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I apologize if this was brought up in the previous thread, but I didn't feel like slogging through the entire thing.

I was told at Adepticon by a very reliable source that in 8th ed Fantasy, Rank and File units will be able to go 10 wide, that combat will be fought to completion in one turn and that infantry will fight 2 deep, 3 with spears.

I hope this is true as it will make the game look cooler, and combat will be so much more effective. As it is, there is so much variability as 5 wide one rank deep, you throw so few dice. With 2 to 3 ranks and 10 wide, you start throwing dice like 40K which brings you closer to average and makes the game go back to blocks of infantry and away from the skirmish style game it is now.

And this I can't for the life of me remember if my contact told me or if someone in the conversation said it as something that they hoped would happen, but I will repeat it anyway with an extra pinch of salt. Calvary will cause impact hits on the charge.

So at any rate it sounds like the game will be having some major changes which it really needs. As it stands Fantasy is so out of whack with balance issues that I don't enjoy playing it that much. 40K is much more enjoyable to me now, although I have to admit I am more than a little worries about what Blood Angels are bringing to the table. We will see on that issue though, it is easy to think the sky is falling before we actually play a dex and see how good or bad it really is.

Anyway, there is some rumor stew for everyone on this fine, Friday morning.

My friends and I have never had balance issues with the game it self. It always comes down to list constrution and tatics. I am personal leary of all the new changes that have been talked about.

Perhaps it seems out of balance to me because of my lack of experience and my army.

It seems to be the general consensus though, that Fantasy has a very strongly tiered system, meaning some armies are just powerhouses while others struggle.

If the tournament at Adepticon was anything to go by, I strongly agree with that. Daemons, VC, Fark Elves, and Lizzies pretty much dominate.

I could be wrong, but I know as a Wood Elf player, if I see Daemons across from me, it will take a miracle to pull off victory. Any other army I do fine with.

But again, I don't play Fantasy as much, and my knowledge of the game is limited so it could just be my lack of experience.

Can they not go ten wide now? Or are you saying they must be at least ten wide?

I heard must be 10 wide to get a rank bonus. The person I heard it from could have misunderstood though so again, pinch of salt.

Yes they can! Haha, that shows my lack of experience right there.

I assume it means they must go 10 wide as everyone in attendance acted fairly shocked. I am used to seeing infantry blocks 5 wide.

Sorry about that, I play Wood Elves, nothing I use ranks up.

But that is what I was told, so it may be open to interpretation in this case.

GW must have decided that they need to sell more Fantasy miniatures. I mean, for a standard WHFB troops box of 16 models, that generally gives you a decent block with +2 combat resolution. 10 wide? Man, you couldn't even make a second rank with a single box of models. That's ridiculous to me.

10 wide for a rank bonus. I dont beleive that, but I do believe you read about it yesterday, on the 1st.

10 wide would be a 'good idea' for GW as it meant more models being sold but it means 40 models for a full unit, from this GW can increase game size and sell larger armies.

However:

1. Unless GW started to box up infantry in units of forty and only marginally increased the price it would put off a lot of gamers.

2. The effort to paint a single unit would be too much for many gamers. GW sells units in painting batches, always did. A unit of ten cavalry or twenty infantry is good for a sitting, You could get all the boots done or all the faces etc at once. Forty is too much.

3. Combats resolved in a single turn gets rid of tarpits and tarpits are valid tactics. The classic hold up the slayers with the zombies will no longer work.

Perhaps Jervis was enough of a moron to actually think is a good idea, that I can believe. But someone in GW studio ought to be level headed enough to see this for the colossally bad idea it is.

A GW store Manager told me he was told from his higher ups to grear up his fantasy terrain for a Summer 8th ed fantasy release. He was told that the magic system is getting an overhaul. No details, but he was nervous since he plays VC. I for one am happy to see some changes since I love WFB but have found it less fun to play in 7th ed. I really hope to see big blocks of infantry to make a come back and I hope that chariots get the ability to march, but thats just me. Impack hits for cav would be great but we'll see.

-Korthu

10 wide is just too much. honestly, I think for just about any army a 5x5 block is perfect. works good and looks good. Personally I feel the rank bonus should be 5 wide for man sized bases, 4 wide for chaos sized, 3 wide for ogre sized. If you want your army to look like you have thin rows of troops going straight across the battlefield, you still can also.

And here I actually liked the fact that you didn't have to roll a bucket of dice every time you needed to do something in WFB...

Wow, that makes my units of ghouls much better! 2 ranks of ghouls with a ghast, thats 21 attacks praying for poisons!

I like to run my orcs in 6x3 blocks. or 5x3. I can't wait for a new O&G Army book. we really need one.

I can see the magic stystem getting a bit of a tweak but the 10 frontage idea seems to be a bit of a stretch for me.

I played a LOT of Warhammer Ancients back in the day (still the same basic combat mechanics as WHFB) and fighting the immensely wide Ancient German warbands made for a clumsy round or three of combats. (Fortunately the wide-frontage was unique to only one or two types of armies).

4-6 frontage seems to be golden for most gameplay.

10 wide just wouldn't fit on a standard 6 x 4 table with armies like O&G, Skaven, or hell even Empire.

I do think that they are going to give infantry blocks serious bonuses, but this sounds more like a hindrance than anything else.

Bye-the-bye...does anyone have an idea when "this summer" 8th edition is supposed to drop?

Xyz'r'Xaz'r'Xuz wrote:Bye-the-bye...does anyone have an idea when "this summer" 8th edition is supposed to drop?

When is Games Day US? My guess is then.

- Salvage

Looks like the US GW Gamesday is August 21st for this year.

Could be interesting...

I think 10 man wide is a too much. Though i'd like to see magic buffed a tad.

I can't see the 'combats done in 1 turn' thing as being true.

It just doesn't make any sense at all to go that route...

Alpharius wrote:I can't see the 'combats done in 1 turn' thing as being true.

It just doesn't make any sense at all to go that route...

Unless they simplified combat in some way, but yes, most of this doesn't seem right to be honest. Cavalry impact hits though make perfect sense. Been arguing this for years

If they do give cavalry impact hits, how will they change chariots? As is, impact hits are the only advantage that chariots have over regular cavalry.

You guys understand that the models aren't getting cheaper in points right?

Moving to ten wide just means that there will be half as many units on the table, not twice as many models...

Jin wrote:If they do give cavalry impact hits, how will they change chariots? As is, impact hits are the only advantage that chariots have over regular cavalry.

I dunno, but chariot impact hits will probably be higher strength.

The fact is if you get charged by cavalry, it's being run over by a load of horses that does most of the damage, not the blokes in the saddle (lances & spears aside).

Orlanth wrote:10 wide for a rank bonus. I dont beleive that, but I do believe you read about it yesterday, on the 1st.

You misread what I wrote, I was TOLD this at Adepticon by a friend who has always had reliable information, I didn't read it on April Fools Day.

But you are free to believe or disbelieve it at your discretion, just don't misread what I wrote as you may throw other people off with your opinions.

I field Ogre Kingdom. Even a 4x6 table will not be enough for a 10 wide unit. If you feel that WHFB does not have a balance issue, take OK for a change.

@Flashman - oh, I don't disagree with the change. I'd love to see that happen. Just wondering how they would adjust chariots. I can only imagine a S buff to the chariot impact hits or just more base impact hits.

Shep wrote:You guys understand that the models aren't getting cheaper in points right?

Moving to ten wide just means that there will be half as many units on the table, not twice as many models...

Remember when 40K went from 2nd edition to 3rd?

And the points for a Space Marine Tac Squad trooper was basically cut in half?

I can see GW doing something like this here as well, 'forcing' us to buy more troops.... 'for the good of the game' (and GW's bottom line!).

Reecius wrote:I could be wrong, but I know as a Wood Elf player, if I see Daemons across from me, it will take a miracle to pull off victory. Any other army I do fine with.

Yes, but as a wood elf player, aren't you worried about blocks of troops getting stronger, when we rely on hit-and-run tactics with skirmishing or light units, rather than on models fighting in blocks/ranks?

I know it worries me as a woodie... I'm just curious why you would think this would help balance the game out for the army that you (and I) play!

Think about it for one minute. 10 wide - 25mm bases. 25 centimetre front. As an OK player who for fits and giggles ran a unit that got 2 rank bonuses that is the most unwieldy unit going that gets hit by combined rear/ flank charges each time. Ick.

But, imagine how many customers will suddenly find out that their army is playable under the new rules and have to run out and buy troops. Epic win right there. Just not for the customer.