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This is my present planned list for my 1850 DKoK army. I am trying to stay reasonably in theme without gimping myself too much. Thus, I am trying to run fairly limited numbers of Chimeras (presently only the command squads have them as command vehicles). I have included Straken to bolster the foot units as the Vraks books talk about the DKoK emphasizing bayonet drill and massed assaults (under the old codex Krieg were all "hardened" for WS 4 and I think Straken is a pretty good deal anyway).

I am trying to be careful to buy only what I need in the order I need it (as it is so expensive). Here it is:

Company Command Squad (290 pts)
(Medi-pack; Plasmagun x2; Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken; Master of Ordnance)
Chimera (Heavy Bolter; Turret Multi-Laser)

Infantry Platoon (445 pts)
Platoon Command Squad (Meltagun x4)
Chimera (Turret Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer)
Infantry Squad (GL; AC)
Commissar (Power Weapon)
Sergeant (Power Weapon)
Infantry Squad (GL; AC)
Sergeant (Power Weapon)
Infantry Squad (GL; AC)
Heavy Weapons Squad (Mortar x3)

Infantry Platoon (385 pts)
Platoon Command Squad (Meltagun x4)
Chimera (Turret Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer)
Infantry Squad (GL; AC)
Commissar (Power Weapon)
Sergeant (Power Weapon)
Infantry Squad (GL; AC)
Sergeant (Power Weapon)
Infantry Squad (GL; AC)

Leman Russ Demolisher (Lascannon; Pintle Heavy Stubber) @ 190 pts

Leman Russ Demolisher (Lascannon; Pintle Heavy Stubber) @ 190 pts

Colossus @ 140 pts

Rough Riders x 6 (60 pts)
Sergeant (Meltabombs)

Vendetta Gunship, Heavy Bolters (140 pts)

The MoO is in the list for fluffiness and I intend to run the Vendetta as a dedicated gunship most of the time (As a naval attachment, the Death Korps owns no grav chutes!) The mortars are mostly there to act as a troop choice to count as holding my own base, if necessary. I am also considering removing the plasmas from the CCS, dropping the mortars and the bolter sponsons from the Vendetta, and dropping the lascannons on the LRD's which would let me run a second Vendetta. I am kind of ambivalent about the Vendettas from a fluff point of view, but it might work better from a tactical perspective. As an alternative, I could use the points to by a Medusa (which would be fluffier) but I'd have to run the LRD's in a squadron.

Any suggestions? Will it do OK?

Thanks in advance to all who reply.

No help from anyone?

Yo AG, I like it. No comments doesn't surprise me; non-mech lists don't garner much attention atm. I just posted one, similar to this, and it took a full day for someone to comment, only to say "go all mech or all infantry, it's the only way". Maybe in theoryhammer, but I play with hybrid lists every week...

I think your list has some good balance - 75 scoring squishies, some mobility, 3 pieplates, good mix of weapons, and fluffy enough to take to bed. Most of the fat is fluffy - MoO, PW's. I'd trade the LRD pintle stubbers for meltas in your RR squad, and maybe the HB sponsons on the vend for a pintle stubber on the CCS chim - 9 dice at 36" has always treated me well.

I'm not sure about the options you listed at the end. Vends are popular, but not that fluffy here. The colossus is pretty fluffy as-is. I don't think whatever you choose will make or break the list, so go with your gut.

Well, I don't know exactly what you're going for, but from a purely competitive standpoint (that's just how I like to play, and what I'm better giving advice for) I have a few suggestions.

I personally don't like the master of ordnance. While he is quite cheap, he is also highly innacurate, and you usually don't even want to shoot him at the same thing as the plasmas anyway. I would swap him for two more plasmas. Do you want straken to be more of an army buff and just sit him back and let him give your units the FC/CA, or do you actually intend for him to charge in? (it really just depends on playstyle, I think he can do either)
If you intend to move and charge him in, swap the plasmas for meltas and a heavy flamer if you'd like. I would also buy carapace armour, and take a heavy flamer on his chimera as well. If you want him to just buff your guys, the simple swap for MoO for plasmas is fine.

I think how you kitted out the infantry platoons is quite good, although you don't really need 4 meltas (usually, lol) and there is the option to swap one out for a heavy flamer. Giving all of your units the ability to on both infantry and tanks effectively is a good thing. (effectively being the operative word there, most either try to specialize too much, or make a unit do what it just can't).
I also don't see why you're taking the mortars. I just think the autocannons are far more versatile and effective for the small expense.

I usually don't suggest rough riders even though the combination of them and straken makes me giggle. I don't think they are needed though, and you could really do without them. If we really need the points, I think they could be better spent elsewhere.

Vendettas are great as we all know. lol. But I think you need at least a pair to be effective. But I'm just going to warn you (I don't know how many games you have played with them) everyone knows how effective they are, and the combination of only amour 12 and the impossibility of getting cover saves, you probably won't ever get to shoot them because they're such a target lol. So don't get your hopes up, and just be happy their not shooting at other things. There is also the option of taking hellhounds (or variants) instead as well, and I think they fit DKoK much more.

I don't think the upgrade for the lascannon on leman russes is ever worth it. Ever. 15 points for 1 bs3 lascannon is just not efficient. I don't like the stubbers for the same reason. They're just not worth it. I also think that the demolisher's short range hurts it quite a lot, not to mention the guard artillery is just superb.

I understand the attraction to colossi, I really do. The idea of denying marines both their amour and cover save is just awesome. This is also why they are so highly overpriced. They do kill marines, but thats really the only thing they do, and their still not that accurate. They can't take on vehicles at all, and I just think guard don't need to rely on the colossus to kill marines. If you want artillery I would take a look at a manticore, a pair of hydras, or a medusa. The manticore and medusa fill the same role as the demolishers except with superior range, while the hydras are very efficient at light amour/MC hunting.


So taking all of this into account, I think the biggest changes need to be made are in your fast attack and heavy support sections. Are you married to the vendettas/demolishers? Or are you open to something completely different?

I do think I want to keep the Demolishers. That's kind of why I added the Vendetta, to get a bit more long ranged firepower. I'd rather keep the demolishers than the Vendetta as it's more fluffy for Krieg.

The heavy flamer in the PCS would be interesting. Unfortunately, the DKoK range doesn't include a heavy flamer (except for a two man model in grenadier armor which looks awesome but matches no known basing convention). I could swap one for a regular flamer though... or I guess use the regular flamer as a heavy as I don't have any other flamers in the list.

The only reason I took the mortars is to have a unit to sit on my own base, if necessary, that could still fire with no LOS.

I could certainly see replacing the Vendetta with some Hellhound variant. I had considered a Banewolf (for the chemical warfare connotations for Krieg, mostly).

For Straken, I mostly intend for him to provide FC/CC but still be available for a counterattack in case something gets into my platoons that they simply can't hurt.

If you want to stick with the demolishers, I'm afraid you're also stuck with the vendettas. You usually go with templates, and multiple high strength shots, one from FA, one from HS. Which is which is up to you. The two just work together. So basically the only adjustments I have are to swap the MoO for another plasma (yes, just one), and then drop the rough riders, the colossus, and the upgrades on the leman russes and pick up two more vendettas with heavy bolters. Thats 1845 I believe. I just don't think they are very fluffy for DKoK.. but the hellhound variants don't mesh well with demolishers.


@murdog- I just don't think people wanted to respond because your list was unfortunately kind of a mess.. It's difficult to give constructive criticism when really the best criticism is to start over.. I'm just trying to be completely honest. I think the DKoK list had a nice solid core, and just needed a few adjustments.

It didn't seem too much different from this one - two platoons with support elements...

The biggest difference is this: "I do think I want to keep the Demolishers. That's kind of why I added the Vendetta, to get a bit more long ranged firepower. I'd rather keep the demolishers than the Vendetta as it's more fluffy for Krieg."

He knows what he wants, and he goes with it. He has a theme. Your list just seemed like a kid in a candy store. "OO I want this and this and this and that!"

Here's the version with more Imperial Navy support. I looked at trying to do a couple of other variants with Creed rather than Straken and using HWT's instead of the Vendettas. They just didn't look like they'd work nearly as well. I've kept the Rough Riders as I've had some success with them and the DKoK rough rider models are really great! I also fixed their price. What do you think of this version?


Company Command Squad (260 pts)
(Medi-pack; Plasmagun x2; Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken)
Chimera (Heavy Bolter; Turret Multi-Laser)

Infantry Platoon (385 pts)
Platoon Command Squad (Meltagun x4)
Chimera (Turret Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer)
Infantry Squad (GL; AC)
Commissar (Power Weapon)
Sergeant (Power Weapon)
Infantry Squad (GL; AC)
Sergeant (Power Weapon)
Infantry Squad (GL; AC)
Heavy Weapons Squad (Mortar x3)

Infantry Platoon (385 pts)
Platoon Command Squad (Meltagun x4)
Chimera (Turret Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer)
Infantry Squad (GL; AC)
Commissar (Power Weapon)
Sergeant (Power Weapon)
Infantry Squad (GL; AC)
Sergeant (Power Weapon)
Infantry Squad (GL; AC)

Leman Russ Demolisher (Pintle Heavy Stubber) @ 175 pts

Leman Russ Demolisher (Pintle Heavy Stubber) @ 175 pts

Colossus @ 140 pts

Rough Riders x 6 (70 pts)
Sergeant (Meltabombs)

Vendetta Gunship (130 pts)

Vendetta Gunship (130 pts)

Im a little confused *scratches head*

Your list is at 1940 right now by my count.. unless I am missing something, what point total are you aiming for?

I still don't like the heavy stubbers, and colussus, tbh. I just think that there are other artillery options that are more effective, and have more duality than the colosuss does.

I like the heavy bolters on the vendetta because it is only ten points for 6 more s5 shots. what's not to like?

Sorry, I had forgotten to adjust some of the point values. It's corrected now. The heavy stubbers are there mostly because that's the way my demolishers are modeled. I could drop the colossus, but I don't know what I'd replace it with. The manticore is likely the best Arty available, but it isn't very Krieg-like. I suppose I could go with a medusa.

Hmm. To be completely honest... I think deathstrikes and DKoK are like best buddies, because of the whole krieg nuclear winter/fallout thing. Am I right? I haven't read that much about them though, to be honest... Have you taken that into consideration? A tri-deathstrike list? Just for funsies?

I've played it once. Probably the most fun game I've ever had. lol.


But to answer your thoughts.. why don't you just find the 5 points (stop being stubborn and drop the stubbers lol) and put in another demolisher over artillery? I think 3 demolishers just give you a lot of board control. They scare the crap out of people, and that can sometimes be just as powerful as actually killing them.

I might go three demolishers... I'd probably drop one vendetta though and get some other stuff in the list that I'd like...

Vendettas are awesome on paper (haven't even had the chance to play one yet) but it must be said they ain't that suitable for the look of krieg models. I think it would be viable to replace the colossus with a medusa, and then take banewolves (which have the same AP3 task) instead of vendettas.

I kind of agree with you. That's one reason that if I decide to run Vendettas at all, they will be painted in Imperial Navy colors to differentiate them from the ground forces and be used as dedicated gunships (no passengers). I'm still exploring alternatives...