Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Daemonhunters Codex:

"A Rhino or Chimera using it's top hatch as a fire point will count as open topped if the saving throw of any of its passengers is worse than 3+."

40k Rule Book

"...all passengers in an open-topped vehicle may fire, measuring range and line of sight from the hull of the vehicle."

Soooo... all of the passengers can fire?

I believe the rule for firing points comes to play here; with Rhino's having 1, and Chimera having 2.

Yep, the open-topped bit only applies for damage results during you opponent's next turn.

That quote is missing the "in the opponents next shooting phase" part, which explains exactly what is meant by "counts as open topped"

No, you dont get to fire everything out of it, it is a penalty not a help.

Indeed. Quote the whole rule next time. It is only open topped in your enemies turn, not yours.

nosferatu1001 wrote:That quote is missing the "in the opponents next shooting phase" part...

Page 33 of the Witch Hunters and Page 30 of the Daemon Hunters codex there is no such line. Please read your Codex instead of making up imaginary rules lines. It's an easy mistake to make, one I did my self, but it does not specify precisely when or for how long it counts as open topped. It's fair to assume it lasts until your next shooting phase, when you can opt to NOT use the top hatch thus voiding the condition and it's effect, but exactly WHEN it comes in to play is shady.

I was hoping for a better explanation of why (obviously) you can't fire everyone, instead of GWAR being all like "HUR QUOTE MOAR PLX" which is terribly unhelpful since as I stated that's the WHOLE sentence from the codex.

How do you think it would look when I try to explain to my local TO that "Well GWAR said read all the rules." ... and they do ... and come to the same conclusion? Remember, it's not "40K You Flame Da Noob" I think this section of the forums is more to explain how AND WHY the rules are interpreted.

I look forward to a more elaborate and eloquent reply

Well, considering it doesn't count as open topped until you have declared your shooting, at which point you can hardly go back and say "But it's open topped NOW"...

And for the Record, the WH Entry explicitly states "when shot at or assaulted".

That's funny where in the original question does it say WH.

If you’re going to bust on him because you thought he did not quote the whole rule don't answer for a codex that's not in the point (even though he brought it up)

As Written it never says until you declared your shooting. It says using its top hatch as a fire point.

I know people that would say at the time they are using/firing it is opened top, They are not using it on your opponents turn they stopped when they finished firing.

Otherwise explain how they are using it as a fire point on the other players turn. It should say it was used as a fire point but it doesn’t.

I believe this should be if you fired that turn then on the other players turn it should be open topped. I'm not the one always pointing to specifically the way things are worded and arguing the points.

The INAT FAQ mentions the 'added' repair rule to the Rhino that (correct me if I'm wrong, with a page number) is not in the codex, and it explicitly describes the fire points of Rhino and Chimera (including the lasguns, which I can also not find the page for) but doesn't mention ANY ruling on the open topped-ness of firing out of the chimera.

I find this strange as it is obviously an old rule that, ideally, should at least have some clarification (since the new chimera has 5 fire points, no lasguns and no open topped counting).