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Was talking about the Demiurg in another thread and I got to thikinkg about what they would look like, statistically speaking, if they were included in a Tau codex. C&C is welcome.

First off is the HQ:
Demiurg Forge Lord
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
6 5 (4) (5) 3 3 4 10 2+
Unit Type: Infantry

Equipment: The Forge Lord is equipped with advanced Demiurg power armor, an Ion rifle, Demiurg Forge Hammer and EMP and Pulse grenades.

Options: The Forge Lord may be accompanied by a Forge Guard retinue. The Forge Lord and retinue count as a single HQ choice. The Forge Lord may also replace his Ion rifle with any weapon from the crisis suit armory.

Special Rules:
We are stone:
Demiurg are sturdy and steadfast, as such they are subject to the stubborn USR.

Honor to the Ancestors:
If the Forge Lord dies and his retinue remains, they will break from combat, at the next available opportunity, and leave the game from the nearest table edge. They may fight as normal if assaulted and may fire any non-heavy weapons in the shooting phase. This represents the great respect that Demiurg Forge Lords hold in the eyes of their forge brothers.

If a Forge Lord is included in your army, all Tau and other allied units become 0-1, with the exception of tanks and vehicles. If Tau units are included, an Ethereal "observer" must be purchased and included as an HQ choice to represent Tau interests during the engagement.

Forge Guard
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
4 4 3 4 1 2 2 9 3+
Unit Type: Infantry Unit Size: 5

Equipment: Demiurg armor, Forge Hammers, Ion rifles, EMP/Pulse grenades.

Options: Two squad members may replace either his rifle or hammer with a crisis suit weapon system.

Special Rules: Demiurg are sturdy and steadfast, as such they are subject to the stubborn USR.


Weapons notes: I haven't got as far as an armory as yet but here's what I'm thinking on the weapons mentioned so far.
Forge Hammers/
These honored weapons are passed down from father to son and have been used for thousands of years in the same family. They count as power weapons and increase the wielder's strength by 2 points.

Ion rifles/
Range: 18" S: 4 AP: 4 Assault 2

Demiurg Armor/
Powered armored exoskeletons that protect the wearer. These ornate suits often bear intricate designs and runic writing that denotes the wearer's clan.

Advanced Demiurg Armor/
Passed down from clan lord to clan lord, these suits of armor are master-crafted works of art. Such suits confer a 4+ invulnerable save on the wearer. Along with increased protection, such suits bestow a bonus to toughness and strength upon the wearer.


Next up will be the elite section.

Now on to the Elites:

0-1
Demiurg Harbinger
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
4 5 (4) (5) 2 3 2 10 2+
Unit Type: Infantry

Equipment: The Harbinger is equipped with advanced Demiurg power armor, an Ion rifle, Demiurg Forge Hammer and EMP and Pulse grenades.

Options: The Harbinger may be accompanied by a Forge Guard retinue. The Harbinger and any accompanying Forge Golems count as a single elite choice. Harbinger may also replace his Ion rifle with any weapon from the crisis suit armory.

Special Rules:
We are stone:
Demiurg are sturdy and steadfast, as such they are subject to the stubborn USR.

Independant Character:

Psyker:
Harbingers are a rarity among the Demiurg population. They are the warp navigators, priests and account for the races entire psychic presence in the warp. A Harbinger has knowledge of all of the powers from the list provided and may use one per player turn unless otherwise noted.

0-3
Forge Golem
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
4 -- 4 4 1 2 2 9 3+/ 5+ inv.
Unit Type: Infantry Unit Size: 5

Equipment: Dermal Plating, Forge Hammers, EMP/Pulse grenades.

Options: Up to 5 additional Golem may be purchased for each unit at an additional cost of XX pts per model.

Special Rules:
To the Last:
Golem are programmed to protect the harbinger at all costs and as such are subject to the fearless USR. As long as even one Golem is standing, no wounds can be allocated to the Harbinger. Golem units that do not accompany a Harbinger are not affected by this rule.

Deep Strike:
Golem, and any accompanying Harbinger, may deep strike as per the USR.

Golem are made of the toughest alloys and are designed to work under extreme conditions. To represent their construction, they have an invulnerable save of 5+ and are immune to instant death that may be caused by weapons of the melta type.


Psychic Powers [Harbinger]:
Show your metal!
At the beginning of the controlling player's assault phase, the Harbinger may choose any one Demiurg unit (not Golem) within 12". Until the end of the player's turn the selected unit is receives a 5+ invulnerable save and adds +1 to each model's strength characteristic.

Steady Lads!
At any point during the controlling player's turn, the Harbinger may choose any Demiurg unit (not Golem) on the field. Until the controlling player's next turn, the unit ignores morale and leadership checks caused for any reason (whether for combat resolution, pinning, etc.)

Back at ya!
The Harbinger may use this ability once per opponent's turn, even if another ability was used during the player's turn. Any offensive psychic, tyranid or daemonic ability targeting a Demiurg (not Golem) unit instead affects the nearest enemy unit. Any template affects are determined to originate 3" from the front of the enemy unit.

I think there needs to be at least one more power but I can't think of any right now; recommendations are welcome!

Next will be Core units.

If I may say so; well done. I have no complaints thus far! I *would* make it mandatory to take an Ethereal or special character Ethereal if the army is not a pure Demiurg army. (and waive the normal restriction for the 1+ Shas'o/'el).

Che-Vito wrote:If I may say so; well done. I have no complaints thus far! I *would* make it mandatory to take an Ethereal or special character Ethereal if the army is not a pure Demiurg army. (and waive the normal restriction for the 1+ Shas'o/'el).

You bring up something that I've been thinking on.... I don't want to make a stand alone army but I don't want to make it OP by including all the Tau shooty goodness while having the Demiurg be the close combat element of the force which is why I made the 0-1 for all Tau units.

Maybe, as you say, an Ethereal "observer" would be a nice requirement; someone to supervise the Tau units that are taken.

Any thoughts on how to mesh the Demiurg with the Tau better is much appreciated as are your comments.

agnosto wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:If I may say so; well done. I have no complaints thus far! I *would* make it mandatory to take an Ethereal or special character Ethereal if the army is not a pure Demiurg army. (and waive the normal restriction for the 1+ Shas'o/'el).

You bring up something that I've been thinking on.... I don't want to make a stand alone army but I don't want to make it OP by including all the Tau shooty goodness while having the Demiurg be the close combat element of the force which is why I made the 0-1 for all Tau units.

Maybe, as you say, an Ethereal "observer" would be a nice requirement; someone to supervise the Tau units that are taken.

Any thoughts on how to mesh the Demiurg with the Tau better is much appreciated as are your comments.

The "observer" idea makes sense to me (yes, I know that Kroot and Vespid don't require such oversight, but you seem to be proposing a much more extensive army list.)

As far as "meshing", I already think they will mesh well with the requirements you have set...with the Ethereal "observer" to provide more of a fluffy setpiece to the whole ordeal.

Now on to the Core Units:

1+
Demiurg ClansmanDemiurg Veteran
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
4 3 3 4 1 2 1 9 3+
4 4 3 4 1 3 2 10 3+
Unit Type: Infantry Squad Size4 clansmen + 1 veteran

Equipment: Clansmen are equipped with Demiurg power armor, an Ion rifle, and EMP and Pulse grenades.

Options: The Veteran may replace his Ion rifle with any single weapon from the crisis suit armory or purchase a Forge Hammer for XX pts. An additional 5 clansmen may be purchased for XX pts. If the unit size is 10 models, one clansmen may be designated as a heavy weapons specialist and may replace his Ion rifle with an Ion Emiter for XX pts. or Ion pulse Beam for XX pts.

Special Rules:
We are stone:
Demiurg are sturdy and steadfast, as such they are subject to the stubborn USR.



Demiurg Rangers
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
4 4* 3 4 1 2 1 9 3+
Unit Type: Infantry Unit Size: 4 + Veteran

Equipment: Demiurg are equipped with Demiurg power armor, an Ion long-rifle, and EMP and Pulse grenades and Tau targeting arrays.

Options: Up to 5 additional Demiurg Rangers may be purchased for each unit at an additional cost of XX pts per model.

Special Rules:
We are stone:
Demiurg are sturdy and steadfast, as such they are subject to the stubborn USR.

Scouts
Demiurg Rangers' specialized training confers the Scout USR on the unit unless joined by an independant character.

Core Unit Armory:
Ion Emiter:
This weapon fires a diffuse negatively charged Ionic field in a broadly dispersed pattern. When fired, use the flamer template with any model touched by the template being affected. Ion Emiters ignore cover.
Range: Template Strength: 5 AP: 4 Assault 1

Ion Pulse Beam:
This heavy weapon fires a very high energy beam that disrupts the atomic structure of anything it hits. Originially designed for mining operations, it has since been seeing service on the battlefield. When fired, the player uses a straight edge to create a 24" line from the firing model; the weapon's beam is considered to be 1" wide. Any model under the line is struck with the following affect.
Range: 24" Strength: 9 AP:1 Heavy 1

Ion Long Rifle:
After observing Tau pulse technology, Demiurg scientists devised an alteration to their Ion rifle technology that sacrifices mobility for range and has since been issued to Demiurg Rangers.
Range: 30" Strength: 5 AP:3 Heavy 1 *Note the weapon always wounds on a 6 as AP 1, regardless of target toughness.

As always C&C is welcome. Next will be Fast Attack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh geez. I didn't realize it but Privateer Press makes some figures called SearForge that have the same name as my forge guard and even look like I envisoned them. Oh well, I guess it won't be hard to find models for them....and here I was thinking of how I was going to be forced to do some converting...

Now on to the Fast Attack Units:


Demiurg War BikersDemiurg War Biker Veteran
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
4 3 3 4(5) 1 2 1 9 3+
4 4 3 4(5) 1 3 2 10 3+
Unit Type: Bikes Squad Size4 Bikers + 1 veteran

Equipment: Bikers are equipped with Demiurg power armor, an Ion rifle, and EMP and Pulse grenades.

Options: The Veteran may replace his Ion rifle with any single weapon from the crisis suit armory or purchase a Forge Hammer for XX pts. An additional 5 Bikers may be purchased for XX pts each. For every 5 Bikers, one model may be designated as a heavy weapons specialist and may replace his Ion rifle with an Ion Emiter for XX pts. or Ion pulse Beam for XX pts.

Special Rules:
We are stone:
Demiurg are sturdy and steadfast, as such they are subject to the stubborn USR.

Infiltrate
Fast



Demiurg Rushers
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
4 3 4 4 1 2 1 9 3+
4 4 4 4 1 3 2 10 3+
Unit Type: Infantry Unit Size: 4 + Veteran

Equipment: Demiurg are equipped with Rush armor, an Ion rifle, and EMP and Pulse grenades.

Options: Up to 5 additional Demiurg Rushers may be purchased for each unit at an additional cost of XX pts per model. The Veteran may replace his Ion rifle with any single weapon from the crisis suit armory or purchase a Forge Hammer for XX pts. For every 5 rushers, one model may be designated as a heavy weapons specialist and may replace his Ion rifle with an Ion Emiter for XX pts. or Ion pulse Beam for XX pts.

Special Rules:
We are stone:
Demiurg are sturdy and steadfast, as such they are subject to the stubborn USR.

Deep Strike
Rushers are usually younger Demiurg that are seen as reckless in that they utilize experimental technology that may see them wind up as smears of blood.

Feel the Rush!
Rushers do not scatter 2d6" as normal when deep striking, instead, they scatter d6". If they scatter onto a unit (friendly or otherwise) the Rusher unit is immediately destroyed (no roll for mishap) and the affected unit takes d6 Strength 5 / AP 4 hits as armored Demiurg bits and weapons pummel the area. Models wearing Rush Armor are able to fire or assault (not both) the turn they arrive on the board. All other Deep Strike rules apply.


Fast Attack Unit Armory:
Rush Armor:
This "experimental" (because it's only been in use for several centuries) armor harnesses ambient warp energy to allow the wearer to teleport from one place to another by opening a temporary hole in space. A recent addition to the armor is a built-in amplifier that provides further stability to the transportation resulting in greater accuracy. Most Demiurg hold a dim view of Rush armor and those young warriors that use it as it does not fit with traditional Demiurg society. Models wearing Rush Armor are able to fire or assault (not both) the turn they arrive on the board.




As always C&C is welcome. Next will be Heavy Support.

Demi-urg Bikers of any sort are Squats and GW will never bring them back. GW has made their stance clear that They are willing to bring dwarves back, but only in a manner thay does justice to the archetype.

I like the Rangers idea but the Ion Rifle needs to be AP 1 on a roll of a 6.

The Ion Pulse Beam I like.

Not a fan of Psychic allies that have active abilities. Would like to see Psychic defense from machine intelligences that are uneffected by Psychic abilities.

I like the Golems.

focusedfire wrote:Demi-urg Bikers of any sort are Squats and GW will never bring them back. GW has made their stance clear that They are willing to bring dwarves back, but only in a manner thay does justice to the archetype.

I like the Rangers idea but the Ion Rifle needs to be AP 1 on a roll of a 6.

The Ion Pulse Beam I like.

Not a fan of Psychic allies that have active abilities. Would like to see Psychic defense from machine intelligences that are uneffected by Psychic abilities.

I like the Golems.

Well, the Bikers were put in because the army needs something that will get across the table and I didn't want them to have a speeder type unit. The whole bent of the force is a sort of, "in your face" kind of thing as their standard weapon is fairly short range. I didn't want to reinvent the wheel by making some sort of assault craft and I thought jetpack infantry would be a little out there.. If you can think of something different, I'm all ears.

The rangers have long-rifles, did you mean it should be rending? I can agree with that and I'll add it in.

All the psychic abilities for the Harbinger are passive in nature. Two buffs and one that redirects hostile energy back onto the attacker. All an opponent has to do is not use hostil psyker powers near a harbinger and it would negate that ability.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Edit:
Going back and looking through this, I think maybe I should change the Ion Pulse Beam a bit; it seems a little OP that it will hit everything in a 24"x1" line. Maybe I should make it where models are hit on a 4+? Thoughts?

I've always viewed the Dwarves as ultra tough foot-sloggers. Something in between human and a small monsterous creature with a Stat-line something like:
WS4 BS3 S3-4 T5 W2 A2 I3 Ld8(Stubborn)Sv 3+ 4++.................
Some of the differing units would maybe have strength 4, toughness 6(Golems?) and a Save of 2+. Think of them in an epic anime battle where they get hit with an energy beam and knocked back a step until they lean into their shields and continue their slow march forward.

I think a special rule giving a defense against sub-terrainin assault might be a good rule and a nice bit of fluff dealing with how they survived the Tyranids. This would make the Broadside castle more effective.

As to the long rifles, I was thinking of making the CIB rule as an Ion weapon family rule where most of the Ion weapons will become AP 1 on the to wound or armour penetration roll of a 6.

Your Psychic power concepts are sound, I just don't see the dwarves themselves as psykers but could see where their equipment could be immune to psychic attacks.

You Ion pulse beam will be fine if you change to a straight line like the Vibro-cannon or JotWW.


As to transporting the Urg. How about you don't, and instead have them use long-range remote weapons that fly about the battle field? I was thinking of doing something like this for the Sniper Drones in my Fan-Dex before I decided to make the drones smarter and more independent.

What do you think?

Well I suppose I could remove the bikers and just leave the rushers as fast attack.

The powerful long-range stuff is coming for the heavy support....which is going to be a bit spoiled for choices.

I'll think on your comments; however, I don't see me going so uber on the stats.

As for the harbinger/psyker...didn't the old squat Living Ancestor have some psychic abilities? It would be a simple thing to make it tech based. I'll think about it.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

No worries, My ideas are intended to be food for thought.

If you can make Dwarven Bikers that don't become Squats 3.0 then go for it. I am only encouraging a more classic dwarven archtype.

Here is something that might help, Think about how the Demi-urg will mesh with the Tau.
What will their roll within the Tau Empire be?
How do you show that they are technological equals to the Tau without creating questions of why the Tau lead?
To what level do the Two Races share technology?

You've got some great ideas and I can't wait to see how you fully develope them with the rest of your ideas.

Now on to the Heavy Support Units:


Demiurg Ion Cannon Skid
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
4 3 3 4(5) 1 2 1 9 3+

Skid Armor Values:
Front: 11 Side: 11 Rear: 10 BS: (4)

Unit Type: Skimmer Tank Squad Size1 cannon skid + 2 crew

Equipment: The crew are equipped with Demiurg power armor, an Ion rifle, and EMP and Pulse grenades. The skid is equipped with an Advanced Ion Cannon and targeting array (included in profile).

Options: The Ion Cannon of any skid may be replaced with a Mole Mortar for free or for an Ionic Storm Generator for XX pts.

Special Rules:
We are stone:
Demiurg are sturdy and steadfast, as such they are subject to the stubborn USR.

Open Topped Skimmer:

Stable Platform:
The grav drive of the skid is such that it provides a stable firing platform at the cost of mobility. To represent this, the model may always move 6" unless otherwise prevented from doing so by being immobilized or some other effect. The model may never move more than 6" per turn and is always able to fire its' weapon, unless the weapon is destroyed or through some other effect.

Squad:
Up to 3 skids may be purchased as a squad and count as one heavy support choice. The skid is considered a vehicle.



Demiurg Heavy Assault Skimmer

Unit Type: Skimmer Tank Unit Size: 1

Assault Skimmer Armor Values:
Front: 13 Sides: 13 Rear: 13 BS: (4)

Equipment: The Assault Skimmer is equipped with an Ion Pulse Beam turret and two twin-linked Ion Rifle sponsons.

Options: None

Transport Capacity: 10 Demiurg models or 5 Golem

Special Rules:
Assault Vehicle:
The occupants may disembark and make assault moves from any side of the vehicle (front, sides or rear).

'Ere, let me take a look at that.
The crew of the Assault Skimmer is able to repair damage class each turn (except for a wrecked or destroyed result). This means that if the vehicle suffers an immobilized and weapon destroyed result (for example) in the same turn, the controlling player may choose to repair one of these conditions at the end of their following turn. This repair action is instead of choosing to move or fire that turn as it takes the crew's entire concentration to complete the repairs.


Heavy Support Unit Armory:
Advanced Ion Cannon:
Though the Demiurg share their technology with their Tau allies, they do not entrust any race with the complete knowledge of all of their secrets. The advanced design of the Tau utilized Ion Cannon is an improvement on the standard design in that it has enhanced rate of fire capabilities.
Range: 60" Strength: 7 AP: 3 Heavy 5

*such is the power variance due to the high rate of fire, any roll of 6 to wound/penetrate is AP1.

Mole Mortar:
Through their long fight against the Tyranid foe that nearly wiped out their entire race. The Demiurg developed the Mole Mortar as a way of defending against subterranean assault. The may fire at Tyranid units arriving by subterranean assault, if the Mole Mortar was not fired during the controlling player's turn. If a Tyranid player chooses an underground assault and the Demiurg player is able to fire all hits and wounds are accounted for before the Tyranid unit surfaces. In such instances, the intended surface zone is considered the target when determining range. The Mole Mortar is much more effective below ground than above.

Range: 48" Strength: 4 / 6 AP: 4 Heavy 3

Ionic Storm Generator:
Demiurg technicians discovered how to create localized Ionic disturbances by delivering an intensely compacted package of negatively charged Ions to an area. The package is delivered inside a time released enclosure and explodes upon reaching its destination. Ionic Storms ignore cover saves due to the violent nature of the released energy. Only models inside a completely shielded enclosure (non-open toppped vehicle, bunker, etc.) are able to use cover. Vehicles that are even touched by the template are rendered immobile for 1 turn on the roll of a 5+ as their electronics are disrupted by the storm.

Range: 50" Strength: 4 AP: 5 Heavy 1 Large Blast


As always C&C is welcome.

agnosto wrote:Now on to the Heavy Support Units:


Demiurg Ion Cannon Skid
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
4 3 3 4(5) 1 2 1 9 3+

Skid Armor Values:
Front: 11 Side: 11 Rear: 10 BS: (4)

Unit Type: Skimmer Tank Squad Size1 cannon skid + 2 crew

Equipment: The crew are equipped with Demiurg power armor, an Ion rifle, and EMP and Pulse grenades. The skid is equipped with an Advanced Ion Cannon and targeting array (included in profile).

Options: The Ion Cannon of any skid may be replaced with a Mole Mortar for free or for an Ionic Storm Generator for XX pts.

Special Rules:
We are stone:
Demiurg are sturdy and steadfast, as such they are subject to the stubborn USR.

Open Topped Skimmer:

Stable Platform:
The grav drive of the skid is such that it provides a stable firing platform at the cost of mobility. To represent this, the model may always move 6" unless otherwise prevented from doing so by being immobilized or some other effect. The model may never move more than 6" per turn and is always able to fire its' weapon, unless the weapon is destroyed or through some other effect.

Squad:
Up to 3 skids may be purchased as a squad and count as one heavy support choice. The skid is considered a vehicle.

SM land speeders are not open topped due to them wearing power armour. (3+)
As Demiurg are wearing 3+ then it shouldn't be open topped.

VikingScott wrote:

SM land speeders are not open topped due to them wearing power armour. (3+)
As Demiurg are wearing 3+ then it shouldn't be open topped.

Good point but I was thinking more along the lines of just an anti-grav platform with a big gun on it rather than a complete vehicle...

Hrm, I'll think on it. Thanks!

Great job so far. I love the flavor of the units. They really feel like a dwarf ally.

On the power side, I think the statline is a little strong for the Leaders. The statline for the Clansmen is good, denoting a human-sized-ish creature that is tough and skilled with weapons (although the Ld is high imo). The higher S and T on the HQ and elite seem too much (the base stat that is, not after modifiers which are cool). Remember that even the mightiest Space Marine Master is still S4 T4.

Also, perhaps the stability of the Rush Armor or the tenacity of the young Demiurg allow a unit to assault the turn it teleported with Rush armor. Otherwise, they wouldn't really be a fast attack.

@Fiend- (A Short Guy with a boisterous voice says)Ya, but any dwarf can out drink and outfight any two SM's.)D

Fiend wrote:Great job so far. I love the flavor of the units. They really feel like a dwarf ally.

On the power side, I think the statline is a little strong for the Leaders. The statline for the Clansmen is good, denoting a human-sized-ish creature that is tough and skilled with weapons (although the Ld is high imo). The higher S and T on the HQ and elite seem too much (the base stat that is, not after modifiers which are cool). Remember that even the mightiest Space Marine Master is still S4 T4.

Also, perhaps the stability of the Rush Armor or the tenacity of the young Demiurg allow a unit to assault the turn it teleported with Rush armor. Otherwise, they wouldn't really be a fast attack.

Thanks for stopping in and sharing your thoughts. Dwarves were the 1st army I ever played (fantasy) and they all had a base 9 leadership so I don't think it's too out of the question for the Demiurg to have it as well.

About the Forge Lord and Harbinger. I had meant for the bonus to be attributed to the advanced armor they wear; I've changed the profiles and gear description to show this; thanks for bringing it up. A dwarf should always be tougher than a pitiful humie anyway.

Wow, a great idea for the Rushers (I'm still not in love with the name, so if you think of something, let me know).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm still going over focusedfire's dislike of the bikers in my head but can't think of a unit to replace them.

@focusedfire, can you think of something I can replace them with?

@all, I need some input regarding the wargear as to how useful or powerful (OP even) you think they are.

Thanks for the comments everyone!

@Agnosto-Names for the Rushers? How about?:

Dwarven Beserkers

The Battle Furies

The Sober Ones


Automatically Appended Next Post:

agnosto wrote:@focusedfire, can you think of something I can replace them with?

Instead of bikes?

How about ATV's that behave like cavalry but are relentless? They'd move 6", Fire, then assault 12"

Rusher names:

War Blazers or just Blazers (like trail blazers)

Flash Squad or Flash Hammers (cause there's a flash and then there is a, you know, a squad or hammers in your face)

Younglings (if you want to play up that they are generally youth)

Mad Packers (maybe the demiurg using this tech are a bit excentric, and the armor has a pack for the tele.)