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Can there be anyway to make a codex for Modern Earth, or will it be like Earth Assault were modern humans get scerw.

this tread will cause troll fest

It isn't easyly done as there is little stat difference possible.
Average human 40k mostly 3s
Average human now also mostly 3s
Weapons 40k Lasgun
weapons now Autoguns (pretty much, just not as easy to repair etc.)
Both guns have the same stats.
Both soldiers have the same stats.

I'll mention some reasons why we couldn't have it.

1) Auto cannons are modern day equivilents of tank cannons.

2) We basicly use stub guns and stub rifles (do they even exist?) for our guns.

3) IMO we would have a - for an armour save and a special rule which says if we encounter anything other than another "human" codex army, then we all have a leadership of D6 because we freak out due to advanced weaponry/robots that are hard to kill/8 ft tall superhumans with rapid fire rocket launchers as they basic weaponry/ mean green things which want to stomp on you/ ect, which we have never encountered so far.

I personally don't think that is a troll.

VikingScott wrote:It isn't easyly done as there is little stat difference possible.
Average human 40k mostly 3s
Average human now also mostly 3s
Weapons 40k Lasgun
weapons now Autoguns (pretty much, just not as easy to repair etc.)
Both guns have the same stats.
Both soldiers have the same stats.

No are weapons are far weaker than a lasgun
a Assault Rifle would be
St 1 Ap - R 36 Type Assault 1


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wizard12 wrote:I'll mention some reasons why we couldn't have it.

1) Auto cannons are modern day equivilents of tank cannons.

2) We basicly use stub guns and stub rifles (do they even exist?) for our guns.

3) IMO we would have a - for an armour save and a special rule which says if we encounter anything other than another "human" codex army, then we all have a leadership of D6 because we freak out due to advanced weaponry/robots that are hard to kill/8 ft tall superhumans with rapid fire rocket launchers as they basic weaponry/ mean green things which want to stomp on you/ ect, which we have never encountered so far.

I personally don't think that is a troll.

Yeah but our modren soldier is still braver than a simple guards men

xxmatt85: Okay, step in line to get shot by a modern assault rifle, I dare you.

wizard12 wrote:[snip]

1) Only faster firing.
2) Yep, they exist. Mostly in Dark Heresy, which covers the civilian aspects of 40k better.
3) I'd say leadership 8, nine on elite (veteran) units. The Guard often feels the same way after all.


I'm working on something right now.

At S1, even a grot could shrug off an assault rifle's fire. I'd say it's more like:
St 2 Ap - R 24 Type Rapid fire

Luke_Prowler wrote:At S1, even a grot could shrug off an assault rifle's fire. I'd say it's more like:
St 2 Ap - R 24 Type Rapid fire

lol what about 1.5 if they could do that, a assault rifle can shoot furer than 24 so 36

xxmatt85 wrote:Yeah but our modren soldier is still braver than a simple guards men

Erm... no?

Firstly, modern soldiers (in the "first world") are actually well trained and are almost exclusively on a volunteer basis. Guardsmen are almost exclusively conscripted.

Secondly, Guardsmen see horrors and conditions that even the most well trained modern soldier would crap his insides just thinking about and knowing is real. Yet they continue on fighting regardless. Modern Solders just have to shoot other people. You think our modern armies would not run from 15 foot high Hive Tyrants who literally dissolve you from the inside out with alien larvae and can cause your mind to explode just by thinking about it? Yeah, didn't think so.

Thirdly, these are men who in almost every case have been soldiers ALL their life. Cadians begin their training from BIRTH ffs and know how to strip and clean a weapon blindfolded by the age of 10. These are still only S3, T3 and BS 3. If anything, Modern Humans should be S2, T2 and BS2.

Fourthly, yes, Lasguns are freaking Laserbeams. On Crak. Modern Assault Rifles are to Lasguns what a M16 is to a early 20th century revolver.

OP check lexicanum for auto weapons.
It stats that they are like our modern weapons but more accurate, less prone to jams etc.
so S3
Oh and lasguns have more ammo and easer to mantain over auto weapons so thats is why the guard doesnt have them any more.

Here's what I came up with for a common infantry unit, based on a bit of research:

American Army Infantry Unit
An American Army Infantry Unit contains the following:
1 Command Fire Team (Staff Sergeant and 3 Soldiers)
1-3 Fire Teams (Sergeant and 3 Soldiers)
Fire Teams may deploy separately or together, same as in C:IG.

One Soldier in each Fire Team or Command Fire Team may be upgraded to the following for +5 points:
-- Automatic Rifleman
-- Grenadier
-- Squad Designated Marksman

Statlines:

Army Soldier
WS3, BS3, S3, T3, I3, A1(2), Ld7, Sv6+, 4 pts
-- Body Armor (6+ save)
-- M16A4 (counts as lasgun)
-- M9 Pistol (counts as laspistol
-- Bayonet/Combat Knife (counts as 1 CCW)
-- Frag Grenades

Army Sergeant
WS3, BS3, S3, T3, I3, A2(3), Ld8, Sv6+, 9 pts
-- Body Armor (6+ save)
-- M16A4 (counts as lasgun)
-- M9 Pistol (counts as laspistol
-- Bayonet/Combat Knife (counts as 1 CCW)
-- Frag Grenades
-- Radio system (counts as vox)

Army Staff Sergeant
WS3, BS3, S3, T3, I3, A2(3), Ld8, Sv6+, 9 pts
-- Body Armor (6+ save)
-- M16A4 (counts as lasgun)
-- M9 Pistol (counts as laspistol
-- Bayonet/Combat Knife (counts as 1 CCW)
-- Frag Grenades
-- Radio system (counts as vox)
-- May give Orders like a Platoon Commander

Automatic Rifleman
WS3, BS3, S3, T3, I3, A1(2), Ld7, Sv6+
-- Body Armor (6+ save)
-- M16A4 (counts as lasgun)
-- M249 SAWS (counts as heavy stubber)
-- M9 Pistol (counts as laspistol)
-- Bayonet/Combat Knife (counts as 1 CCW)
-- Frag Grenades

Grenadier
WS3, BS3, S3, T3, I3, A1(2), Ld7, Sv6+
-- Body Armor (6+ save)
-- M16A4 (counts as lasgun)
-- M320 Grenade Launcher (counts as grenade launcher)
---- Instead of firing, may use a Smoke Grenade to grant the squad the Stealth USR for one turn.
-- M9 Pistol (counts as laspistol)
-- Bayonet/Combat Knife (counts as 1 CCW)
-- Frag Grenades

Squad Designated Marksman
WS3, BS4, S3, T3, I3, A1(2), Ld7, Sv6+
-- Body Armor (6+ save)
-- M16A4 SDM
---- Fire mode 1: R36", SX AP-, Heavy 1 Sniper
---- Fire mode 2: R24", S3 AP-, Rapid Fire
-- M9 Pistol (counts as laspistol)
-- Bayonet/Combat Knife (counts as 1 CCW)
-- Frag Grenades



The US Army operates a bit differently from the Guard, using a lot of fire teams. That's just a basic squad, a platoon would have many of these.

Melissia wrote:Here's what I came up with for a common infantry unit, based on a bit of research:

American Army Infantry Unit
An American Army Infantry Unit contains the following:
1 Command Fire Team (Staff Sergeant and 3 Soldiers)
1-3 Fire Teams (Sergeant and 3 Soldiers)
Fire Teams may deploy separately or together, same as in C:IG.

One Soldier in each Fire Team or Command Fire Team may be upgraded to the following for +5 points:
-- Automatic Rifleman
-- Grenadier
-- Squad Designated Marksman

Statlines:

Army Soldier
WS3, BS3, S3, T3, I3, A1(2), Ld7, Sv6+, 4 pts
-- Body Armor (6+ save)
-- M16A4 (counts as lasgun)
-- M9 Pistol (counts as laspistol
-- Bayonet/Combat Knife (counts as 1 CCW)
-- Frag Grenades

Army Sergeant
WS3, BS3, S3, T3, I3, A2(3), Ld8, Sv6+, 9 pts
-- Body Armor (6+ save)
-- M16A4 (counts as lasgun)
-- M9 Pistol (counts as laspistol
-- Bayonet/Combat Knife (counts as 1 CCW)
-- Frag Grenades
-- Radio system (counts as vox)

Army Staff Sergeant
WS3, BS3, S3, T3, I3, A2(3), Ld8, Sv6+, 9 pts
-- Body Armor (6+ save)
-- M16A4 (counts as lasgun)
-- M9 Pistol (counts as laspistol
-- Bayonet/Combat Knife (counts as 1 CCW)
-- Frag Grenades
-- Radio system (counts as vox)
-- May give Orders like a Platoon Commander

Automatic Rifleman
WS3, BS3, S3, T3, I3, A1(2), Ld7, Sv6+
-- Body Armor (6+ save)
-- M16A4 (counts as lasgun)
-- M249 SAWS (counts as heavy stubber)
-- M9 Pistol (counts as laspistol)
-- Bayonet/Combat Knife (counts as 1 CCW)
-- Frag Grenades

Grenadier
WS3, BS3, S3, T3, I3, A1(2), Ld7, Sv6+
-- Body Armor (6+ save)
-- M16A4 (counts as lasgun)
-- M320 Grenade Launcher (counts as grenade launcher)
---- Instead of firing, may use a Smoke Grenade to grant the squad the Stealth USR for one turn.
-- M9 Pistol (counts as laspistol)
-- Bayonet/Combat Knife (counts as 1 CCW)
-- Frag Grenades

Squad Designated Marksman
WS3, BS4, S3, T3, I3, A1(2), Ld7, Sv6+
-- Body Armor (6+ save)
-- M16A4 SDM
---- Fire mode 1: R36", SX AP-, Heavy 1 Sniper
---- Fire mode 2: R24", S3 AP-, Rapid Fire
-- M9 Pistol (counts as laspistol)
-- Bayonet/Combat Knife (counts as 1 CCW)
-- Frag Grenades

Wow thanks you should add a M1 Abarms and Miltia later.

Gwar! wrote:

xxmatt85 wrote:Yeah but our modren soldier is still braver than a simple guards men

Erm... no?

Firstly, modern soldiers (in the "first world") are actually well trained and are almost exclusively on a volunteer basis. Guardsmen are almost exclusively conscripted.

Secondly, Guardsmen see horrors and conditions that even the most well trained modern soldier would crap his insides just thinking about and knowing is real. Yet they continue on fighting regardless. Modern Solders just have to shoot other people. You think our modern armies would not run from 15 foot high Hive Tyrants who literally dissolve you from the inside out with alien larvae and can cause your mind to explode just by thinking about it? Yeah, didn't think so.

Thirdly, these are men who in almost every case have been soldiers ALL their life. Cadians begin their training from BIRTH ffs and know how to strip and clean a weapon blindfolded by the age of 10. These are still only S3, T3 and BS 3. If anything, Modern Humans should be S2, T2 and BS2.

Fourthly, yes, Lasguns are freaking Laserbeams. On Crak. Modern Assault Rifles are to Lasguns what a M16 is to a early 20th century revolver.

Have to chime in here. I'm in the military, and in Iraq right now. There's a lot of disturbing stuff over here, but if I go out on patrol tomorrow, and there are one or more of the following facing me:

a) Terminator-looking robot flaying the very molecules from things with green laser beams
b) 40-foot tall lizard-bug thing with tentacles and sharp bits
c) 10-foot tall green skinned monstrosities riding a junkyard into battle and talking like poor football hooligans
d) 10-foot tall armored monstrosities riding 10-foot tall (at the shoulder) wolves that eat bears for breakfast
e) whatever the hell arco-flagellants are
f) mother@#&*' Doomrider

I'm going to scream like a bitch and go in the other direction as fast as I physically can. I can admit that and still feel comfortable with myself. We just aren't trained or equipped to deal with stuff like that. Especially Doomrider. No one is trained or equipped to deal with him.

Orks aren't normally all that much taller than humans, actually.

Well, mostly because they're hunched over. But still, if they stood up straight, I imagine most Orks wouldn't reach eight feet. Still frightening, mind you.


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However I should note that I made that army list assuming that Earth humans have had some time to get used to the idea of aliens existing and wanting to kill everyone, and are trained for such.


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Another note: Taking this to the 40k Proposed Rules board.

I'd say that most modern armies would have WS2, since they've been trained to never get into hand to hand combat unless as self defense.

I don't think Guard are exactly trained for hand to hand combat either. The US army, at least, teaches some form of bayonet / knife fighting I think.

Melissia wrote:I don't think Guard are exactly trained for hand to hand combat either. The US army, at least, teaches some form of bayonet / knife fighting I think.

So ture that it's right .

Codex Modern Earth:
Faction: UN
Rules: Are only able to engage enemy on a roll of 6.
Will not do anything at on on their own until the Marines show up as allies.

Sniper squad - 60 points (Elites)

Ws - 2
Bs - 4
S - 3
T - 3
W - 1
I - 3
A - 1
Ld - 8
Sv - 5+

Squad of five men, armed with 50. caliber sniper rifles, and M9 sidearms.

Special Rules:
Move Through Cover
Infiltrate

Barret 50. Caliber - Counts as a sniper rifle with the following profile: Range - 36", S - X, Ap - 4, Heavy 1. Due to the armour piercing ammunition, the 50. caliber counts as S8 against vehicles.

Ghillie - Each sniper wears a Ghillie suit. This suit confers +2 (to a maximum of a 2+ save) to the units cover save, with a 5+ when in open ground.

Shoot, and move - Snipers are trained to take their shot, and move to avoid detection. Should the unit make a kill with their 50. calibers, they must move D6", in a direction of the controlling player's choice.



Close assault squad - 60 points (Troops, 1 may be taken for every Infantry squad)

Ws - 3
Bs - 4
S - 3
T - 3
W - 1
I - 3
A - 1
Ld - 8
Sv - 4+

Squad of 5 men, armed with frag grenades, flash bangs, M1014 shotguns and M9 sidearms.

Options:
AA-12: one soldier in the squad may be armed with an AA-12 automatic shotgun for 15 points.

Special Rules:
Counter attack
Move through Cover

M1014 shotgun - this is a powerful, semi automatic shotgun. It has the following profile: Range - 12", S - 3, Ap - 5, Assault 2.

Assault troopers - these soldiers are kitted out with kevlar vests to reduce casualties. It gives the unit a 4+ save.

Flash bangs - the unit throws it's flash bangs before making it's mark. When firing at an enemy that is within 6", the unit may elect to throw it's flash bangs. The affected unit subtracts 1 from it's cover save, and subtracts 1 from it's Initiative when assaulted.

AA-12 - the AA-12 is a mostrous weapon. It has the following profile: Range - 12", S - 3, Ap - 5, Assault 6, Pinning.

S_P

There is no way that modern humans have anything CLOSE to Space Marine accuracy. Perhaps when inside some aircraft or via unmanned drones perhaps, but not a chance that ground troops come close to it.

The sad truth is, no matter how you spin it, Modern Earths military is to the Guard (if it were real) what a Kindergarden kid is to a grizzled war veteran.

It's probably more fair to say that Earth's military is closer to a PDF than the Guard. There CAN be highly effective and accurate veterans, but most troops wouldn't be that good.

also, for your list Melissia, not a single model in it should have an armor save ... our body armor is made for solid ammo, a lasgun at ap6 would still slice clean through and out the other side of the guy.

Kevlar wont stop laser beams.

Lasguns are AP -

And still would slice though it. xD

With a 6+ save you might as well not have armor anyway?

Melissia wrote:With a 6+ save you might as well not have armor anyway?

Not true. The number of times a 6+ has won me a round of combat are innumerable.

Thats my point, theyre basically NOT wearing armor for 40k based weapons, kevlar does would do absolutely nothing to laser beams. Let alone some ork chopping you with a chain axe or something ... lol. Point being any armor save and they get saves in cc which doesnt make any sense.

even a 6+ save would be a bit much.

Okay, I suppose I can see the reasoning there.

Maybe a special rule that for every wound caused each individual soldier has to take two wounds and needs a 5+ or 6+ on both?

For codex:modern earth to be competitive we'd need a lot of aircraft. From what I've seen the Imperial air units would get chewed up and spit out by F-22's and sukhoi T-50's if for no other reason than Imperium craft are going to light up the radar screen while the modern craft are stealth, then the superiority of the guard would be less so as they'd get consistently get pounded from above from A-10's and F-35's.

What about Warhammer: Modern Warfare?


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Melissia wrote:With a 6+ save you might as well not have armor anyway?

1 in 6 chance is better than no chance.

xxmatt85 wrote:No are weapons are far weaker than a lasgun
a Assault Rifle would be
St 1 Ap - R 36 Type Assault 1

I gurantee if you (T3) were shot with an assault rifle, you’d be wounded FAR more than 16.6% of the time (S1 v T3).


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I’ll make a point on the psychological issues people have brought up… The human race is a remarkably resilient and adaptable species psychologically. Of course modern soldiers are scared, but they’re trained to deal with their fear. It doesn’t really matter what they’re facing – their mastery of their fear is more a representation of self discipline than a matter of what they’re facing.

Put yourself in the shoes of an Afgani insurgent who probably grew up on some farm and never went outside ten miles of his meager village. He faces an enemy that is as alien to him as the Tyranids or Space Marines would be to us – attack helicopters that annihilate with impunity, AC130 gunships that reign death without reprisal, Tanks that can crush a brick building as easily as a tin can… and yet he fights. He is not well trained or well equipped and yet he faces an enemy that he can’t even begin to comprehend from a technological standpoint. He is scared – terrified – and yet he fights.

The Vikings were unto the Dark Age conscript as demons from another world. They were huge hulking monstrosities clad in the skins of dead animals brandishing the trophies of death. They rode to battle on steeds that dwarfed the cavalry of the day. They were the embodiment of the concept of horror beyond imagination – we can’t even begin to fathom in this modern age. Yet, when possible, the medieval warrior stood against the Viking.

Today’s modern soldier would certainly be terrified to face something like a Hive Tyrant, Warboss, Chaos Space Marine, or Avatar. He WOULD face those things in spite of his fear though. Perhaps those things would push him to his breaking point, but so too does the prospect of a sniper watching him or an IED waiting for him.



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kill dem stunties wrote:Thats my point, theyre basically NOT wearing armor for 40k based weapons, kevlar does would do absolutely nothing to laser beams. Let alone some ork chopping you with a chain axe or something ... lol. Point being any armor save and they get saves in cc which doesnt make any sense.

even a 6+ save would be a bit much.

I’ll make a point here as well – IG have 5+ armor but there’s a bit of an unrealistic biological factor that 40k doesn’t really take into account. Impact is impact and just because a shot doesn’t penetrate your armor doesn’t mean it won’t kill you. If a human were given carapace armor and shot with a heavy bolter we’d still die. It isn’t the impact that kills you – it’s your internal organs smashing against one another and hemorrhaging that kills you. When the energy of what is essentially a miniature hand grenade being shot at you with the speed of a bullet hits you it doesn’t need to penetrate the armor. The energy transfer into your skeleton and internal organs would pulverize you.

When Iron Man moves at the speed of sound and gets slammed by a missile moving in the opposite direction… Stark’s dead… Stark’s a puddle of goo in Iron man’s helmet. The Iron Man suit may be perfectly fine, completely unharmed, but the biological entity inside is red oatmeal.

We can assume that Space marines have an enhanced physiology that makes them more resilient to such a horrific attack but humans today and humans in the 41st millennium are pretty much the same. If an IG soldier has 5+ armor, than the modern soldier also has 5+ armor. A gaunt with a 6+ armor save basically has the equivalent of a plastic shell around its body. Today we have some pretty strong stuff but the assumption would be that anything capable of penetrating 5+ armor simply surpasses the human body’s capacity to withstand the impact whether it penetrates the armor or not.