Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Orcs and Goblins Gorba'ds Blood Ocean – 2250

Lords and Heroes: 655
1 Gorbad (Nogg's Banner of Butchery) 310
1 Orc Shaman (Level 2, Power Stone, Dispell scroll) 150
1 Night Goblin Big Boss (Sneaky Skewerer, Wollopa's One Hit Wunda, Talisman of Protection) 65
1 Night Goblin Shaman (Level 2, Magic Mushrooms (2), Disspell Scroll) 130

Core Units: 985
1 Orc Boyz (15, Big 'uns, double Choppas, SB, boss, musician, Gork's WAAAGH! Banner) 207
2 Orc Boyz (15, Big 'uns, Shields, SB, Boss, Musician, War Banner) 388
2 Night Goblin (20, SB, Musician, boss, 2 Fanatics) 260
1 Night Goblin (20, SB, Musician, Boss, 2 Fanatics) 130

Special Units: 263
1 Black Orcs (10, SB, Musician, Boss, War Banner) 193
2 Spear Chukka (2) 140
1 Rock Lobber 70

Rare Units: 200
1 Troll (2, Stone) 120
1 Troll (2) 80

If I screwed up anywhere with my items let me know and i'll fix it. currently at 2243. anything in the Armybook is legal so i decided to go with a army of big 'uns. figured it owuld be fun and I've yet to play in a WHFB tournament and don't know the local scene yet. If I were to go with this list I would need to get a Rock Lobber, 2 more Spear Chukkas, 3 more trolls, 2 things of NG Fanatics, 2 more things of Boyz and Gorbad, A gak load more superglue, and more paints. but yeah let me know what you guys think. I know O&G seem to be on the low tier according to the forums but I tend to play for fun but with a Win At All Costs style (without being a hole)

Well, the sneaky skewerer and wollopa's one hit wunda are both magic weapons, i think, so your big boss can't have both.

As far as the list goes, it seems ok. A standard swarm list that should do ok. If i were you though i'd include some fast cavalry, to march block, table quarters etc, and a chariot or two, for extra impact along with your trolls.

Good work so far though

appended list:

2248/2250

Lords and Heroes: 655
1 Gorbad (Nogg's Banner of Butchery) 310
1 Orc Shaman (Level 2, Power Stone, Dispell scroll) 150
1 Night Goblin Big Boss (Wollopa's One Hit Wunda, Talisman of Protection, Sword of Might) 70
1 Night Goblin Shaman (Level 2, Magic Mushrooms (2), Disspell Scroll) 130

Core Units: 985
1 Orc Boyz (15, Big 'uns, double Choppas, SB, boss, musician, Gork's WAAAGH! Banner) 207
2 Orc Boyz (15, Big 'uns, Shields, SB, Boss, Musician, War Banner) 388
2 Night Goblin (20, SB, Musician, boss, 2 Fanatics) 260
1 Night Goblin (20, SB, Musician, Boss, 2 Fanatics) 130

DSpecial Units: 263
1 Black Orcs (10, SB, Musician, Boss, War Banner) 193
2 Spear Chukka (2) 140
1 Rock Lobber 70

Rare Units: 200
1 Troll (2, Stone) 120
1 Troll (2) 80

What would you suggest me giving up to gain a chariot or two? i haven't ordered my rock lobber or my 2 more spearr chukkas yet so those aren't guaranteed yet. I do have a thing of Spider Riders from BFSP. IIRC it is 10 spider riders.

Gorbad can't take any magic standards. Sorry. He just counts as your BSB and General. I also think he doesn't give the bonus for a standard, he just confers the bonus' of having one in regard to re-rolls.

Night Goblin Big Boss can't take Wallopa's and the Sword of Might. They're both magic weapons.

The 10 BOrcs aren't going to be much good outside slamming someone in the flank.

The four trolls I can't see doing much of anything. Yeah, they're Ld. 10 w/ re-roll to breaks, but even so six WS3 attacks or 2 S5 no-save hits aren't going to do much against most enemies.

A lot of this list just doesn't look quite right to me. Gorbad's fine IMO, but you're going to want to keep him out of harms way for as long as possible. With no unit larger than 15 big (other than Goblins), that's going to be difficult. You might want to try making bigger units.

Minsc wrote:Gorbad can't take any magic standards. Sorry. He just counts as your BSB and General. I also think he doesn't give the bonus for a standard, he just confers the bonus' of having one in regard to re-rolls.

Night Goblin Big Boss can't take Wallopa's and the Sword of Might. They're both magic weapons.

The 10 BOrcs aren't going to be much good outside slamming someone in the flank.

The four trolls I can't see doing much of anything. Yeah, they're Ld. 10 w/ re-roll to breaks, but even so six WS3 attacks or 2 S5 no-save hits aren't going to do much against most enemies.

A lot of this list just doesn't look quite right to me. Gorbad's fine IMO, but you're going to want to keep him out of harms way for as long as possible. With no unit larger than 15 big (other than Goblins), that's going to be difficult. You might want to try making bigger units.

thanks for the clarification on Gorbad. I thought it saying he counted as my BSB meant I was to pick one. what do you suggest for my army? I was mostly going to be using the Borcs to Quell Animosity initially then slam into someone. do you suggest no rare units? or a giant to take some blows? or maybe a doom diver? you didn't really give me any suggestions you just critiqued the list. i can't make it better with what you said.

. You might want to try making bigger units.

^^^^

That was his general suggestion to you.

I can go with 3 groups of 20 for orc boyz instead by buying a thing of the orc boyz little pack thing (the one for ~$8) that would bring me up to 60 orcs and 60 Night Goblins. Don't know what i could drop though. I don't have the cash for the Boar Boyz. almost 60 bones for 5 units is obscene.

Orc Boyz tend to do best between 18 and 30 big, depending on role and the like. For instance, 18 Big 'Uns with Nogs Banner of Butchery can be nasty due to two ranks (pre-casualties), a six wide from, and - if armed with two Choppas - eighteen WS4 S5 attacks on the charge. For Goblins, I suggest an average unit size of at least 24 models, and preferably about 30 (40 can work at times, but rarely more than that unless you're making a WTF-Huge block to toss Skarsnik and a BSB in).

30-big blocks of Orcs tend to be anvils, but Night Goblins - outside S3, non-armor piercing enemies - tend to do the same thing as the 30 big Orc block for for slightly cheaper at a minor loss of reliability and counter-offense (Versus WS4 S4, a Netter, Hand Weapon & Shield Night Goblin unit has the same durability as an Orc Boy with a Shield: 3's to be hit, 4's to be wounded, a 5+ save. Goblins are 30 w/ command for 145 sans fanatics, Orcs are 150 for 20 with command). Against Big 'Uns the Night Goblins lose some of their edge (Boyz are hit on 4's in that scenario), but gain an even bigger point edge in that for 150pts you're getting only 12 Big 'Uns plus command. As such, large block Orc units seem to be on the decline unless you're upgrading the Orc Boyz to Big 'Uns and giving them the Spirit Totem (and even then you rarely see more than 24-25 Boyz in such units due to the 10pt+ / pop price).

Oh yeah, and I just realized something: One Big 'Un unit of each type (one unit of Boar Boy Big 'Uns, Savage Orc Big 'Uns, regular Boy Big 'Uns, and so on) can take a magic banner. Not each of that type. Normally this doesn't come up in that you will only have one Big 'Un unit of that type, but in Gorbad's list it does matter. So you can't have one Big 'Un unit with the Waaagh! Banner, and another the War Banner. You can have one of them, but not both. Furthermore, you can't have two War Banners in your list: Common Magic Items, even stuff like the 5pt Biting Blade, cannot be duplicated. The only exceptions to this are the Dispel Scrolls and Power Stones.

Considering one unit of your units has Choppas and the other two Shields, I'd suggest about 18-24 for the Two Choppa unit's size. The Shields, I want to say at least 20 would be a good bet but I realize that they're expensive (10pts a pop). WS4, S4(5), T4, 4+ save in hand-to-hand, they're not necessarily great, but they aren't bad either. Again, Nogs Banner of Butchery can become evil with them in certain formations (mainly due to keeping a 4+ save and - for one round - getting two S5 attacks apiece).

A good thing to realize with Orcs & Goblins is that, outside some good rolling or fighting another army's core choices, your specialists aren't going to do too hot. You're going to most likely win your combats with Orcs & Goblins via a combination of several factors: Heroes (The most reliable source for Orc wound-resolution), Combat Resolution (Specifically: Providing yourself with as much as possible while denying the enemy as much of theirs), and underhanded methods (Throwing Fanatics so that - in order to charge you - the enemy unit must land on a Fanatic. Sacrificing 80pt Fast Cavalry units to force the enemy into being flank-charged. Netting their units then casting Mork'll Fix It to essentially remove 40%+ of their wounds and 25-33% of their hits). Your regular Goblins, Boyz, and even Big 'Uns / Black Orcs - outside getting a charge with the tried and true six-wide front w/ two Choppas and a Spirit Totem - are unlikely to get more than a wound or three tops when fighting anything in the enemy's list that isn't labeled "Core". They just don't have the buffs naturally that the enemy does (Be it Hatred, a 5+ natural Ward, Regeneration, 3+ armor saves, or even just WS4+). You can't even rely on Black Orcs to do much other then not failing Animosity, having an armor save (when given shields), and sucking up points like a Forgeworld Unit.

For the Tournament, if playing to win, you're going to have about two units that - without magical buffs - have a chance at winning a combat on their own. Whichever Night Goblin unit has the Big Boss, and whichever unit (Orc or Goblin) has Gorbad in it. The other units in your army, including the above two non-hero factors (Static Combat Resolutions and Trickery), are probably going to work around winning / losing by about a one to three point margin. One reason you'll want bigger units is, if the enemy outnumbers you with a fear causing unit (See: Daemons, Undead, all Elves against your Goblins, several Chaos units), you're no longer using Leadership 10 w/ re-rolls for your leadership. You're now using Leadership 2 with re-rolls. The loss of eight points is a big one, especially when - otherwise - you would have lost combat only by one or two points.

Final thing to point out before suggestions: Black Orcs only quell animosity in the units they've attached now. They don't provide the 6" bubble any more.

For suggestions to your current list beyond the above semi-vague advice:
+ Remove the Banner of Butchery from Gorbad.
+ Remove the Power Stone from the Orc Shaman. For the most part, I'd say Waaagh! paint is better(ish). The first three Orc spells can all reliably be cast on two dice (even on the lower end of averages), and can possibly be cast on one. Waaagh! paint also involves throwing out less dice, and when you have the Miscast table that O&G's do, that's a good thing. Plus, 15pts spared.
+ Of the weapons you chose on the Night Goblin Big Boss, the One Hit Wunda is the best choice. I would, however, suggest either Martog's Best Basha or the Akrit Axe for them. The Axe overall is superior unless attacking rank and file (Most tourney army's specialists being at least WS5, meaning Martogs has no bonus to hit), but against low WS armies the Basha can be superior both due to a static +1 strength and from needing 3's to hit instead of 4. Martog's saves you more points, but it's either-or really.

+ Increase the average unit sizes. Again, general sizes I suggest are: 18-24 for Two Choppas, 20-25 for Shields (but 30 can work if you really want huge units), 24-30 for Night Goblins.
+ Netters in the Night Goblins. If you have no netters, it's fine, but Netters - on average (5/6 times) - increase the unit's durability by around 30% in close combat.
+ Remember that only one of the three Big 'Un units actually has a Magical Banner, the other two are standard. (Frees 50pts for elsewhere in the list).
+ Unless you really want the Champion, drop them in the Big 'Un units. While they're a steal for their price in a regular Orc Boy unit (+1 WS, S, and A), in Big 'Uns they're much less efficient for their point cost (+15pts for +1 Attack, where as for Boyz it's +5pts for +1 S, +5pts for +1 WS, and +5pts for +1 Attack). Maybe a Champion in Gorbad's unit to eat up a challenge and prevent Gorbad from suffering a wound, but that's it. (Frees 30pts for elsewhere in the list)

+ Remove the Boss from the Black Orcs. He's a lot of points for an additional attack and weapon skill point, which often times will not make that big a difference.

+ Do something with the trolls. Either drop the two regular trolls and bump the Stone Trolls up to a three big unit (still saving you 20pts), or drop the two regular trolls (freeing 80pts), or drop all the trolls (saving 200pts), just modify it right now. Two big troll units are six wounds, T4, WS3, and - even with Scaly Skin - usually only going to take about 12 hits to destroy, six hits to render useless (A lone troll cannot negate ranks, is unlikely to survive a charge as a screen, can barely beat a War Machine crew on its own with average dice rolls, and so on).