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MeanGreenStompa wrote:

olympia wrote:
Support your FLGS

I certainly do. Online discounts are of no bloody use if you're nowhere to play the game. Paying a couple of quid extra to ensure I have an amazing store to use for painting, gaming and talking with the rest of the geek and nerd collective is entirely worth it.
Oh and I'm not limited to only one gaming system...

Anyone in the Bristol/South West area, come by 'Cut and Thrust' (or Mr Kolodotschko's Emporium of Needful Things as I like to call it... )

http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/store_details.jsp?s=18

Buy Local!

Models And Monster - The perfect combination

Launching a business now a days is hard, and though 45% sounds like a lot to some people in margins it more often then not is not. You figure shipping alone can sut up to 5% off your margins. Now add in your rent bills, and salaries for employees and you are lucky to walk away with 10%. Now take into account you have to save some of that for the low months of sales as it is never constant high volume and you are lucky to walk away with 2 or 3% profit. Now on an average purchase of $50.00 that means I am lucky to keep $1 to $2 bucks as overall profit. This is not much in the long term and nickle and diming does not add up in this case because you have to insure that you are keeping the most up to date inventory and that takes money from your stock piles. Depending on your geographic location you may be doing head over heals in sales but this more often is not the case for many. I had a store front in Oregon and saddly my partners thought of it as their own personal play den instead of a business. This meant they stole from the business thus forcing us to sell out after about 2 years. I am currently about to relaunch out here in Mass and believe me no partners this time around, and I work as an IT so I make more money from that thankfully(though not atm as well the economy sucks).

Che-Vito wrote:

olympia wrote:Support your FLGS

http://www.nrhsa.org/welcome/guide.cfm#RealityCheck

Reality Checks

70% of all businesses fail in their 1st year

70% of the surviving businesses fail in their second year. Less than one new business in ten survives beyond seven years.

The average "new" business owner will work six to seven days a week, put in well over 70 hours per week and earn less than minimum wage for his/her efforts.

The gross profit margin for the average hobby shop is around 35%, before expenses and taxes. Net profit margins are usually less than 10%.

FACT - It takes five to seven years for the average small business to reach the break even point and start to show a steady profit.

I don't know where you got those numbers. I work at a FLGS, see the margins...and can assure you that it is much better than that.

I can tell you that stores selling GW product at GW prices, will generally be spending only 45% or less of what you pay, to purchase the product.

It's actually pretty good numbers. GW product is 45% off with no shipping, if you are a stockist. To get that full 45% you need to:
-Never give a discount or have a sale.
-Make sure you stay in the stockist program, or order over 400.00, so you avoid shipping costs.
-Never get shoplifted.
-Sell through 100% of the merchandise you order with nothing left over. (Start the year with 50k in GW, end the year with 50k in GW.)
-Don't have any damaged product you have to discount.
-Don't sell bitz orders, specialist games, or any website only items.
-Don't open paints for your own use, or take any models from the shelf for demo armies.
-Don't take credit cards. You're down to only a 42% margin immediately if you do, on the portion of sales paid for with cards.
-Buy all GW directly from them, and never from a secondary distributor.

Do all of that and get the mythical 45% discount. 35% is a pretty good estimate otherwise. I think I hit a bit higher, but I've been doing it for 22 years now. I break every one of those rules I just posted, at some time of the year for some, and constantly for others.)

Working at a store, and actually having to do the accounting for a store, and having the responsibility of running it, come with vastly different levels of knowledge.

I've seen those numbers and reports before. Still accurate, still scary.

Empchild wrote:

Bad luck about your old store Empchild, good luck with the new one - if i did live outside AUS i'd definitely support you

Empchild wrote:Launching a business now a days is hard, and though 45% sounds like a lot to some people in margins it more often then not is not. You figure shipping alone can sut up to 5% off your margins. Now add in your rent bills, and salaries for employees and you are lucky to walk away with 10%. Now take into account you have to save some of that for the low months of sales as it is never constant high volume and you are lucky to walk away with 2 or 3% profit. Now on an average purchase of $50.00 that means I am lucky to keep $1 to $2 bucks as overall profit. This is not much in the long term and nickle and diming does not add up in this case because you have to insure that you are keeping the most up to date inventory and that takes money from your stock piles. Depending on your geographic location you may be doing head over heals in sales but this more often is not the case for many. I had a store front in Oregon and saddly my partners thought of it as their own personal play den instead of a business. This meant they stole from the business thus forcing us to sell out after about 2 years. I am currently about to relaunch out here in Mass and believe me no partners this time around, and I work as an IT so I make more money from that thankfully(though not atm as well the economy sucks).

Apologies for your misfortune mate.

However, with some 'clever' accounting you can negatively gear your life through your business and still live well after the initial start-up phase.

@mikhaila - I dont htink anyone, even GW, can live up to those expectations.

This is what my buddy swordbrotherjim and I have been saying at our own store, which was robbed of about $9,000 of merchandise and cash and will be closing within the next two weeks.

The local gaming store is much more than a simple retail place. It is a place to actually get to use the stuff you buy. And, with the exception of rare stuff I find on eBay or here, I have purchased everything I use at this store.

But the people who constantly buy the uber-army off the internet, drink warm sodas in their cars during breaks, and constantly complain about the condition of the store are exactly the people who are causing the local games stores to fail. The stores are basically full of loiterers, not buying anything, using up electricity and toilet flushes, and not paying back to the store, like squatters.

One store in Roanoke had a quick solution to this: $5 table fee or $5 in store purchases. According to the owner, 9 times out of ten, the people took the purchases, buying some drinks and some snacks. Once you "break the seal", then the cash flows again, and the store can stay open another day.

Now, am I saying that using internet stores is bad? No. In fact, many of them are brick-and-mortar stores themselves, the WarStore comes to mind most readily. But you are not playing there, so why are you paying someone else's rent and complaining about the state of your own FLGS?

olympia wrote:Support your FLGS

I would but the ones I know don't have the mythical F.

I think people are confusing LGS with "store you play at".. If you dont play at your store then yeah I can see why using internet retailers is acceptable. I have lots of local game stores, but when I talk about FLGS Im only talking about the one I play at

However if you actively play at your store then any reason not to buy at your store is just an excuse. If the store wasnt there you couldnt play, its irrelevant if theyre as friendly as you want them to be because thats pretty subjective. If you use their space you should buy your stuff there, period.

Again any reason is just an excuse to explain why you're acting against your best interest. Dont assume others will support the store, do it yourself

I can see why some stores shut down very fast.
I have known many stores (albeit card games store not Mini-Wargaming ones) where the friends of the owner (read: local tfg group) could do whatever they, we're talking bout damaging other's properties and insulting them, and would always get away with it. Guess what, they closed.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:But the people who constantly buy the uber-army off the internet, drink warm sodas in their cars during breaks, and constantly complain about the condition of the store are exactly the people who are causing the local games stores to fail. The stores are basically full of loiterers, not buying anything, using up electricity and toilet flushes, and not paying back to the store, like squatters.

Back when I played TCGs there was plenty of those type of people, I've seen many stores close due to many players not buying there because they could get stuff cheaper elsewhere but couldn't play.
Now if I could find a nice FLGS (you know, well lit and employees don't play WoW all day) I'd buy there and play there.
ATM I buy online and I play nowhere, I wish it was otherwise.


Sometimes the fault is on the store's owner sometimes it's due to players not buying there, altogether it helps bad statistics.

Ive known plenty of bad store owners.. One local store said they didnt want me buying at their store any more because I went to ANOTHER local store

Talk about horrible decisions :p Theyve almost closed down now

Well I guess I'm lucky. My local store has an absolutely awesome manager. I have it on good authority he makes a loss every year yet still keeps his store open just for the customers (doesn't hurt that he's loaded). He holds in store events whenever he gets the chance, despite the small size and he is always willing to get a game in and show the new guys how to play. As a regular and vet of the store I support him 100%. Since moving to China I have only once bought elsewhere for some WFB movement trays and even though I'm paying slightly more at his store I don't care. It's also 1 stop underground away from my home so that helps as well.

Support your FLGS!

"The average "new" business owner will work six to seven days a week, put in well over 70 hours per week and earn less than minimum wage for his/her efforts."

My family opened a bakery and this^ was true of pretty much everyone in the family for a long time.

My dad once asked me if I would ever consider starting my own small business... I laughed.

Go to school get a degree and work for someone else and let then sweat about paying all the bills.

I always support my FLGS's. I live in a gaming Mecca (7 Non-GW Shops within an Hour w/4 GW Shops in the same range). I generally don't purchase much between tournaments but when they host a tournament I always take the buy in, $20 in product, vs. just paying the flat $10. Basically giving the store a little extra as a thank you for hosting a tournament and giving me a chance to play with toy soldiers. It's pretty much the only way that I do though cause to be honest I get most of my newest stuff through winnings so I don't buy to much generally unless it's bitz.

Hulksmash wrote:I always support my FLGS's. I live in a gaming Mecca (7 Non-GW Shops within an Hour w/4 GW Shops in the same range). I generally don't purchase much between tournaments but when they host a tournament I always take the buy in, $20 in product, vs. just paying the flat $10. Basically giving the store a little extra as a thank you for hosting a tournament and giving me a chance to play with toy soldiers. It's pretty much the only way that I do though cause to be honest I get most of my newest stuff through winnings so I don't buy to much generally unless it's bitz.

Lucky Son of a...