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Hey, I am starting to see the finish-line with my Tau Fan-dex and have had some long standing ideas about the Eldar.

I am going to post the ideas unit by unit for everyone to discuss and to propose what they would like to see for that particular unit.

I ask that the posters do not jump ahead on the units or post long wishlists. This thread is about finding what you dakkites feel is the essence of the Eldar through a unit by unit discussion.


The First unit is the Wraithlord:

While effective, I feel the current version doesn't reflect the Eldar personality enough. These are constructs powered by the greatest warriors but can only be kitted out as a mediocre ranged(BS4 &limited # of shots) unit or a mediocre Assault(Limited/low number of attacks) unit. While converting some old metal wraithlords I had the idea of Aspect themed Wraithlords..

Wraithlords have the choice of purchasing preset weapons and abilities that are based according to Aspect. They would Wraithlords alter their physical structure to match each aspect. I will start with the aspects that still have pheonix lords, which while fun to think about are mainly just for concept. The the last three proposed units are the ones I think could go into the next codex.
The first 5 "conceptual" Lords go something like this:

Avenger Lords- Would be able to purchase 2 Twin-linked Shuriken Cannons, A Dire Wraith Sword, a Wraith Shield(5+ inv save), and The Bladstorm & Defend abilities. Avenger Lords are Fleet but are strength 7 and toughness 7 due to adaptation to aspect.

Banshee Lord- Would be able to purchase 2 Twin-linked Shuriken catapults, Dual Mirrorswords that increase base attacks to 4, Banshee Mask(still working on its abilities), and the War Shout & Acrobatic abilities. Because the Banshee Lord is lighter and has a lighter weapon load out it has the fleet rule, but its strength is 7 and its toughness is 7.

Dragon Lord- Would be able to purchase Twin Dragon Pikes(would fire as one weapon Range 18" S 8 AP 1 Assault 2, melta), Twin-linked Dragons breath Flamer, and the Crack Shot & Tank Hunter abilities. The Dragon Lord's dedication to lighter ranged weapons means that they are fleet but have strength 7. Toughness remains unchanged at 8.

Hawk Lord-Would be able to take 2 Star Lasers, Hawk Wings, Hawk grenade pack, and the SkyLeap & Intercept abilities. Because the Hawk Lord has been lightened to use its wings, it has the fleet rule, but its strength is reduced to 7 and its toughness is 6.

Scorpion Lord- Will be able to take Mandiblaster(+1A), Twin Chain Sabres(Gives the Scorp lord a base attack of 4), two twin-link shuriken catapults, and the Shadowstrike & Ambush(Stealth+Hit&Run) abilities. The Scorpion Lord is strength 9 and toughness 8


Now for the proposed Lords that might fit a more needed and unique notch in the Eldar army:

Reaper Lord- Is able to be equipped with a Vibro cannon, a choice between twin-linked Reaper or Tempest Launchers, and the Crack Shot & Fast Shot abilities. Because the Reaper Lords are thickly armoured they have Strength 8, Toughness 8 and a Sv of 2+.

Spider Lord- Is able to be equipped with a Twin-linked Shadow Weaver, Twin-linked Spinneret Rifle, Twin wraithswords(+1A) Warp jump generator(Capable of transporting Spiritseer?), and the Suprise assault & Withdraw abilities. The Spider lords have Strength 8, Toughness 8, and a 3+ save.

Wraith Lord- This Lord is powered by a spirit that mastered being a wraith guard and has no need for guidance from a spiritseer or any psyker. It can be equipped with Twin-linked D-Cannons, twin-linked flamers, Wraith sword, and has the ability to remove the wraithsight limitation from anry wraith guard units within 6 ".


These are the units up for discussion. Please feel free to theorize on how each of these would or would not work with the Eldar army and which units/builds they would work best with.
Also please post what you feel would be appropriate costs and possible different weapons/abilities options.

I again ask everyone, "Could you please not post wishlists or propose other new units?" Want this to be a unit by unit discussion. I will make exceptions for new units if they directly apply to the unit being discussed or to a unit previously discussed in this thread.

Thanks guys.

Exodite Auxiliaries would be awesome, also I love and always have loved the concept of aspect-wraithlords, but I think that rather than two twin-linked aspect related weapons, they should have one uber aspect-related weapon

Will get to the exodites eventually, but yes, I feel they need to factor into one of the Codices. Now back to the Aspect Lords.

If the weapons need to be changed, then to what?

What rules would you give these Aspect Lords?

How would you use these units and at what points do you think they should be?

So would the Wraith Lord be called the Wraith Lord Lord?

I'd prefer a spiritseer option for the farseer rather than a wraithlord without wraithsight, seeing as it's taboo for eldar to actually use wraiths as they see it as necromancy, so wraiths wouldn't really want to master being a wraithlord.

I have some aspect lords modeled up for apocalypse games, I'll have to post some pics. Here are the stats:

Scorpion Lord: Bright lance, Huge Chainsword, Energy Shield, mandi-cannons.

Cannons act as a heavy flamer. Energy shield gives a 4+ invulnerable save. Chansword (model is bigger then a terminator) multiplies wounds by d3, and adds +1 to the vehicle damage chart. 180 pts.

Spider Lord: Shadow Spinner, heavy flamer, warp jump pack, power claws (+1 A, reroll to hit). 200 pts.

Fire Dragon Lord: D cannon, thermal Lance, tank hunter. 150 points.

Dark Reaper Lord: EML, two s-cannons, reaper blades (+d6 attacks) 160 points.

Swooping Hawk lord: Jump Pack, scatter laser, heavy flamer, wraithsword, 200 pts.

Shining spear lord: (looks kind of like a necron destroyer lord, with a wraithlord torso on a vyper body)

Spear of Khane (Str D in close combat, S10 lance R 8' in shooting phase), fast, skimmer, 250 pts.

and also my Harly Shadow Seer Lord:

Psycher, Starcannon, giant h-kiss, veil of tears, immune to wraithsight (because it is an empty shell possessed by a Shadow seer) 170 pts.

In friendly games these are all usually just normal lords with a bright lance and wraithsword.

Which of these units would you like to see actually make it into the Eldar codex?

Which ones give the army something that fits but is unique enough to not obsolete an existing unit?

I don't think that aspect lords really fit into an eldar army, the wraith lords are powered by spirits which now have their minds dulled by being in the infinity circuit and the physical world is just a blur to them, so even if they were the mightiest Autarch, they would still have difficulty finding their way in a wraithbone tomb.

@NoShoes-I see this as a difference between Wraithsight with experience.

The thought behind this is, that rather than learning a whole new form of warfare they use the skills learned while they were living to fight. Think of their combat abilities as a trained reflex action.

I see, you want Wraithlords to be even more specialized because the person piloting was an exarch.

They already explain that in the codex (i.e a reaper exarch is fitted with guns while a banshee might be equipped with a wraithsword). Plus, when they become spirits in the infinity circuits their old martial prowess is dulled, so only the greatest eldar can become wraithlords.

However, ignoring that, I think that all the wraithlords should keep their original STR 10, T 8, but have a big jump in price for their specialization.

If i'm reading this correctly, the spider lord can teleport nearby units with it? Also how would rolling doubles affecting the jump? Would it take a wound, or does the spider lord instantly get lost in the warp?

The idea of flying fleeting wraithlords looks like it might get people having the same reaction as the blood angels flying dreadnought, except that wraithlords are way tougher to kill than a dreadnought.

I think that instead of giving them many of the abilities of their old exarch powers, perhaps they give bonuses to nearby aspect warriors of the same aspect (i.e the scorpion lord gives striking scorpions within 6" furious charge instead of letting a wraithlord infiltrate)

@ NoShoes-Thank you for the feed back. These are the kind of questions and ideas that I am hoping to see.
Sort of an how would this fit or work best and if not then what you feel would work.

I was thinking that the Spider Lord takes the wound seeing as it is his generator that is doing the Jumping and was thinking that Doubles rolls of 1's or 6's on the second jump would suck them in.

I really like the bonuses to their aspect idea. Sort of like Mini Avatars.

i thougth that the souls of exarchs stay within their armor when they "die"?

I believe that you are thinking of the Pheonix Lords, but I will go back and check.

You could also or instead assign related USR to them.

Avenger - A huge dire sword would only make sense if you intend it to attack other lords or the larger 'nids which aren't instantly gibbed by the high-strength attack from the lord.
Banshee - the mask could have the psychic scream ability, no?
Hawk - I'm unfamiliar with the Star Laser.
Dragon - Dragons aren't exactly tank troops, uncertain whether a T8 is appropriate when the others are T7. Could play on them being a mix between Avatar and Wraith Lord and give it immunity to fire in a similar manner instead.
Wraith - Somehow I feel the portable D-Cannon is sufficiently powerful without the highly increased melee of the Wraithsword. Mid-range shooty?

Since the Hawk and the Spider lords are meant to go "on their own" as well as a high chance of the Reaper lord staying behind the range of Farseers, maybe some sort of Focus Crystal upgrade for re-rolling the blindness test is appropriate. 10 points worth of insurance maybe?

A personal random comment on the topic: maybe Craftworld-individual Wraithlords is more appropriate. I have an image of a former Scorpion lord being more melee-biased, but maybe not quite fully functional with the semi-psychic abilities of an Exarch. However, an Iyanden lord would easily be a larger construct leaning more towards D-tech while a Sam-Hahn lord would have to have more speed to keep up.

The theory behind Exarch based lords is that an Exarch is a small infinity circuit to themselves, loaded with the spirits of all who wore the armor before. However, the suit itself is not invulnerable, and while most of the time the eldar retrieve the suit and repair it, some times only the spirit stones are left.

These stones cannot be laid into the Craftworld's circuit, since their obsession with war would bias the Craftworld. So until a new suit can be fabricated, which is a long and arduous process, the Exarch's souls power a wraithconstruct.

Normally, a wraith construct is powered by one spirit stone, so a multitude of stones would provide much more power. Power that can be channeled into arcane wargear suitable for Apocalypse level encounters.

In Apoc games they were used one of two ways. The first is using the "Spirit Host" rules, where they were treated as normal wraithlords.

The second was as I described earlier, with the additional rule that they could count squads of their aspect as a warlock for wraithsight purposes. This really looked cool as I had a full squad of each aspect running along with their lord. However, being all foot generally saw them all die horribly to Str D pie plates, but that is Apoc for you.

@Mahtamori & Durandel-With the Eldar codex being so crowded with units, "Which of these do you see as viable in the next codex?".

How many variations can you see actually making it into the next 'dex?

Do you feel that the Wraithlords are fine in the current game structure or do you think that they need a major rework(Stats, equipment, & points)?

I find that for its points, a Wraithlord is not very competitive. True, they are T8, so they require anti-tank weapons or PF to kill, but they don't dish out very much damage. With only two attacks they can easily be tarpitted and singled out by a hidden fist, and with only a 6' move they are slow.

For the same cost, you can have a moderately armed Falcon or Prism. Both are faster and have more firepower.

I doubt GW will put something like my wraithlords in the next dex. Most likely they will add an attack, alter some of the weapon point costs, and make them a 0-3 per slot. That seems the defacto change in codexes these days. My conversions were made because I thought they looked cool and I had an all foot aspect list back when everyone else ran triple falcons. The rules were a secondary thing after a few Apoc games. As an aside, I put some pictures in my gallery.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/gallery-user.jsp?u=2438

I really like the idea of themed wraithlords but honestly doubt that they will become a reality without additional craftworld codices. If GW ever stops slitting its own throat with their SM-centrist business plan and starts releasing codices that encourage different army builds(Like the Craftworld Codex and maybe introduce an Exodites and Outsiders Codex) then these units might become a very profitable reality.

Until this happens(about the same time Hades has a cold snap), I will be happy if the Wraithlords get wraithguard escorts, receive an extra attack, get to take the D-cannon, and wraithsight gets changed to where the spiritseer gives them Fleet.

Any three of these would be good.

Wraithlords are under "skilled" they really need a upgrade in BS and WS. But they do need more weapon to choose from. As for your idea they are good except the hawk lord that is perfect, a flying fleeting strength 7 Toughness 6 Monstrous Creature, Epic

@All Posters- I am going to move to the next unit. Feel free to continue discussing the wraithlords and ideas on how to improve them.

Personally I think that they are a great unit that fits the base concept of the Eldar very well. They just need to be refocused on their primary purpose as an effective bullet soak that has the ability to put out enough damage that they can't be ignored.


The next unit is one that doesn't exist yet. A transport that works with the aspect warriors assault abilities.

I'm not sure how GW might tackle this problem or if they will even try. My hope is that they will introduce a piece of wargear or unit upgrade that allows the transported unit to teleport or possibly tumble into assault.

Realistically, GW will probably use this as an opportunity to introduce and sell a new model.


So, I now ask, "What sort of assault transport do you see the Eldar receiving?".

How would you feel about Vypers being modified to carry two passengers each?

Squadron size of 3-4 vypers that can carry any unit with the acrobatic ability(Harlies&Banshees) might work. It would balance the units getting the ability to assault off of the transports and the vypers supporting fire with the squads being limited to 6-8 models max.

What do you guys think?

Well that sounds like a good idea. Banshees and scorpions would get a lot out of it for its weapons and protection.

^Was thinking only the Banshees and the Harlequins would get to ride the Vypers. It fits with their style.

The Scorpions can infiltrate and if I had a say they would either get fleet or a scout move in addition to the infiltrate rule.

Now, what should the Transport Vyper be named. Should it stay the same or should it get a name like the Drake or the Wyvern?

What should the armaments be?

Should they get the deep strike rule?

I have ideas but am interested in what others think.

for an assault vehical have something that can open a portal to the webway that allows units to come through and still assault (doesn't the cobra or some other super heavy already have something like this?)

i guess the alternative would give farseers the ability once per game to open a wraithgate just like in the ulthwe strikeforce. it might have to be adjusted a bit to fit the 5th edition rules....anyways what do you guys think?

I would keep the name. As for the armaments shuriken cannons would be good on it or I would arm it with sunrifles.
@TheAvari
For the portal rules the user would delare that they are using it. they can not anything that turn but next turn they can move 24" and it still counts as stationary. How is that?

Instead of being a closed topped assault vehicle, I would imagine the transport vyper to be more akin to the Dark Eldar Raider, which is open topped. I can imagine your idea of the Vyper with Banshees or Scorpions hanging on, while the vehicle zips ahead.

Edit#: Perhaps they can be given an upgrade to allow them to Deep Strike, a bit like the DE Raider or SM Landspeeders, showing that they're being dropped in from low orbit, and when they arrive on the table, they count as having moved flat out, and may not disembark or shoot the turn it arrives.

I thought about the deep-striking and, While very Dawn of War-ish, It doesn't fit the Eldar theme.

What I've come up with is an Eldar Out-flank rule that allows their vehicles to out-flank without making them OTT with a Scout move or infiltrate.

I think the Eldar arriving from almost every table edge would be a fluffy fix that could be easily balanced with equipment options and points.

What do ya think?

How will it work?
What I think the rule should be to deploy them any table edge as long as they are not with in 12" of an enemy unit and within 12" of the edge. As for the points maybe 60-65 per unit armed with the normal weapons as vypers.

Something like the dark eldar webway gate? I've always wanted one, not to wishlist.

focusedfire wrote:How would you feel about Vypers being modified to carry two passengers each?

Squadron size of 3-4 vypers that can carry any unit with the acrobatic ability(Harlies&Banshees) might work. It would balance the units getting the ability to assault off of the transports and the vypers supporting fire with the squads being limited to 6-8 models max.

What do you guys think?

This isn't a good idea and I don't think we will ever see this.

4 vipers carry 8 Harlies. What happens when one viper gets shot down? Two disembark and form a new unit? Those 2 are destroyed? Everybody must disembark?

Every idea is so disadvantageous that this wouldn't be a viable option. Taking a single transport for 8 models is easier and cheaper (points and money) too.

Macok wrote:

focusedfire wrote:How would you feel about Vypers being modified to carry two passengers each?

Squadron size of 3-4 vypers that can carry any unit with the acrobatic ability(Harlies&Banshees) might work. It would balance the units getting the ability to assault off of the transports and the vypers supporting fire with the squads being limited to 6-8 models max.

What do you guys think?

This isn't a good idea and I don't think we will ever see this.

4 vipers carry 8 Harlies. What happens when one viper gets shot down? Two disembark and form a new unit? Those 2 are destroyed? Everybody must disembark?

Every idea is so disadvantageous that this wouldn't be a viable option. Taking a single transport for 8 models is easier and cheaper (points and money) too.

Or something like the Harlequin 3rd edition unofficial codex transport (which was oddly chosen as a fast attack).

AV10/10/10, open topped, fast skimmer, linked cats, able to carry 6 infantry.

Since this would make a very fragile transport for some of the more expensive troops in the eldar army, some sort of energy or masking field might be in order. In short, a cheap option to the Wave Serpent for minned units.