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Agamemnon2 wrote:I'm also not well enough established on ebay to post any negative feedback on items without the repercussions from vengeful sellers seriously affecting my ability to bid on items in the future. The minis in question have been very low-priced so I'm personally not inconvenienced all that much, so me destroying my ebay credibility in return for making an accusation against the seller is really a bad deal.

I thought eBay changed the policy so that Sellers couldn't leave Negative Feedback...

The_Chaplain wrote:I believe that they're recast. The cannon in the first pic appears to have a warped barrel. Same with the top hydra barrels.

Also, used or not the seller wouldnt be profiting for selling an item for 1/3 of the cost if it was the real deal.

Lol, and Forgeworld never ships warped pieces?

Yeah.... sellers can't... they can give you a Positive negative feedback though lol.

(Positive feedback.. with a negative message!)

That pretty much it.


While - as a buyer - you can negative and 1 star them.

@ Rogue Market : Actually that guy is claiming that they are original products that they designed and made. They even claim to have consulted a lawyer about any possible copyright infringement. So, yeah, it is a recast, but of something they made themselves, which is a little different if GW doesn't supply a similar enough item.

Lol, and Forgeworld never ships warped pieces?

I have never received a piece from forgeworld with any warpage, or even one of these dreaded "air bubbles"-- maybe I'm lucky but they appear to be a company that knows their s***.

My friend works for the new Armorcast, and apparently duping resin stuff is pretty basic. If the resin color doesn't match, you prime and dry brush to conceal it. Keep in mind that Armorcast stopped legally making the titans almost a decade ago, and there's no real shortage of them on the market.

That's not enough to label any single reseller as a duper. But considering what he's selling (all good stuff that people want, and no garbage like conqueror turrets), how it's being sold, and how much of it he's selling... I would be aware that the stuff was duped.

RogueMarket wrote:
Found another recast on ebay -

http://cgi.ebay.com/10-Salamanders-Shoulder-Pad-Bits-For-Space-Marines-40K_W0QQitemZ280374467271QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item41479edac7&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A2125|293%3A1|294%3A50





recasting backpacks? I've seen some other ones as well

Really, RogueMarket? You're accusing Chapterhouse of selling recasts after this event?

Classy. Real classy.

The forgeworld is definitely recast. No one has that many of the same item painted the same with no tank to go with it. There is no reason to have two of the same painted Reaver weapons.

Edit: Yeah what is with all the swindlers lately?

Really, RogueMarket? You're accusing Chapterhouse of selling recasts after this event?

Classy. Real classy.

it was clear i didnt recast anything from CH, on the other hand are you telling me CH scartch built those backpacks

Question is - do you support recasting? No right?

The backpacks are not original made - even if it is the exact same design as a GW backpack - you are jacking a product they've already made,

@ Rogue Market : Actually that guy is claiming that they are original products that they designed and made. They even claim to have consulted a lawyer about any possible copyright infringement. So, yeah, it is a recast, but of something they made themselves, which is a little different if GW doesn't supply a similar enough item.

Is this tolerable to create an exact product that IS GW/FW ip and sell it?

Its not.

Iorek wrote:

RogueMarket wrote:
Found another recast on ebay -

http://cgi.ebay.com/10-Salamanders-Shoulder-Pad-Bits-For-Space-Marines-40K_W0QQitemZ280374467271QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item41479edac7&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A2125|293%3A1|294%3A50

Really, RogueMarket? You're accusing Chapterhouse of selling recasts after this event?

Classy. Real classy.

Based on his past actions, I'd expect nothing less of him.

(If you check the auction, he's accusing the creator of recasting their own custom product)...


BTW, everyone, if you go to games-workshop.com, there's a company knocking off all sorts of current and classic GW minis!!!

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Iorek wrote:

RogueMarket wrote:
Found another recast on ebay -

http://cgi.ebay.com/10-Salamanders-Shoulder-Pad-Bits-For-Space-Marines-40K_W0QQitemZ280374467271QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item41479edac7&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A2125|293%3A1|294%3A50

Really, RogueMarket? You're accusing Chapterhouse of selling recasts after this event?

Classy. Real classy.

Based on his past actions, I'd expect nothing less of him.

(If you check the auction, he's accusing the creator of recasting their own custom product)...


BTW, everyone, if you go to games-workshop.com, there's a company knocking off all sorts of current and classic GW minis!!!

John - fact is -

Is it really a custom product where he took a space marine back pack and added scales and flames. He recast a backpack in doing that. Thats recasting even if he did add flames and scales. He did NOT build the backpacks.




Theres a difference between bias hate and facts.

RogueMarket wrote:it was clear i didnt recast anything from CH, on the other hand are you telling me CH scartch built those backpacks

Question is - do you support recasting?

Point 1: I have no idea if you recast those or not, but that's not the point. The point is that there was some animosity between you and Chapterhouse a few days ago, and then you post this.

Point 2: I absolutely do not support recasting. Falls under IP theft, which is really all GW is selling.

Iorek wrote:

RogueMarket wrote:it was clear i didnt recast anything from CH, on the other hand are you telling me CH scartch built those backpacks

Question is - do you support recasting?

Point 1: I have no idea if you recast those or not, but that's not the point. The point is that there was some animosity between you and Chapterhouse a few days ago, and then you post this.

Point 2: I absolutely do not support recasting. Falls under IP theft, which is really all GW is selling.

Then my only point is this.


Regardless of previous conflict - fact is fact. Even if this event above - and linked did not occur -

If it isn't me thats pointing it out - then someone else - it makes NO difference. Does it?

No arguements made - I'm just laying down the facts.

My post stands as relevancy to the topic in which Dakka does look down upon recasting.

Which I equally agree as well.

Mistress of minis wrote:Ya, it does look odd.

I do know some people that have bought that many turrets- but they also have the tanks to go with them. Sellin them like this, partially painted is suspect enough. But with one buyer already admitting hes gotten white resin they are obvious knock offs. FW hasnt used white/amber resin for several years now.

But hey, if they are good casts without bubbles.....

If they are crappy casts though- dont plan on being able to return them to FW for replacements lol.

Caveat Emptor

The Vulture I got direct from Forge World 2 weeks ago was White resin so I duenno....

RogueMarket wrote:
Is it really a custom product where he took a space marine back pack and added scales and flames. He recast a backpack in doing that. Thats recasting even if he did add flames and scales. He did NOT build the backpacks.




Theres a difference between bias hate and facts.

You have to love when the most clearly biased person in the room is claiming to be objective.

The legal status of chapterhouse studios is actually unclear. GW is no doubt aware of what they've done, from what they've said they've hired a lawyer, and it's quite possible that as third party accesories those are totally legal. The only way it would be resolved is through a court case which GW doesn't want to do because it can open the door to all kinds of third parties that won't run scared at a Cease and desist.

Duping turrets is clearly illegal. It's a well settled legal issue.

Polonius wrote:

RogueMarket wrote:
Is it really a custom product where he took a space marine back pack and added scales and flames. He recast a backpack in doing that. Thats recasting even if he did add flames and scales. He did NOT build the backpacks.




Theres a difference between bias hate and facts.

You have to love when the most clearly biased person in the room is claiming to be objective.

The legal status of chapterhouse studios is actually unclear. GW is no doubt aware of what they've done, from what they've said they've hired a lawyer, and it's quite possible that as third party accesories those are totally legal. The only way it would be resolved is through a court case which GW doesn't want to do because it can open the door to all kinds of third parties that won't run scared at a Cease and desist.

Duping turrets is clearly illegal. It's a well settled legal issue.

If Duping turrets is clearly illegal - as you state.

please read my edit in the post above.
Duping backpacks - thats clearly illegal.

Thats all I'm pointing out.





FYI - he did NOT make the backpacks.

GW Made -



Source:
http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/images/thumb/c/c9/Unreleased_-_Space_Marine_Salamander_Backpack.jpg/144px-Unreleased_-_Space_Marine_Salamander_Backpack.jpg



VS

These are original sculpts and not cheap GW ripoffs, I respect the GW IP rights and we made sure we did not infringe on them according to US copyright laws (lawyer was consulted).

These are high quality pewter.

RogueMarket wrote:
If Duping turrets is clearly illegal -


please read my edit in the post above.


Duping backpacks.


Thats all I'm pointing out.

Unless you're an expert on IP law, you can't say that the legal issues are the same. In fact, even if you were an expert on IP law, you couldn't say that. One thing is clearly illegal, the other might be. Copyright law is complicated, even for the people that practice it.

I showed you a GW bit.

Again - CH has made an exact copy of it.

Its the exact same case if you copied the FW turrets.




Only reason why i posted so much - is because people are defending that its an original sculpt.


Its not.

RogueMarket wrote:I showed you a GW bit.

Again - CH has made an exact copy of it.

Its the exact same case if you copied the FW turrets.

And again, there was alterations made, unless I'm missing something. So, it is not the exact same case. It might seem that way to you, but you don't know how it works. Neither do I, of course, but I know that just because two cases have nearly similar facts doesn't mean they will come out the same way if the important fact is the one that changed.

At least part of it is original. That might be enough for legality.

RogueMarket wrote:
Thats all I'm pointing out.

for the 5th time in a row... in the same thread... sounding like a broken record. why don't you start a thread about this on your rogue market? people might care there and it need the post count anyways.

Polonius wrote:

RogueMarket wrote:I showed you a GW bit.

Again - CH has made an exact copy of it.

Its the exact same case if you copied the FW turrets.

And again, there was alterations made, unless I'm missing something. So, it is not the exact same case. It might seem that way to you, but you don't know how it works. Neither do I, of course, but I know that just because two cases have nearly similar facts doesn't mean they will come out the same way if the important fact is the one that changed.

Heh - unless i'm blind.. there is NO visible changes. . . .
Maybe someone give me a 2nd opinion?

Its also the claim in the posting - that says its 100% original.
It IS a 100% copy.

Agreed - I'm no IP lawyer or anything like that.

At least part of it is original. That might be enough for legality.

And yes - it could be.

Well, I see now how similar they are. If the original is a GW bit, than it'd be a much closer case. I'm not entirely certain how Chapterhouse got a an unreleased mini and duped it, but I'm sure it's possible.

Even then, it's clear that GW hold the copyright to the FW stuff. Not as clear here. Not to disparage collecting GW minis.com, but it's possible they screwed up.

NeedleOfInquiry wrote:
The Vulture I got direct from Forge World 2 weeks ago was White resin so I duenno....

Thats actually good to know.

Has anyone else gotten white resin items from FW recently?

How White - is white resin? is my question..

Mistress of minis wrote:

NeedleOfInquiry wrote:
The Vulture I got direct from Forge World 2 weeks ago was White resin so I duenno....

Thats actually good to know.

Has anyone else gotten white resin items from FW recently?

4/10 of my Cadian Respirator kits were white resin, the rest a darker gray.

Agamemnon2 wrote: I'm also not well enough established on ebay to post any negative feedback on items without the repercussions from vengeful sellers seriously affecting my ability to bid on items in the future.

How so? The worst that the seller can do is block you from bidding on their auctions in the future... which you're not going to want to do if they're selling recasts anyway.

The seller would - bid and win your item and negative feedback you.

This would then make his record *suck* - and next time he sells items - he'll get lower sales.

When he bids on things - with lower feedback, sometimes he will get denied.


Thats what he meant.

RogueMarket wrote:The seller would - bid and win your item and negative feedback you.

At which point you report the feedback to eBay, under the grounds that the 'buyer' bid on your item solely for the purpose of leaving negative feedback, and the feedback will be removed.

Yep.

Unless he really accepted your item and 'pay' for your feedback...

Cuz if he recieved it.. then it could be deemed as 'legit' MAYBE.

RogueMarket wrote:

@ Rogue Market : Actually that guy is claiming that they are original products that they designed and made. They even claim to have consulted a lawyer about any possible copyright infringement. So, yeah, it is a recast, but of something they made themselves, which is a little different if GW doesn't supply a similar enough item.

Is this tolerable to create an exact product that IS GW/FW ip and sell it?

Its not.

I was not aware that Games Workshop or Forge World was making Salamander backpacks and shoulder pads.... I'm pretty sure neither of them are actually.... Also, how are you so sure they didn't sculpt the backpacks and pads? That's a pretty moot point, however, as people aren't going to buy those as generic back packs and shoulder pads, they are going to buy them as Salamander packs and pads, which neither GW or FW make. No, not recasting. Recasting would be taking a whole model, generally unmodified, making casts of it, and producing models from there.