill the mobile hunting Rokkits role of the Kopta for less points while the Kans' Rokkits deal with more imminent threats in front of your wall. I would love to face this list and see how I do. The main challenge would be getting through the KFF saves and taking down enough damn Kans before they get to you. Whew.

On Mathhammer: As much as .05 extra hits makes little difference I find that having that reroll makes me feel better when I'm shooting. Something about taking a miss and turning it into a hit just warms me inside.

"Never let your morals get in the way of doing what is right" -Issac Asimov (open to interpretation)  
   
Made in us
Waaagh! Warbiker






MT

I started experimenting with a kan wall, and used a hybrid list (as I dont have enough boyz or kans). I had three kans with big shootas in front of 30 boyz and a kff. I also had 15 lootas, 4 deffkoptas, 6 bike nobz and one full unit of bw nobz. The general strategy was to run everything around and cause trouble while the kans and boyz either held objectives or made it up the board, and it seemed to work.
The reason I took shootas was because its cheap and I figured 9 str 5 range 36" shots were better then 3 range 24" str 8 shots. I also assumed that most of the really dangerous armor has an higher effective range then kans do (Hammerheads for instance), deffkoptas allow me to get to stuff like that and possibly hit side or rear armor. Plus I had enough anti armor in my list.

~3000pt, ~ 2500pt skaven ~2000pt
TrollBloods 35pt
"SHHH. My common sense is tingling."--Deadpoool
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote: ...it doesn't matter how many times I make a false statement, it will still be false.

 
   
Made in ru
Yellin' Yoof





Hammerhead are worst tank to deal with kanwall, hehe. They are bulletproof vs most oponents. Especialy with kff mek.

Dreadmob
w-l-d
15-16-10
Alfa legion
7-5-3

 
   
Made in au
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




Some Tau World

put grotzookas on all 9 killa kans 18 Str 6 blast is even better then it sounds 6 will always hit and with BS 3 any dice rolls of 6 or under will still hit the unit and horde armys you can't miss.

deffkoptas are great in an apocalypes game i had, 3 deffkoptas with twin-rokkits and 1 buzzsaw killed a Baneblade. just hit and run 3 str 8 shots then 3 str 7 attacks


all ur base are belong to da

all the armies i used to beat b4 6ed




 
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Inside a pretty, pretty pain cave... won't you come inside?

Best thing to do with kans is magnetize the gun arm while putting together and give yourself the option to switch it around. I'm going with all rokkits right now because I want to annihilate vehicles much more than I care about infantry or hordes. No one really plays horde around here and I have DCCWs, skorchas (dreads), burnas (big meks), and shoota boyz for infantry. Plus, I have crap luck with scatter dice, so the damn grotzookas always miss horribly for me on normal sized units.

 
   
Made in us
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'






I would go with 9 Grotzookas because throwing that many templates at S6 will turn anything into fine paste... as for things to support the kans, I would go with the following.
  • 2 Big Meks with a KFF,Cybork body,Burna (Redundancy is good and contributing to combat is cool)
  • 2 mobs of 30 orks with shootas (taking objectives is cool)
  • 2 Deff Dreads (with 2x Skorcha, extra armor, and grot riggers)
  • 6 Rokkit Buggies (stopping people from moving around the wall is kinda cool, plus S8 shots)
  • 2 mobs of 14 lootas (Killing things form 48" away is cool)

  • Luke_Prowler wrote:Is it just me, or do Ork solutions always seems to be "More Lootas", "More Boyz" Or "More Power Klaws"?
    starbomber109 wrote:Behold, the true ork player lol.
    I have to admit, I miss the old Infantry battles of 4E compared to this 5E wonderland of APCs/IFVs everywhere. It's like we jumped from WWI to WWII.

    ChrisCP wrote: KFFs... Either 50% more [anti-tank] than your opponent expects or 50% less [anti-tank] than you expect.

    Your worlds will burn until their surface is but glass. Your destruction is for the Greater Good, and we are instruments of Its most Glorious Path.
     
       
    Made in ca
    Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





    Collingwood, ON. Canada

    This thread is great, im soon to be getting a few Kans myself and seeing the tactics here is a huge help!

    Waaagh! Skarshak - 8000pts CSM - Cult of Ezmirr - 350pts

    Proud founder / member of the Dorklords Game Club (find us on facebook & youtube)

     
       
    Made in us
    [DCM]
    Longtime Dakkanaut






    In da Mekshop

    I've run a stompy Kan list for a long time, and when kanz went up to BS3 it was a great day. Rokkits were actually hitting things for once.

    Mathhammer aside, that .5 'extra' you get from a twin-linked Rokkit fired by an ork with BS2 doesn't really add up to a snotlings' fingernail. I've missed far more times with a Deffcopta's twin-linked rokkits than I've missed with the Rokkit-armed BS3 kanz.

    I have had bad luck with Koptas, just bad. They can be easily over-extended and unsupported by the rest of the army, and their Toughness means that S3 weapons are still a threat.

    With a list that runs Big Meks with KFFs, you'd get more bang for your buck with Rokkit Buggies or Skorcha Buggies or Trakks. The Skorchas can whittle down infantry that may be hiding hidden powerfists that will wreck your kanz' day. The buggies will get more advantage from a KFF-equipped mek if he's in a Trukk to support them.

    -GrimTeef-
    Proud mod of The-Waaagh forum and Vice-President of the Brian Nelson is a Sculpting God Club 
       
     
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