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I wanted to avoid the moniker "Ancient" as it seems to be tossed around quite a bit in Warhammer. Ancient Treeman, Ancient Stegadon, Ancient Badger... Further, what may seem ancient to pathetic humans and rat vermin is nothing to the long-lived Elves. Malekith is over five-thousand years old, more than aged enough to qualify as ancient by our terms! That being said, here's my attempt at a somewhat less-godlike legendary creature!

Dark Elf Army Book wrote:Beastmasters continually experiment with different breeding techniques and cast enchantments upon the Hydra's eggs to raise the ferocity of successive generations to new heights.

The War Hydra is a titanic monster, bred especially for their enormous size and ferocious temperament...

Beginning from its incubation, the monstrosity has been bathed in the dark enchantments of talented beastmasters. With this blessing, this Hydra has seen countless battles; it has devoured, crushed, burned and maimed more enemies of the Druchii than many of the army's most faithful commanders. Possessing nine brethren heads the Hydra is all but omniscient of its surroundings, ever on constant vigilance. The hydra's internal fire rages forth from its many mouths, incinerating any foes that dare stand near. Its fire burns with the winds of magic, piercing even the most powerful of arcane defenses.

Grievous wounds known to slay even the most resilient of its kin are regenerated, little more than discolored outlines of newly formed scales where mighty blows once struck. From centuries of wounds its hide has thickened and its mass increased to meet each challenge. Despite its preternatural regenerative abilities, fire remains anathema to its flesh. Though the thousands of battles in its wake are merely scars within its scales, the charred stump of a bare neck leaves evidence of one hero's attempt to take down the beast. Wounds caused by fire upon the battlefield are known to drive the elder hydra into an uncontrollable fury, rekindling the pain of its severed head.

Its three handlers are among the elite; masters without peer in the art of taming, or at least directing, feral might. Each have uncanny reflexes honed from centuries of handling the most deadly of the Druchii menagerie, their speed matched only by the precision of their strikes. It is not uncommon to witness one of them stunning the most mighty of creatures with a swift touch to a vital nerve; a touch that would stop the heart of a lesser creature.

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Elder Hydra - 600 points




Equipment: The Beastmasters are armed with a Beastmaster's scourge and a hand weapon.
Special Rules: Eternal Hatred; Titan; 2+ Scaly Skin; Horror; Large; Arcane Breath; Many Headed; True Regeneration; Elite Handlers

Titan: The Elder Hydra is immune to the Killing Blow USR. Wounds that would deal d6 are reduced to d3, wounds that would deal d3 are reduced to a single wound.

Horror: This battle-scarred beast instills fear into lesser terror-causing units, and terror into even lesser fear-causing units. Units that neither cause fear nor terror are subject to terror at a -2 leadership modification.

Arcane Breath: The strength of the Elder Hydra's breath weapon is one higher than its remaining wounds. For example, if it has four remaining wounds, its breath weapon is S5. The Elder Hydra's breath attack is considered magical. Further, the lacing of magic pierces arcane barriers, disallowing ward saves against its arcane breath.

Many-Headed: The Elder Hydra is ever vigilant upon the battle field, using its many heads to survey its surrounds at all times. The unit counts as a Skirmisher for all purposes. No combat bonuses are given for flanking or charging the rear of the Elder Hydra. It may unleash its breath weapon in any given direction. It may charge in any given direction. Further, it may use its breath weapon once per turn for each of its remaining wounds and it is not necessary to target the same enemy unit with each use. For example, should the Elder Hydra have four wounds remaining it may breathe upon its foe four times or divide the four in any direction it so chooses.

True Regeneration: The Elder Hydra is subject to the Regeneration USR. In addition to this, at the start of each of the controlling player's magic phases it may roll 1d6 for every wound currently removed from the Elder Hydra. On a roll of 5+, the wound is regenerated and added back to the Elder Hydra's remaining wounds. Wounds caused by flaming attacks may never be regenerated by True Regeneration.

Elite Handlers: The Elder Hydra is accompanied by three Elite Beastmasters. Each have the Always Strike First and Killing Blow USR. All creatures not normally subject to Killing Blow due to immunity granted by Unit Strength or Titan classification take a -1 penalty to hit the Elder Hydra and Elite Beastmasters in combat for each 'to wound' roll of 6 from the Elite Beastmasters. This can be applied to a maximum of the foe hitting the Elder Hydra and Elite Beastmasters on a roll of '6'. Their uncanny reflexes grant them a 4+ ward save in combat should they be able to be targeted. The Elite Beastmasters retain the Monster & Handlers special rule as detailed on page 58 of the Dark Elf army book.

Excellent, more Legendary goodness to read through! I will do so more thoroughly tomorrow, when my eyes are focusing correctly

Well done, Kirbinator. I really like it and the background is excellent. I am glad we are all agreeing on the "Titan" and "Horror" special rules. I was thinking that exact rule for true regeneration. I think it might be a little undercosted, but all hydras should be. I think what makes it undercosted are the 9 str4 ASF, KB, AP attacks from the handlers with 2 wounds a piece. I will look more closely when I get to a real computer and the book.

I agree the Elite Beastmasters are pretty awesome, but the Elder Hydra itself is not 425 points better than a standard War Hydra, much less being nearly the cost of four War Hydras. Being only T6 and W6 means that it is very vulnerable to being killed by a solid round of Legendary Battle shooting, especially if flaming cannons are involved.

Just as a note on the beastmasters, it's actually four attacks each due to three base and two hand weapons.

I like your hydra, if a bit overcosted. I don't know about the rest of you but I'm haveing a blast with this and am involving some people from my local forums.

I agree it is overcosted, it just does not come close to being worth nearly four standard War Hydras who clock in at 700. I would say in certain circumstances it could be comparable to a Bloodthirster, minus the wings, and he often comes in around 600.

Wow, he's going to be a "wound factory" with the regeneration and chance to recover them in the magic phase. Hard to put down...

"Stay dead! I mean it this time...!"

I'm not sure what to comment about the cost, it's one of the cheaper "Legendaries" posted up here, but still a beast... also, the normal hydra is not a great reference to compare to (for points cost purposes), since it's generally considered undercosted

Agreed that the War Hydra is often considered undercosted but most people agree only by about 25 points, feeling that 200 points is a fair number for it. That being said, do you feel the current incarnation of the Elder is worth three of them? I think that it can be in certain situations where his abilities really come to fruition. Like a Bloodthirster, if he is just axed down early in the game from shooting then it's likely that you'll feel it should be worth less points!

I think your elder hydra is one of the best legends we have here and the most realistic. I have to go back and tweak the Dwarf Battlearmor <----sounds better than battlesuit (its not 40k )

However this is how I break down or compare the cost of the elder hydra.

war hydra w/ 2 beastmasters (equivalent to 2 reavers so 2x20 = 40) is 175 so the hydra is only 135 of those points.

the elite beastmasters are close to masters, only the BS is different and not needed anyway, they also have KB, ASF, and AP. So that is like 240 points for those three leaving the hydra to only be 360 points. That would be like knocking another 15 points off of each regular war hydra to equal 3 of them. I would rather compare your elder hydra to a dragon at 320 points. Flight is better, but 16" of skirmishing movement isn't bad either. WS goes to the dragon, str to hydra, initiative and attacks to hydra, and Ld to dragon. I think the XL target is more of a hinderance, but the Titan and Horror rules make up for it. The hydra wins for AS, breath weapons, and that really cool regeneration. How many points better is the elder hydra than the dragon? I really don't know, I'd say 50 or so. So really it isn't that bad.

Now I need to brainstorm and get more options for the battlearmor and lower its stats and cost. I already think dragons, bloodthirsters, and special characters are pretty awesome, we just need to go a little over that.

I'm glad you like my Elder Hydra! The more I look at his numbers and abilities the more I think 600 is a fair number for him. Not unbeatable, but still pretty awesome and can lay down a good amount of pain for its points.

boogeyman wrote:I think the XL target is more of a hinderance, but the Titan and Horror rules make up for it.

Agreed, being XL hurts against mass pincushion and bolt throwers but the Titan and Horror rules are very much worth it to me.

I need to reword some of his rules since the grammar nazi in me is fussing over little uses of and/or and things of that nature. I really would like these to be usable rulesets and having word gaps does not help that mentality.

Should it be offered hard cover by a large target? That seems like more of a 40k rule (cover from other units of infantry that are at least half of a unit's height)

I'm actually thinking we should not have the XL size classification as a standard for Titan ruling, similar to a Baneblade being a Super Heavy and benefitting from construct points and the like but not being nearly as massive as Titan-class vehicles. This Elder Hydra, though bulkier than a War Hydra as evidenced in toughness and strength, is still not so significantly larger than a standard one as compared to a War Hydra vs. an Ogre-sized creature. I don't think it should move into a new classification of creature size. It's certainly no taller than your average dragon, for instance.

I do think that the other aspects of the Titan rule are befitting, though, specifically the anti-KB and multi-wound reduction.

I agree about that for certain creatures. Your elder hydra would just be a large taget, but due to its makeup still get some of the other legendary rules. The problem comes with creatures that are 2x the size of a giant. I am sure that is how the large target first came about. Some models are just bigger and badder than the others. Some of these legends are the same.

Hmm, good point! That's the kind of thing that needs working out... but I agree that the "extra large target" rules might not apply to all legendary creatures.

I also stole your "+2 to shooting modifiers" addendum to that rule... good idea

I cleaned up the wording on rules such as Elite Handlers and Many Headed. I've also removed the Extra Large aspect of my Titan rule and just added "Large" to the list of rules the beast encompasses.

Do you think I am missing anything? Do you think any of it is over/underpowered? Do you think this ruleset is ready to hit your table?

The elite handlers rule makes more sense now, I had trouble earlier but now I see what you mean about the -1 "To-Hit" penalty from their attacks.