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Clever thinking about that Broadside+Ethereal set-up, focusedfire! It certainly is a good way of using an Ethereal.

The thing about equipping units with a variety of weapons is you risk them becoming a jack of all trades and master of none.

Thank you for the complement Killkrazy. When I run the Ethereal like this I take some careful steps to mitigate the possible damage.

First, is bonding knives that will allow for regrouping on all basic infantry.

Second, This is part of why my Elite crisis suits come in 2 suit teams without drones. I can run them without bonding knives because they never fall be low 50% unit strength. The other part for the 2 man crisis teams is to keep the footprint small for JSJ.

Third, is keeping transports available to load the basic troops into if it looks as if the Ethereal might become a casualty.

Fourth, Try as best as I can to give the broadsides/Ethereal a commanding view of battlefield that still will convey a coversave.

Fifth, If fighting in densely packed city or any LOS blocking board. I'll often put the etheral in a transport with a troop. I do this because the LOS blocking setup neutralizes the Ethereal benificial aspects and makes him a bit more of a liability that needs mobile protection.

Fortunately board set-ups like this are fairly rare. If I know its going to be a city campain I switch to a more XV-8 heavy list.

Rules for Aun'Shi can only be found in the next-to-last Codex for Tau - the one that came before Tau Empires. Can you use him in 5th? I don't see why not with opponent permission. It was sad to see him taken out of the mix. I think this is because GW wanted to sell the larger, cooler (and more expensive) commanders. Aun'Shi, if you don't use the original rules for him, can at least count as a standard Ethereal.

Since the advanced stabilizers take up a hardpoint on the broadsides, do oyu forgo it entirely in order to have as many drones as possible, or do you take it and a hw controller, and go with 4 drones?(two from leader, two from Aun)

p.s. how many hard wired systems may one model take?



p.p.s. and what is jump-hoot-jump?

It states under the Advanced Stabilizers entry last paragraph:

"Also, if one model in a team has advanced stabilization then all models in the team must be similarly equipped, and if one model makes use of the system, all must do so. The unit may still take drones."

This rule is written like a joke and by the actual wording has no legitimate effect or benefit on the crisis suits. It was GW telling everyone what the system did that made it playable.

Don't believe me. Go ahead and read the rule. It implies using heavy weapons but never actual states clearly what it does. The only thing stated semi-clearly was that the unit can still take drones when taking the A.S.S.

Thank god its purpose has been established by GW and Tourneys or rules lawyers would strip the already weakened Tau army of one of its few remaining good tricks.


Please forgive my rant. I must be reading too many of HBMC's posts.


@Maj. Tom-Now to answer your questions

1) Somewhere in the above rant is your answer about the drones being taken with the A.S.S.

2)There is no limit to the number of HW systems that an allowed model can take. Basically, if the model is allowed to take wargear then it may take as much as the 100pt limit allows. This does have the proviso of the weapon/hardpoint being limited in number which is why you can only fill a certain number of them.

3)Jump-Shoot-Jump is in reference to a select few units(Primarily Tau Jet-packs and Eldar jet-bikes) that have the ability to move during movement, then shoot during the shooting phase, and then move again during the assault phase without having to actually assault. It becomes a shooty version of the kids game of Peek-a-Boo.


Hope this answers your questions.

And by 'may still take drones' it means...

A) A.A.S counts as a drone controller?
B) Player may take a Drone controller in addition to A.A.S?
C) A.A.S. does not take up a support system Hard point?
D) A.A.S. makes your battlesuit explode on a 2+
E) all of the above
F) None of the above/other (specify)________________________________

It is currently accepted to mean that you can take a drone controller whether its HW or other.

Like I said, it is a horribly worded description for the wargear item. This is just a case of go with it until someone with authority tells you that you can't.

All I know is that last line is a blanket generalization with an implied intent. It makes no sense to make the statement as any who can take the special issue stuff would be able to also take drones. So, it leaves the implied intent of they can take drones even if they otherwise couldn't.

Have you read the whole entry? If so what do you think?


All I can say, from personal experience, is that the list has been accepted at several tournaments as legal so I'm not gonna argue.

Wish I could be of more help.

I take it to mean that if you pay for one battlesuit to take it, you have to pay for everyone in the unit to take it as well. Because drones don't have the option to take it, they make an exception and say you can still have drones.

Aduro wrote:I take it to mean that if you pay for one battlesuit to take it, you have to pay for everyone in the unit to take it as well. Because drones don't have the option to take it, they make an exception and say you can still have drones.

That is how I read it. The A.S.S. still takes up a hardpoint and then the only way to get the drone controller is through a model that can take hard-wired gear.

See Thats the problem. There is no reason for them to state such as it is already stated in the battlesuit wargear entry.

The statement "May still take drones" is an exception meaning that even though the whole unit has to buy this limited wargear item (Something that in every other instance is a one per army item) The "Unit"(Not model) may take Drones.

Its poorly worded but once you fumble through and then look at GWs stance on the rule it becomes clear that this is an exception rule.

I didn't wan't to go further but now inevitably someone is gonna make this a YMDC issue. This is why I suggested to leave well enough alone. Dakka is full of people who like to try and kick an army that is already down.


OK, Time to reset and try again.

This is all very off-topic, but seeing as I was answering the OP questions to the best of my ability, I'll try once more on this one before it goes to YMDC as someone tries to make an issue of this.

So, Advanced Stabilization Sytem from this point on referred to as the ASS.

1)Crisis suits have only three hardpoints available. It looks like four but according to their rules its only three.

2)Broadsides are a type of Crisis suit. But they come already armed so have only one available hardpoint. This is per the unit entry.

3)ASS entry is so poorly worded that it actually fails to define the special issue item. It only states a couple of things clearly and the rest you have to take GWs word on what the rule meant.

4)Outside of Command Squads and their Retinue, only team leaders have access to the Battlesuit Wargear list. This list includes Hard Wired systems.

5)The special note about special issue items states the only models with access to the special issues items are models that are allowed to take from the Wargear lists. This means the Commanders, Bodyguards, and Team Leaders.

6) It is important to not confuse the Battlesuit Wargear list with the Battlesuit support and Battlesuit weapons lists.

7)The ASS entry alludes to firing heavy weapons without clearly stating such. It was so poorly worded that GW took pains to clarify shortly after the Codex's release.

The GW stance was that it allowed Crisis/Battlesuits to fire heavy weapons.

8)Without this clarification, the rule had no meaning. This is because every XV-8 Battlesuit weapon could be fired while moving at full speed. Normal crisis suits have no Heavy weapons available to them under their Battlesuit options. The only exception ended up being the XV-88 Broadsides because of their pre-equipped heavy weapons systems. This is why this item was considered to have been written for the XV-88 Crisis "Broadside" Battlesuits.

9)Now working from the implied intent and an official GW statements(May be an old FAQ laying around somewhere)from in store and from the old Help line(Is that ever going to return?). The ASS was established as a piece of wargear that allowed the "Broadsides" to move and fire their heavy weapons.

10)ASS Takes up a Hardpoint under the Battlesuit Support list. The broadsides only hardpoint. AND, the entire Squad has to buy them thus filling up all of the available hardpoints.

11)Shield Generators take up a hardpoint from the Battlesuit Support systems list. So when equipping ASS you have an 80pt model ith no inv save and is able to be instakilled by almost any ordinance weapon.

12)One of the only two things that the ASS entry clearly states is that the Squad may still take drones.

Now to the point.

A) Its already established that the squad would not be allowed to take drones in this circumstance, only the Team Leader.

B)The team leader would already be able to take the HW drone systems and would not need a rule to state such.

C)The entry states the Unit not Team leader.

D)Does Unit = Squad? Yes

E)Does the ASS entry give any further clarification? No. You have to work from that point on under the drone controller rules as to any further definition of what limitations there may be.

F)Is this crappy writing and a convoluted way to try and understand this? Yes

G)Could the stance on this have changed? Yes, but it would have been since December/January which is the last time I took a list to tourney with the Broadsides loaded with ASS and more than 2 drones. At that time the list was accepted as legal but a good YMDC argument could change that and thus further reduce the Tau's mobility in relation to other armies.

H)Could I be wrong on this? Yes, I'm some strange person on nthe interwebs. So please, check it out for yourselves and if I'm wrong please let me know(With Proof) so that I can avoid writing illeagal lists.



You guys take it from here.


Edited for spelling and spacing

Tau weapons s-whynot-stems and battlesuits are all equipped with stabilizing g-whynot-roscopes that enable them to bring weapons to bear at speed. An advanced stabilization s-whynot-stem allows the wearer a degree of mobilit-whynot- whilst firing even the heaviest of weapons.
During the Movement phase, the battlesuit may choose to use the Slow and Purposeful universal special rule for the remainder of the turn. Though if it does it ma-whynot- not make an additional jetpack move in the Assault phase.
Also, if one model in a team has advanced stabilization then all models in the team must be similarl-whynot- equipped, and if one model makes use of the s-whynot-stem, all must do so. The unit ma-whynot- still take drones. © 2005 games Workshop ltd.

While i myself have not read the entry in question, i have tediously transcribed it (somehow without reading it) for the discussion's benefit. for copyright purposes not only have i cited games workshop but i have replaced all original examples of the letter 'y' with '-whynot-'

And i tend towards options A or B, though more towards b since it says 'ma-whynot-' and also 'drones' and not "drone controllers"

It also mentions jetpack but the only unit to benefit from the rule doesn't have jetpacks. ?

What heavy weapons do the crisis suits take?

Why go to the trouble of stating that a unit may still take drones and then limit them to what is already stated in the rules?


The whole codex is full of such things. A clear testament to how rushed the codex was.


I invite you to read the entire battlesuit section of rules and the to compare with how they work in fifth edition. If you still feel the need to press this point then please, go ahead and argue to take away the Broadside ability to have limited movement.

I say this because no one will take the ASS if it limits the number of drones down to 2. The squad will be too vulnerable to all those S8-10 AP2, Large Blast ordinance insta death guns running around out their in 5th ed.


So who is gonna take this over to YMDC?

The A.S.S. takes a hardpoint, and a drone controller takes a hardpoint, and broadsides only have one. That's as RAW as it gets. The fact that it says they may still take drones does not lift their restriction of only having one hardpoint. You cannot have drones without a drone controller. How are you putting both A.S.S. and a drone controller on a Broadside that is not the team leader? The two rules do not contradict each other.

(My bet is they say they can still take drones because even though A.S.S. says the entire unit must take it, drones can't, so without that clarification, the team leader would not be able to take a HW Drone Controller with drones, because the drones could not purchase the A.S.S.)

Why would the drones need ASS?

Also refresh on what drones are. They are wargear that counts toward total wounds when determing if a unit has to take leadership test.

The only exception is the gundrone squad which has to be purchased in and of a size to where the limited AI can network to operate for prolonged periods of time.

When they are attached to an infantry unit(Jet-pack or basic) They are wargear. And wargear doesn't get to take wargear. There is no need for the statement under your argument.

focusedfire wrote:Why would the drones need ASS?

Also refresh on what drones are. They are wargear that counts toward total wounds when determing if a unit has to take leadership test.

The only exception is the gundrone squad which has to be purchased in and of a size to where the limited AI can network to operate for prolonged periods of time.

When they are attached to an infantry unit(Jet-pack or basic) They are wargear. And wargear doesn't get to take wargear. There is no need for the statement under your argument.

The drones are purchased as wargear, but function as models on the tabletop, with profiles and everything! They can even be killed. The Drones need ASS because the wargear description for ASS says that all models in the unit must purchase the upgrade. Well, drones would certainly fit that criteria if the ASS entry also didn't say that the unit may still include drones.

However, none of this has any bearing to the argument, because ASS and the Drone Controller both take a hardpoint. How can you squeeze two hardpoints out of the broadside's one available hardpoint without it being hardwired? You can't.

They wouldn't under this circumstance. Reason? Wargear cannot benefit from wargear, even if they have their own profiles. It would take a special non-existant rule to pop into existance just for your interpretation to have any validity.


The argument is does the phrase"The unit may still take drones." constitute an exception clause to the normal standard of what a Broadside can take?

I believe it does, because no other argument has any actual basis or grounds to stand on. Also because "Take Drones" was at the time Tau slang which included the drone controller. Is this sloppy writing? Heck yes. Its one of the biggest reasons why I can't wait for the next codex.

I also believe this because I feel it were illegal it would have been noted and my tourny lists would have been disallowed.

I'm not arguing that its a poorly written description. I'm the one who brought it up.

When I first got my Codex I promptly made several phone calls to Sanchez and the guys manning the help-line, talked with other Tau players, and even made it a point to ask the store worker who was teaching the Tau to some begginers.

If you feel this needs to be addressed in YMDC, then go ahead. I'm not going to because its been allowed and 5th ed has been "Interresting" enough for the Tau.

The last codex was rife with such problems.

Look at the rules and try to determine who benefits from markerlight hits.

Try to figure out what is exactly a Tau unit for purposes of general rules that mention any Tau unit.

Read the Cyclic Ion blsater entry and feel your brain cells commit Hari Kari.

If you bring it up inYMDC I'll debate it there but I'm really trying to keep from derailing this thread any further. I've only gone this far because of the OP's continued questions.

Long story short:

Farsight: Limits your choices as far as variety and quantity of certain units goes. Allows a much more XV8-heavy army than possible without Farsight. A Farsight army will have to still play as Tau do, but with the use of obscene amounts of Crisis suits (mobility, mobility, mobility). Farsight is decent in HTH, but since this is not conferred to his bodyguard in the latest codex (3rd ed. had awesome rules for upgrading Farsight units), you will still want to keep Farsight armies out of HTH

Shadowsun: Best strengths is that she is hard to kill (stealth armor, armor sv, wounds, invulnerable), and her/command drone allow her to give units with 18 inches her leadership save. This is best utilized either where you expected the thickest fighting (FW squads with her leadership = good). She also can be used to augment Stealth squads with higher leadership/firepower.

I see some advice on shadowsun saying that you can deep strike her. Read her entry in the codex. No where does it state that her and her special suit have the deep strike rule.

All Jet-pack/Jumpacks can now deepstrike. It a new 5th ed. rule under the description for Jump-infantry.

Makes the Vespids more useful, also.

Good call I didn't see that part in the main rule book!

Same Jetpack entry ALSO invalidates the "no heavy weapons" restriction on non-broadsides, as YES, suits technically may fire rapid but not heavy weapons as if immobile... But atop this now those with jetpacks thanks to the wording can too (yay relentless)! ... not that we've anything to do that with outside the XV81/84 and stealth markerlights.

By the way; Team Leader gets access to wargear but not special issue. They're very specific about special issue being available to Shas'Vre or better (though not given exactly as this, and thus a shas'vre somewhere COULD 'not get access', all the ones currently around, that's what they get for the extra few points.

AN upgraded team leader, in a suit. E.G. Shas'ui » Shas'vre can take it. Some lucky shas'la in a suit » Shas'ui, can take it. But yeah as it stands pretty much Shas'vre and above can take special issue wargear

@Maj Tom-Whitedragon started a thread over in YMDC. You might want to check it out.

Also, You guys are gonna have fun with this little item that I noticed. While you head over to the YMDC thread look in your Tau codices.

Then, Please to tell me where exactly it says that you HAVE to take a drone controller to take drones.

focusedfire wrote:The A.S.S. was designed for the broadsides. There is no other crisis based unit currently able to use heavy weapons.

The wording was a little weird on the item, though. Almost like an inside joke to see if anyone would be dumb enough to put them on a regular crisis suit.


Also, it says "may not make an additional jet pack move in the assault phase" as opposed to giving up the move in order to use the wargear. Two very different things.



Edit for rule clarification

There is: If you give your broadsides plasma rifles, you can use the SMS arms on a crisis suit so you can use the A.S.S

There ia no option to buy the SMS system for a Battlesuit. So again, if the rule actually has any meaning at all then it is designed for the Broadsides.

There is a thread started by whitedragon over in YMDC concerning the ASS system and its limitations.