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What is the IG Leaf blower list?????

In 2500 points, your enemy is likely to be crammed into their deployment zone.

In 2500 points, IG can take a lot of long range anti tank and blast weapons.

If you go first with 2500 points of long range anti tank blast IG, you can cripple the enemy army without much difficulty.

The Leaf Blower became "internet famous" because the person using it at Ard Boyz went first every game and won.

If the Leaf Blower does not go first, it is vastly less effective.

thank you

ph34r wrote:If the Leaf Blower does not go first, it is vastly less effective.

It can still win, though, just takes skill.

Head over to BoLS and look it up there. Its a nasty, nasty list.

Here is all the information you need.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/09/40k-ard-boys-armylist-leafblower.html

em_en_oh_pee wrote:

ph34r wrote:If the Leaf Blower does not go first, it is vastly less effective.

It can still win, though, just takes skill.

Head over to BoLS and look it up there. Its a nasty, nasty list.

Indeed, IG mech is overall good, especially at 2500. But it is a lot worse if it doesn't go first.

ph34r wrote:

em_en_oh_pee wrote:

ph34r wrote:If the Leaf Blower does not go first, it is vastly less effective.

It can still win, though, just takes skill.

Head over to BoLS and look it up there. Its a nasty, nasty list.

Indeed, IG mech is overall good, especially at 2500. But it is a lot worse if it doesn't go first.

Yea, but still rock hard.

...but I am very biased, so just ignore me.

Unless codexes are value balanced, a higher point limit allows a greater amount of imbalance.

ph34r wrote:In 2500 points, your enemy is likely to be crammed into their deployment zone.

In 2500 points, IG can take a lot of long range anti tank and blast weapons.

If you go first with 2500 points of long range anti tank blast IG, you can cripple the enemy army without much difficulty.

The Leaf Blower became "internet famous" because the person using it at Ard Boyz went first every game and won.

If the Leaf Blower does not go first, it is vastly less effective.

Going first does not matter for this list. Sorry and I didn't go first in every game at ard boys or every game in Gladiator.

ph34r wrote:

The Leaf Blower became "internet famous" because the person using it at Ard Boyz went first every game and won.

And gladiator...
And adepticon Champs...(except the infamous filmed last round)

It doesnt really need to go first but it sure helps to get first turn in like 10/11 of your games not including the semis.

Nick I have often heard you went first every game in the Ard Boyz last year.

G

This list would get eaten alive by a drop pod list IF IG could not take the unbalanced Inquisitor with two mystics. It's all about putting the hurt on before the range gap closes. A fast army that goes first has a better chance than most, but until the Inq/mystics combo is changed then IG will be #1 overall.

Darkwynn wrote:

Going first does not matter for this list. Sorry and I didn't go first in every game at ard boys or every game in Gladiator.

Didn't you explain in your BoLS blog that you went first in every game at Hard Boyz?

his list would get eaten alive by a drop pod list IF IG could not take the unbalanced Inquisitor with two mystics.

Drop pods aren't *that* effective. They are nice and useful, but keep in mind it also keeps those units hamstrung in perfect rapid fire/template/assault weapon range, often with little or no cover, and typically bunched up deliciously for blast weapons. I haven't found DP's to really be the bane of my IG, rather huge numbers of tac squads/GH's/etc in rhino's, with maybe a couple pods delivering dreads.

Black Blow Fly wrote:Nick I have often heard you went first every game in the Ard Boyz last year.

G

only went first in my last three games at finals. That was it otherwise I didn't go first at all.

in Championships I didn't go first any of the games even with the tarot and same with gladiator. People just like to assume.

yes, I said last round of Ard Boys I went first and it was great but to say the list needs to go first to win is just ignorance.

Darkwynn wrote:Going first does not matter for this list. Sorry and I didn't go first in every game at ard boys or every game in Gladiator.

From what I've seen of your list, going first is just a bonus. There's enough mobile, versatile firepower to move around if you take a first-turn whomping from a Tau Railgun-heavy army or another alpha-strike list.

I'd love to fight against a list like this with my Ninja Tau, eight-Railgin XV8-heavy list. I think you'd win, but I think I'd give a pretty good fight...

Darkwynn wrote:

Black Blow Fly wrote:Nick I have often heard you went first every game in the Ard Boyz last year.

G

only went first in my last three games at finals. That was it otherwise I didn't go first at all.

in Championships I didn't go first any of the games even with the tarot and same with gladiator. People just like to assume.

yes, I said last round of Ard Boys I went first and it was great but to say the list needs to go first to win is just ignorance.

It is, however, also ignorance to say that the list can't be beaten, or is broken/overpowered, or destroys the game, or is the "best" list out there, etc.

Not that YOU'VE said that (<3), but the # of people out there proliferating such absurdity is overwhelming at times.

It's a good list, it can take all comers, it needs a good general at the helm. Darkwynn is a good general, his list is just a list.

I'd assume that the only real defense would be to spread out as best you can. I think that the outflanking baal and perhaps (I said PERHAPS!) scatter laser walkers would be the most effective way of neutralizing this short of tragically bad rolling on the IG players part.

I'm sure I'll fight it with my SW's so my only defense is to go as far as I can as fast as I can.

IT is not invincible, but it is extremely frustrating to play against and overall doesn't make 40K very fun.

I typically, in a 3 game tournament, will have to face this list at least once if not twice, since it is so popular. I am willing to bet you will see it at ard boys in droves this year.

The way around it is to outflank. The double mystic is nice, but for the most part, people are playing it wrong. The IG players want to interpret the rule as to where the mystics allow thier tanks to blast you out of the sky.

But in reality, they have to have LOS on whatever they choose to shoot you with. The best thing you can do is deep strike next to something that will block LOS and hope for the best.

I find that outflanking genestealers can really wreak havoc on this army.

Funny how things change... errrrmmm... how our memory often plays tricks on us...

G

LucasLAD wrote:I'd assume that the only real defense would be to spread out as best you can. I think that the outflanking baal and perhaps (I said PERHAPS!) scatter laser walkers would be the most effective way of neutralizing this short of tragically bad rolling on the IG players part.

I'm sure I'll fight it with my SW's so my only defense is to go as far as I can as fast as I can.

I'm not a /pro/ at this, but from what i understand, here's your problem.

If you are playing 2500 on a 6x4 board, you really can't spread out much
if you reserve the whole army, your opponent is only fighting a fraction of it at the same time with his /entire/ army

drop pods, stormravens, ect. seem like the way to do the job, until you realize that when they get out of the transport they are one S10AP2 blast away from being obliterated. unless they ran from the transport to spread out, and then you'd need

real solution: large amount of outflankers Blood angels+GK with scout/outflanking storm ravens /might/ get the job done. as terrible as they are, vanguard vets may be able to deep strike and multi assault a group of vehicles and pop a good number of long range firepower too (but will unlikely pay for themselves)

if the GK codex is coming next it'll probably undo the mystic thing and make the list vulnerable to deep strikers

gannam wrote:

I find that outflanking genestealers can really wreak havoc on this army.

That's why there's an officer of the Fleet to delay reserves and force opponents to reroll what side they come in on, in addition to lots of hull mounted heavy flamers on tanks

The army is not invincible, and could very well be made even scarier, but it's not something most 40k players have any experience with and mechanized IG in general are at such an extreme in terms of playstyle from most other armies that countering them is difficult. What do you do when an enemy has more tanks and dudes than you, more heavy weapons than you have models, and all your killy CC stuff is wasted points because it's so overkill and you end up hamstrung in front of the guns all too often. There are definite ways of beating mechanized Imperial Guard, but they are radically different from the tactics that work so well against armies like SM and Eldar with half as many vehicles that usually like to be in close range firefights and assaults with the need for heavy CC equipment that is just wasted against IG armies.

Vaktathi wrote:

gannam wrote:

I find that outflanking genestealers can really wreak havoc on this army.

That's why there's an officer of the Fleet to delay reserves and force opponents to reroll what side they come in on, in addition to lots of hull mounted heavy flamers on tanks

I'm not being a defeatist or intentionally being a prick but why would I even attempt to play a game against this list then? In every thread that has mentioned the Leafblower list someone has posted a counter, then anywhere from 5 to 1029301293012930912 people post why that won't work and all the counters.

I'd like to see a viable counter to this list other than, "Oh it can be beaten, it's just hard."

The thing that can do well against this list is just a rhino rush if played smart and driving enough bodies down the throat. Its risky and its hard but it can be done. It will be a close game in most situations.

Other counter would be Blood angels deep striking 4 land raiders...

Outflankers and most deep striking armies won't affect it because army reserves and you really have nothing you can do. I works with the Land raiders because you can deploy them in the middle of the board and you are at the lines already.


You can come up with counters but the problem is those counter list have a hard time defeating a lot of other things.

Other reason why people fail or think its easy to beat is that they clump up and create a parking lot in their deployment zone which hurts you more then anything.

When someone hits your lines and they can assault multiple tanks you will just die. You need room to create a break out and move away. One reason why out flankers don't work because you will be separated out from the force.

I'm not being a defeatist or intentionally being a prick but why would I even attempt to play a game against this list then? In every thread that has mentioned the Leafblower list someone has posted a counter, then anywhere from 5 to 1029301293012930912 people post why that won't work and all the counters.

I'd like to see a viable counter to this list other than, "Oh it can be beaten, it's just hard."

With nids? Personally, I don't know. In my 8 or so games against the new book so far with mechanized IG and Chaos Space Marines, I've massacred them every time, my first two games I didn't even take so much as a single glancing hit or lose a single guardsmen. New nids seem to be really awkward.

Darkwynn wrote:The thing that can do well against this list is just a rhino rush if played smart and driving enough bodies down the throat. Its risky and its hard but it can be done. It will be a close game in most situations.

This. Personally, I can't think of anything that scares my mech IG armies more than 8 rhinos driving forward full of marines. It's one thing to deal with big scary things that go down to a couple meltas or a couple units worth of rapid fire plasma guns or a battlecannon shot, it's another to deal with a huge horde of dudes, each of which can potentially kill any unit in my army.

Loving the fact the idea of skill is tossed around this thread.

Maybe they are referring to their google skills to find the list to copy?

Vaktathi wrote:

I'm not being a defeatist or intentionally being a prick but why would I even attempt to play a game against this list then? In every thread that has mentioned the Leafblower list someone has posted a counter, then anywhere from 5 to 1029301293012930912 people post why that won't work and all the counters.

I'd like to see a viable counter to this list other than, "Oh it can be beaten, it's just hard."

With nids? Personally, I don't know. In my 8 or so games against the new book so far with mechanized IG and Chaos Space Marines, I've massacred them every time, my first two games I didn't even take so much as a single glancing hit or lose a single guardsmen. New nids seem to be really awkward.

Nids don't really have much they can do against Guard. With so much shooting and no Armour to really block or ignore even the smallest shots its hard for them to deal with. Think the list of nids that would do great against IG is three trygons or a decent list of deep strikers that can overload a flank deploy away from plasam guns and push through the side. You need to overload the shooting to where they can't break you down.

As I understand it Darkwynn is the player on BoLS (don't know his screen name there) who invented the list and used it last summer. So he did not just copy it.

If you read his articles on the list on BoLS, after using it for one event he gave it up because it was too strong against too many opponents to make the game fun for them.

Which is a very mature attitude IMO.

As for there being plenty of ways to beat it, I am not a great player so I don't know. I will say that being the list is nearly a year old, people have had time and a couple of new codexes to come up with counters.

Most new codexes contain one or two strong extreme builds which are quickly spotted by good players and have a couple of months supremacy before people work out how to deal with them.

The strength of any list must be judged in view of its all-round ability not just its ability to counter one particular opposing list.

Also the dynamic of the game changes radically depending on the points level. This list depends partly on there being a target rich environment in order to maximise the utility of its blast weapons.

I played against it and he wiped out half of my army first turn.

I play Grey Knights...I took a Melta Torpedo Strike.

Chimeras started dying quickly.

It was fun.

Tie game.

Kilkrazy wrote:As I understand it Darkwynn is the player on BoLS (don't know his screen name there) who invented the list and used it last summer. So he did not just copy it.

If you read his articles on the list on BoLS, after using it for one event he gave it up because it was too strong against too many opponents to make the game fun for them.

Which is a very mature attitude IMO.

I understand he invented the list and I give him mad props for doing what he did but I was talking about all the others that have been copying it.

I read the article and honestly it sounds very pretentious and he stated he was going to use it for one more tournament. But that's whatever my hopes are that GW remakes the Witchunters and Deamonhunters Codex and removes the allies crap. If you want Allies, play a team games IMO

General_Chaos wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:As I understand it Darkwynn is the player on BoLS (don't know his screen name there) who invented the list and used it last summer. So he did not just copy it.

If you read his articles on the list on BoLS, after using it for one event he gave it up because it was too strong against too many opponents to make the game fun for them.

Which is a very mature attitude IMO.

I understand he invented the list and I give him mad props for doing what he did but I was talking about all the others that have been copying it.

I read the article and honestly it sounds very pretentious and he stated he was going to use it for one more tournament. But that's whatever my hopes are that GW remakes the Witchunters and Deamonhunters Codex and removes the allies crap. If you want Allies, play a team games IMO

Indeed...it's sad to see all these guard list with a single inquisitor, two mystics, and an old school psychic hood. They have a decently working codex as it is. I sincerely hope Grey Knights are their own codex with the possible exception of accepting SoB.