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HQ 127

Shas'el
PR
MP
Targeting Array
2 Shield Drones
HW drone controller

Troops 190
Fire Warriors x9
Devil Fish w/ Disruption pods
SMS

Troops 200
Fire Warriors x10
Devil Fish w/ Disruption pods
SMS

Heavy Support 165
Hammerhead
Rail Gun
Burst Cannons
Multi Tracker
Disruption Pods

Heavy Support 165
Hammerhead
Rail Gun
Burst Cannons
Multi Tracker
Disruption Pods

Fast Attack 70
Piranha
Disruption Pods
Fusion Blaster

Fast Attack 70
Piranha
Disruption Pods
Fusion Blaster

Fast Attack 70
Piranha
Disruption Pods
Fusion Blaster

Elites 216
Crisis Suit x3
Team Leader
HW Drone controller
2 Shield drones
PR
MP
Multi Trackers

Elites 216
Crisis Suit x3
Team Leader
HW Drone controller
2 Shield drones
PR
MP
Multi Trackers

Any suggestions and or/comments are always welcome.

I've been reading and the common thing seems to just have 6 FW per fish, if I do that any ideas on what to spend the extra 70 points on?

With 70 additional points, you could clump up your piranha's into 2x2 formation or 1+1+2, by adding an additional piranha.

But, I'm afraid you have too many shiny toys & not enough troops. Two devilfish fire warrior squads (regardless of size, as FW's are so poor) is insufficient.

So 10 Kroot might be a good choice for the extra points (And I don't have a model for the 4th piranha) I also forgot to mention that I rarely play objectives with the dudes I play with.

No multi tracker for the Shas'el? Don't you want him to be able to fire both weapons?

Also you don't have any bonding knives? So when you go below 50% you can't regroup, remember that drones are part of the unit, not just wargear. So lose your 2 shield drones on the HQ and you'll need to do a morale check (on your LD9) and not be able to regroup if you fail.

I'd also tool up the Warfish more, MT so they can move and shoot everything, or move 12" and still shoot something? TA's on them too so you can pull off your 7 S5 shots at BS4?

Splitting your Piranhas into 3 squads one 1 each means they give up 6 kill points for them, which I am not a fan off (the drones become a squad and a kill point). I would run a minium of 3 and keep them as 1 squad, but that's just me. I also think 5 point targetting arrays on Piranhas are worth it... you don't want to miss that vital shot.

+1 for walkinglimbs advice I was about to type out all of that. the only other things to add are:

If you don't want to tool up the Devilfish then drop the SMS and keep them vanilla with DP.

Hammerheads could do with flechettes and/or target locks (flechettes more important).

You need at a bare minimum 3 railguns at 1500, preferably 4.

No pathfinders is an astonishing ommision Tau simply don't function without Pathfinders ALWAYS take at least 1 squad of them.

I agree mostly with flingitnow.
You should drop the devilfish from at least one of your Fire Warrior teams and use the Fish from a Pathfinder Squad.

Make your Piranha 2x1+2 or 1x3 and drop the Disruption Pods off half of the Piranha. You might also want to add Flachettes to your Piranha if you make one big squad. Very effective against most assaulters.

Railguns are not nessecary for every Tau list but if you plan to use them for anti tank then get Broadsides. Hammerheads are good at anti infintry but are awful at anti tank for their points.
I would drop a Hammerhead and either get some Broadsides or some more Piranha. To use Hammerheads for anti tank is again, usually a waste of points. I perfer the Piranha to the Broadsides so I would get them but then again I'm biased towards Piranha.

One unit of Kroot for objective holding etc... is a really good buy. In a forest they are incredibly durable for their points.

To mirror Walkinglimb and flingitnow you should either tool your Fish up more or drop the SMS.

Good luck extoling The Greater Good

I'd actually take DPs off al your Piranhas as you'll never use them. If you're not shooting you're getting a cover save from movement and if you're shooting you're within 6" let alone 12" so what is the use?

Kroot aren't great for objective holding even in a forest to many fast moving heavy flamer type weapons in the game and not very many forests on many gaming tables anyway.

Don't drop a hammerhead you are already hardpushed for horde control (ideally you should have 3 large blast templates at 1500). You need far more killy and more survivability.

^ On first turn Disruption Pods help it your out in the open. Later on it means that you don't lose your Piranha if you choose to hang back for a turn and it protects against the other elements of an opponents army.

Kroot are very good objective holders in my experiance, we do have 1-2 forests per table to use though IIRC. Your Milage May Very though.

Hammerheads are not an end all be all anti horde weapon, they are good but the advantages of added anti tank I think would justify the loss of one of them.

What lists are you usually playing? A Tau army is very versatile and you can tailor your list according to it. Like I have 2 2000 point lists, one for horde and one for MEQ.

I actually run 3 Hammerheads myself, I don't like the thought of my Broadsides getting tangled in combat (but then I wouldn't have that issue if I had Kroot (which I also don't use).

I agree you are missing marker lights, although I prefer the more expensive option of ML Stealth suits - when you use the range of the MLD and ML (rather than burst cannon range) then Stealth Suits become so much more survivable! As they are relentless you can move and use the ML too. Just a thought... either way you need some markerlights somewhere!

^ On first turn Disruption Pods help it your out in the open. Later on it means that you don't lose your Piranha if you choose to hang back for a turn and it protects against the other elements of an opponents army.

Deploy them in cover and keep them moving 13" per turn, if you want it to stay still just move it forward 7" and then back 7", job done.

Kroot are very good objective holders in my experiance, we do have 1-2 forests per table to use though IIRC. Your Milage May Very though.

In my experience there are only woods/forests on 1 in 4 boards. Even then T3 they are killed on 2+ with no save by heavy flamers which in most cases will be in range on turn 1 and in others will certainly be there no later than turn 2.

Hammerheads are not an end all be all anti horde weapon, they are good but the advantages of added anti tank I think would justify the loss of one of them.

I never said they were but they are the only horde control he has in this army so he can't afford to lose them. Plusif he took one away what would be the point in keeping 1 Hammerhead? It would die turn 1 every single time as you've no duel threat or redundancy. He should get some broadsides but not at the expense of the Hammerheads.

FlingitNow wrote:
Deploy them in cover and keep them moving 13" per turn, if you want it to stay still just move it forward 7" and then back 7", job done.

Is that legal? It's it like the turbo boost rule? Where you must travel at least 12" from your original position.

Also you have to consider that there may be spread out enemies. You most 24" to one of them, great, next turn you fire at it... but face return fire from the other side of their deployment zone.

Not saying I don't see your point, it's just if I had the points I'd take them.

Is that legal? It's it like the turbo boost rule? Where you must travel at least 12" from your original position.

No such restriction for flatout skimmers, the rules even state you can move forward and backwards if you want. I think the reason there isn;t a restriction is because there is a down side to moving flatout unlike for bikes, however in a squad that becomes a non-issue as immobilised destroys you anyway .

I'm not saying that you would never ever use them, but it would be a pretty rare occurance and to be honest i'd rather spend the points on something I'm definitely going to use most (if not all) games, or something that I'll use every turn like a TA for my commander or something that can be a life saver in 1:3 games like blacksun filters on my Hammerheads.

If you've already spent points on all those and still have points left over for DPs on the Piranha then you've built your list wrong. I would honestly never take them.

^ On first turn Disruption Pods help it your out in the open. Later on it means that you don't lose your Piranha if you choose to hang back for a turn and it protects against the other elements of an opponents army.

Deploy them in cover and keep them moving 13" per turn, if you want it to stay still just move it forward 7" and then back 7", job done.

If he were to Boost every turn then then Piranha he got become little more than roadblocks. They can do that role well but Piranha with Fusion Blasters are more effective anti tank then Hammerheads and can be more effecient then Broadsides. It's 5 points to double the durability of 2 Piranha in a squadron from all enemy fire 12'' out. It's really helpfull. Not to mention that you can't always deploy them in cover.

In my experience there are only woods/forests on 1 in 4 boards. Even then T3 they are killed on 2+ with no save by heavy flamers which in most cases will be in range on turn 1 and in others will certainly be there no later than turn 2.

Your milage with Kroot will definitly vary. Around here I haven't encountered too many flamers, if oppoonents use excessive numbers of cover ignoring weapons then they bocome less usefull.
That being said, Kroot are essentially Boyz that can outflank, infiltrate and essentially become bolter marines in forests (terminators saves if they go to ground). If cover doesn't work due to Flamers and the like then I suggest infiltrating behined Los blocking cover or Outflanking.

Hammerheads are not an end all be all anti horde weapon, they are good but the advantages of added anti tank I think would justify the loss of one of them.

I never said they were but they are the only horde control he has in this army so he can't afford to lose them. Plusif he took one away what would be the point in keeping 1 Hammerhead? It would die turn 1 every single time as you've no duel threat or redundancy. He should get some broadsides but not at the expense of the Hammerheads.

You're right I hadden't noticed that. At this point he shouldn't take out any Hammerheads without replacement anti horde. He still needs more anti tank so something I've used (and still use) is Tl Flamer Fusion Blaster Crisis Suits. Not something you can just use whilly nilly but one turn of firing from a squad of 3 at BS5 from markerlights is equal to 5-6 turns of Hammerhead Fire. It's much harder to use properly but with pathfinders for markerlights, and DS re rolls, and Piranha to block assaults after they fire with themselves/drones, they are quite usable. Flamers are for anti horde. To field them you could take out a hammerhead or one of your Fire Knife teams. I don't find Fire Knives very points effective compared to other options so my suggestion is to take them out. You can get 4 for a team of Fire Knives with 16 points left over.

Thanks for all the help guys, and I usually play vs CSM and SM.

I'd be very tempted to run to Ionheads + 3 broadsides then... Ion cannons chew through power armour

Personally, I'm not one to rate RailHeads. Though I don't like to reference cross codex, a Griffon mortar does the same job for half the price. To me, the cost just seems hard to justify. I would opt for Broadsides in conjunction with other alterations in the list.

Kroot would be one thing that I would advise.

If he were to Boost every turn then then Piranha he got become little more than roadblocks. They can do that role well but Piranha with Fusion Blasters are more effective anti tank then Hammerheads and can be more effecient then Broadsides. It's 5 points to double the durability of 2 Piranha in a squadron from all enemy fire 12'' out. It's really helpfull. Not to mention that you can't always deploy them in cover.

You should be able to deploy them in cover if the table has the recomeded amount of cover. Yeah it's 5 points but it doesn't double their durability. It doubles their durability from enemy fire from more than 12" on any turn they are shooting (so will be within 6" of the enemy). So yes it might give you a cover save once every 3-4 games at most I'd rather take something that I'm going to either use more often or is going to have a more profound effect when i am using it (i.e. blacksun filter, targetting arrays for suits, bonding knives etc).

Your milage with Kroot will definitly vary. Around here I haven't encountered too many flamers, if oppoonents use excessive numbers of cover ignoring weapons then they bocome less usefull.
That being said, Kroot are essentially Boyz that can outflank, infiltrate and essentially become bolter marines in forests (terminators saves if they go to ground). If cover doesn't work due to Flamers and the like then I suggest infiltrating behined Los blocking cover or Outflanking.

Around here every takes some template weapons mostly on fast movers (HF/MM Landspeeders are very popular for instance). IG basically ignore terrain with seemingly every weapon these days and with Baal predators now you really have no where to hide those Kroot. Yes you can still out flank them and they are good for capture and control missions used in that way or good for counter charging the enemy when he makes it to your lines and obviously good for a meat shield when castling (though I foolish opponent tried that against my Marine army last night and it didn't stop me taking out up a Hammerhead and a crisis team in CC on turn 1 ). But 10 kroot on their own is a waste of time and points.

You're right I hadden't noticed that. At this point he shouldn't take out any Hammerheads without replacement anti horde. He still needs more anti tank so something I've used (and still use) is Tl Flamer Fusion Blaster Crisis Suits. Not something you can just use whilly nilly but one turn of firing from a squad of 3 at BS5 from markerlights is equal to 5-6 turns of Hammerhead Fire. It's much harder to use properly but with pathfinders for markerlights, and DS re rolls, and Piranha to block assaults after they fire with themselves/drones, they are quite usable. Flamers are for anti horde. To field them you could take out a hammerhead or one of your Fire Knife teams. I don't find Fire Knives very points effective compared to other options so my suggestion is to take them out. You can get 4 for a team of Fire Knives with 16 points left over.

Broadsides are slow, easier to assault and easier to blow up with stuff like lascannons (a Lascannon HIT has only a 5.5% chance of taking out a Hammerhead). Yes they are better at AT than Hammerheads, but Hammerheads are still one of the best Tanks in the game for dealing with armour. They are also the only thing in this list that is good anti-horde as I said. However given his opponents possibly they could go.

If you're against MEQ Fireknives are the best load out and I'd spam those with maybe a helios in each squad to ensure you can abuse wound aollocation and ensure maximum TEQ/MEQ killing once you've popped the transports.

Not really convinced in the slow moving Broadsides against what is probably the fastest assault army in the game (SM who can if they want literally assault you with their entire army in turn 1).

If he were to Boost every turn then then Piranha he got become little more than roadblocks. They can do that role well but Piranha with Fusion Blasters are more effective anti tank then Hammerheads and can be more effecient then Broadsides. It's 5 points to double the durability of 2 Piranha in a squadron from all enemy fire 12'' out. It's really helpfull. Not to mention that you can't always deploy them in cover.

You should be able to deploy them in cover if the table has the recomeded amount of cover. Yeah it's 5 points but it doesn't double their durability. It doubles their durability from enemy fire from more than 12" on any turn they are shooting (so will be within 6" of the enemy). So yes it might give you a cover save once every 3-4 games at most I'd rather take something that I'm going to either use more often or is going to have a more profound effect when i am using it (i.e. blacksun filter, targetting arrays for suits, bonding knives etc).

From my experience Piranha get plenty of saves from those Disruption pods. Especially since they are not running straight into the enemy alone. My whole Tau army (minus pathfinders and occasionally some Kroot) is designed to rush forwards and wipe out individual pockets so shooting back from within 12'' is reduced and it REALLY helps agains fire from the rest of their army.
The usefullness of the upgrade is somewhat dependant on your playstyle but for 5 points for two Piranha I think it's worth it even with a laid back style. It's almost no points for a huge (but Situational) advantage.

Broadsides are slow, easier to assault and easier to blow up with stuff like lascannons (a Lascannon HIT has only a 5.5% chance of taking out a Hammerhead). Yes they are better at AT than Hammerheads, but Hammerheads are still one of the best Tanks in the game for dealing with armour. They are also the only thing in this list that is good anti-horde as I said. However given his opponents possibly they could go.

I agree that broadsides are not as survivable as Hammerheads. I really don't like either to be perfectly honest. Broadsides have more anti tank but are still lacking in my opinion for their cost (at least compared to Melta) and Hammerheads are more survivable but very vulnerable to melta and their anti tank is really poor for their cost. My anti tank is filled almost fully by melta, on Crisis suits and on Piranha. I rely heavely on Piranha for mobile cover and assault/movement blocking and a good deal of anti tank. For me this means those Disrupton pods are REALLY useful. I suggested Broadsides because they have more anti tank then Hammerheads and I don't think that I could readily advise others to use my tactics as it is just so counter to what is normally expected by and from a Tau player. Furthermore I just can't really bring myself to suggest Hammerheads for any respectible amount of Anti Tank as there is the little voice in the back of my head going, "Don't get Hammerheads! If you want Anti Tank ONE turn of crisis melta fire (with markerlights) is better than an entire GAME of Hammerhead fire!"

This list really needs more anti tank, weather that means adding Broadsides or Crisis Suits/Prianha with Melta, something needs to give. I think the Hammerheads could stay if he was to take out some of his Fire Knives and add in some TL Fusion Blaster / Flamer Crisis Suits, (or Perferrably Tl Flamer / Fusion Blaster suits with markerlight support for better anti tank and 50% more anti horde) Piranha also do the trick more reliably. Hammerheads are good anti tank and can stay for that and some emergency anti tank, I don't really have an issue with them as long as more anti tank comes from somewhere. Best thing for this is to oust FireKnives (better against AV 11- and MEQ/TEQ) or Hammerheads (better against AV12+ and infantry with 4+ saves or worse). For me it's one or the other. (the only other option I can really see would be to reduce the Fire Warriors to 6 man squads but as he already has Devilfish they make some really mean anti infantry with a well placed FOF)

EDIT: against marines I would definitly take out the Hamerhead(s) as Fire Knives are a much better weapon against MEQ targets.

Wakinglimb wrote:I'd be very tempted to run to Ionheads + 3 broadsides then... Ion cannons chew through power armour

In the Cover Save heavy environment of 5e, really?


Also, you posted earlier in the thread that an Shas needs a BK to rally if it takes drones, and looses them. As far as I can tell, it doesn't. The Next-to-Last bullet item on page 48 only mentions not being to leave a unit that is Falling Back. So, once alone, the IC rule kicks in and the Shas'el can rally. Unless someone can point out something concrete rulewise?

In the "You make da call" ...
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/288732.page

"Deploy them in cover and keep them moving 13" per turn, if you want it to stay still just move it forward 7" and then back 7", job done. "

Can I have a page number in the Rule Book for that please? That would help me a lot. We've just always played it as from your original start spot in my gaming group.

Can I have a page number in the Rule Book for that please? That would help me a lot. We've just always played it as from your original start spot in my gaming group.

BRB pg 57:

"Vehicles can turn any number of times as they move just like any other model. Vehicles turn by pivotin on the about their centre-point, rather than 'wheeling around' aroun. Turning does not reduce the vehicle's move. This means that a vehicle may combine forward and reverse movement in the same turn providing it does not exceed its maximum move"

Stress mine.

pg70 Fast Vehicles

"Fast vehicles are capable of a third level of speed, called 'flat out'. A fast vehicle going flat out moves more than 12" ..."

pg71 Skimmers

"A skimmer that is not immobilised and has moved flat out in its last movement phase counts as obscured (cover save of 4+) when fired at."

Notice how none of these make mention of having to count the distance from your starting point to your end point.

If you beleive I can't do this you have to find a rule preventing me. Moving forward and backward is a clearly legitimate move. Moving more than 12" is a flat out move and for that I get a 4+ cover save.

Where the confusion arises is that the Bike Turboboost rule works differently because bikes don't get a disadvantage for turboboosting (like skimmers do as immobilised = wrecked). Hence their rule works slightly differentl;y making the requirement you are talking about. If you beleive otherwise please post the rules that state a flat out skimmer has to measure it's move from it's start to point to its end point as a straight line to count as having moved flat out.

I don't disagree with you Fling, I was just hoping for a page number, because that's nifty as heck to know. Thanks!

Please note that this does not help with assaults if you move forward 7" and back 7" you will count as stationary for the purposes of assault.

Hido wrote:So 10 Kroot might be a good choice for the extra points.

Um... Great discussion here. Just add in one little point. 10 Kroots is no way a "good" choice. Never fill them in for the extra points, unless you already have a swarm of them. What I mean with "swarm" at least one full squad (size=19) of Kroots with Shaper. Many people playing Tau around have a common misunderstanding that Kroots are meat shield for other shooty units in the field, and ultimate expendable. But the truth hurts; once in range of 24'', these no-cover-save no-shaper-upgrade Kroots wouldn't even stand to see the dawn of next turn. If you wanna use Kroots, use them seriously and wisely, with shaper attached and bring several pieces of forest terrain with you in case the table you play doesn't have it. Else it doesn't make any differences to your opponent; you are just throwing these life-changing extra points into the water.

And I don't see any reason behind taking ion cannon on hammerhead. Seriously who care about the Heavy3 with railgun's large blast marker? Anybody explain the idea to me?

I just briefly skimmed...

If your not playing objectives...

you might wanna group your piranhas to give up less kill points, and just give 1or 2 target locks to you have the option of engaging multiple targets... also if you group them they follow squadron rules so if you give all 3 flechettes, enemy attacks 1 prianha in the squad, all 3 flechettes go off..and its against each model directly..so it has the ability to single out power weapon/chain fist guys w/o them being able to wound wrap it to the rest of the squad.. its handy..

And the drones...someone said if you lose the drones and fail moral you wont be able to regroup, this is a load of ******** as it clearly states in the codex that drones do not count for the 50% regroup.

oh, Kroot shaper = a waste! if you really want to beef up the kroot, just buy hounds for them. anything you have a chance of winning assault with the hounds will go first...then take casualties on the hounds when the enemy swings so all your kroot get their attacks...also..you might wanna think about the maths in your head before assaulting..alot of times its actually more beneficial to just move up 1'' away rapid fire, and let them assault you if you have very poor odds of holding the line..

Um... Great discussion here. Just add in one little point. 10 Kroots is no way a "good" choice. Never fill them in for the extra points, unless you already have a swarm of them. What I mean with "swarm" at least one full squad (size=19) of Kroots with Shaper. Many people playing Tau around have a common misunderstanding that Kroots are meat shield for other shooty units in the field, and ultimate expendable. But the truth hurts; once in range of 24'', these no-cover-save no-shaper-upgrade Kroots wouldn't even stand to see the dawn of next turn. If you wanna use Kroots, use them seriously and wisely, with shaper attached and bring several pieces of forest terrain with you in case the table you play doesn't have it. Else it doesn't make any differences to your opponent; you are just throwing these life-changing extra points into the water.

Never get the shaper ever he's entirely pointless and just a way of throughing points down the drain. You can't always expect forests to be part of the table you;re playing on and if you're reliant on the forest cover save then you opponent is dumb (why shoot kroot from a distance when you can just heavy flame them).

Kroot in units of 10 can be great for castling as a meat shield. So they die straight away? So will your unit of 20 with a shaper just my shield costs less than half the points. They're not there to stand against shooting they are there to prevent turn 1 assaults reaching your more expensive units. Otherwise you have to deploy everything in reserve which causes its own porblems.

Okay Fling we are thinking entirely different ways of using Kroots. You promote meat shield tactic. I promote swarm "counter"-charge + bait. Not comparable.

I think we all agree Kroots is expendable; so the differences here is how you expend them. You use them as passive defence, thinking they will die out anyway so just use them as sponge to absorb some initial incoming. But the thing you miss out is that this sponge's volume (talking about 10 Kroots here) is nowhere near to satisfy enemy firepower, not even for one turn. Ordance barrage or blast weapon just wipe them out too easy, and chance to wipe out the units that Kroots are meat-shielding too. Turn 1 assault? Deep strike units or what? if it's as what I guessed, then where is Tau's mobility? I seldom see FW not companied with Devilfish. And though I never do it too, but what's the problem with everything in reserve.

Anyway my way of using Kroots is just expending them with their FULL potential. IMO the biggest threat to Kroots is their weak shooting and zero-resistance to long-range blast marker weapons. And the solution is as clear as crystal to me: engage in HtH combat as fast as you managed to. There you got it: infiltrate rule. Avoid incoming overhead or from afar and push their HtH combat ability to the maximum, with their number and at least 6+ armor save better than none.

And as you said, forests are not always the case, so it's not in discussion list; if you can heavy flame, then the sheer number of Kroots and the formation they are in would be the most important for them to survive and assault the next turn. And who says you always got to be the first to heavy flame

ryanstartalker wrote:Okay Fling we are thinking entirely different ways of using Kroots. You promote meat shield tactic. I promote swarm "counter"-charge + bait. Not comparable.

I think we all agree Kroots is expendable; so the differences here is how you expend them. You use them as passive defence, thinking they will die out anyway so just use them as sponge to absorb some initial incoming. But the thing you miss out is that this sponge's volume (talking about 10 Kroots here) is nowhere near to satisfy enemy firepower, not even for one turn. Ordance barrage or blast weapon just wipe them out too easy, and chance to wipe out the units that Kroots are meat-shielding too. Turn 1 assault? Deep strike units or what? if it's as what I guessed, then where is Tau's mobility? I seldom see FW not companied with Devilfish. And though I never do it too, but what's the problem with everything in reserve.

Anyway my way of using Kroots is just expending them with their FULL potential. IMO the biggest threat to Kroots is their weak shooting and zero-resistance to long-range blast marker weapons. And the solution is as clear as crystal to me: engage in HtH combat as fast as you managed to. There you got it: infiltrate rule. Avoid incoming overhead or from afar and push their HtH combat ability to the maximum, with their number and at least 6+ armor save better than none.

And as you said, forests are not always the case, so it's not in discussion list; if you can heavy flame, then the sheer number of Kroots and the formation they are in would be the most important for them to survive and assault the next turn. And who says you always got to be the first to heavy flame

19 kroot + shaper + 10 hounds + 6+ saves for kroot = 234 points

2 squads of 10 kroot = 140 points

net saving 94 points, which can be spent elsewhere...aka another rail gun? another suit? better load out on suits? etc etc

your kroot shaper squad will not stand up Point for Point against pretty much anything except for IG, but you could of just ran 10kroot into a squad of IG and had essentially the same effect without the huge point sink.

Tau shoot, they do not CC well. Kroot are there for speed bumps and the occasional CC.

If you want to i can completely back up this theory on vassal (not being a dick) you can run your army w/ your big squads of kroot, and ill run mine w/ the 1-2 squads of 10 i usually pull out..