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Wow that's actualy a really good list well done you don't need to do anything to it!

I think this is a great thread about kan wall lists

learned alot of this one..also nice list by now

So I played a few games at my FLGS and had a blast! I learned a TON from playtesting the list as well.

1.) Forgetting that the looted wagon needs to roll a "dont touch that!" makes the wagon more powerful than it should be. With this little tidbit fresh in my brain I will be dropping the wagon and going for another set of three kans. My wagon more than earned back its points in both games I played, with the second game my wagon taking out a full unit of Khorne Berserkers AND a full unit of plague marines... but I doubt now that it will shine like that every game.

2.) In the list I played I had a squad of nobz in with my boyz for added punch. My nobz, and a whole unit of my boyz, never made it to combat. Tabled my opponent before they got in range! (this is game two, the two excellent pie plates i landed might have had something to do with that...)

3.) Deff Dreads are fun, but extremely weak vs. mobs with power fists/chain fists. This goes without saying, obviously, but the fact was reaffirmed in both games.

4.) I NEED MORE AP2 WEAPONS. Both my normal opponents LOVE termies. AP2 vs MEQ seems like it will be invaluable.

I could go on, but instead I'll consolidate and list my changes to my army.

1.) Dropping looted wagon, picking up three kans with grotzookas (1 pie plate at 36" range is nice, but I think 6 blasts at 18" will work just as well along with giving me three vehicles for the price of one to further strain my enemies AT)
2.) Dropping rokkits from the remaining 6 Kans, upgrading to KMB's for a total of 30 more points. I know many people say this is a waste.... but I just see too much 2+.
3.) Dropping the 2 DCCW's on my dreads, replacing with 2x Skorchas instead. Saves me 20 points each, so 40 total, that are transitioned over to pay for the KMB's on the kans. Plus it further makes up for losing the looted wagon's pie plate by adding in more templates.
4.) Contemplating dropping the nobz in that last list for a commando squad with snikrot. Something to toss things up a bit while I'm marching ahead.
5.) If I drop the nobz and pick up snikrot, I'll also be dropping the battlewagon. With 9 kans and 2 deff dreads, I think I have enough DCCW's for the land raider that both my chaos and space wolf opponents bought just for me.
6.) With the points from the dropped BW I'll pick up the three buzzkoptas I left out a WAYS back.

Any Ideas on these changes? posting a new army list shortly!

mercer wrote:

ChrisCP wrote:

mercer wrote: This is a proper Kan wall list: http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2011/01/army-lists-orks-kan-wall-2000-points.html

That is not a "Proper" wall, just "Another Kan-Wall list" and it's also yours.

Kan wall list includes Kan right? Better than Kanz and Wagons, and it's a list I wrote it's not something I use and a perfect example of what a Kan wall is. So where's your proper Kan wall list then?

As you said yourself it's something you threw together for a mate and don't use yourself. But the point is there's no 'proper' Kan-wall list.

This is because a Kan-Wall has the same issues as the Ork codex - diffusion will kill one's effectiveness. Depending if one wan’t to shoot them straight to death or use the pressure of 9 kans to walk them off the board, one will take different units.

Hytep wrote:So I played a few games at my FLGS and had a blast! I learned a TON from playtesting the list as well.

1.) Forgetting that the looted wagon needs to roll a "dont touch that!" makes the wagon more powerful than it should be. With this little tidbit fresh in my brain I will be dropping the wagon and going for another set of three kans. My wagon more than earned back its points in both games I played, with the second game my wagon taking out a full unit of Khorne Berserkers AND a full unit of plague marines... but I doubt now that it will shine like that every game.

2.) In the list I played I had a squad of nobz in with my boyz for added punch. My nobz, and a whole unit of my boyz, never made it to combat. Tabled my opponent before they got in range! (this is game two, the two excellent pie plates i landed might have had something to do with that...)

3.) Deff Dreads are fun, but extremely weak vs. mobs with power fists/chain fists. This goes without saying, obviously, but the fact was reaffirmed in both games.

4.) I NEED MORE AP2 WEAPONS. Both my normal opponents LOVE termies. AP2 vs MEQ seems like it will be invaluable.

I could go on, but instead I'll consolidate and list my changes to my army.

1.) Dropping looted wagon, picking up three kans with grotzookas (1 pie plate at 36" range is nice, but I think 6 blasts at 18" will work just as well along with giving me three vehicles for the price of one to further strain my enemies AT)
2.) Dropping rokkits from the remaining 6 Kans, upgrading to KMB's for a total of 30 more points. I know many people say this is a waste.... but I just see too much 2+.
3.) Dropping the 2 DCCW's on my dreads, replacing with 2x Skorchas instead. Saves me 20 points each, so 40 total, that are transitioned over to pay for the KMB's on the kans. Plus it further makes up for losing the looted wagon's pie plate by adding in more templates.
4.) Contemplating dropping the nobz in that last list for a commando squad with snikrot. Something to toss things up a bit while I'm marching ahead.
5.) If I drop the nobz and pick up snikrot, I'll also be dropping the battlewagon. With 9 kans and 2 deff dreads, I think I have enough DCCW's for the land raider that both my chaos and space wolf opponents bought just for me.
6.) With the points from the dropped BW I'll pick up the three buzzkoptas I left out a WAYS back.

Any Ideas on these changes? posting a new army list shortly!

The changes sound good, and will add to the dependability of your list. I’d recommend the Kommands be about 10 strong.

I’ll be interested in your testing with the ‘Zookas, whenever I’ve tired them they’ve done a good job but I’ve felt “If they were rokkits/kmb this could have been easier

Here is the list! I went with 15 commandos for the mob rule, hoping it will help me out in that first round.

Big Mek + KFF = 85
Big Mek + KFF = 85

3x Kans w/ KMB's = 165
3x Kans w/ KMB's = 165
3x Kans w/ Grotzookas = 135
Deff Dread w/ 2x Skorcha and Griggers = 90
Deff Dread w/ 2x Skorcha and Griggers = 90

5 Lootas = 75
5 Lootas = 75
10 Commandos w/ Snikrot and 2 Burnas = 215

30 Shoota Boyz w/ Nob Upgrade, PK, Bosspole = 220
30 Shoota Boyz w/ Nob Upgrade, PK, Bosspole = 220
10 Gretchin + Runtherd = 40

Kopta w/ Buzzsaw and TL Rokkits = 70
Kopta w/ Buzzsaw and TL Rokkits = 70

Thats my 1800 point list, which is what we are playing at now. At 2000 I'll be dropping 2 commandos and picking up a third squad of buys (as much as I HATE painting those little green jerks)

Comments and critiques? Thoughts on this vs. the previous lists? This is my favorite so far considering what my last few games have been like.

(Revised to correct snikrot's squad mistake, trimmed down kommandos, added griggers to dreads and picked up a gretchin squad)

Looks rock solid to me. The only thing I'd consider changing is giving at least one of your Dreads 4DCCW. I'd also consider removing the 2nd Dredd and replacing it with 1 more Deffkopta with buzzsaw. They are just too good of a unit.

6 10str power weapon attacks on a charge is disgusting. Even if he ends up being a prime target, again, that's just one more target saturating your field, giving your enemy more tough choices to make. Make sure you give them Grot Riggers and Armor plates as he'll be running for a couple turns most likely so you don't want him to be hindered by stunned results or worse, immobilized.

Also I would try to fit in a unit of 10x Gretchen + Herder. You don't need a third squad of boyz I don't think. Gretchen will hold your objective while your boyz slog ahead and take your opponent's objectives.

You're 10pts over on your snikt squad btw

ChrisCP wrote:You're 10pts over on your snikt squad btw

How do you figure? 15 Kommandos = 150 points + 2 burnas = 180 points + Snikrot = 265

Then it's an illegal unit size 5-15 where this unit now has 16 models.

Snikrot does not count as a Kommando. He is a Special Character that goes with the max unit size Kommandos, which is 15.

Straight out of the INAT FAQ:


ORK.99C.01 – Q: Does taking Snikrot replace one of
the Kommandos in the mob?
A: No, Snikrot is taken in addition to the Kommandos in the
mob (although a Nob may not be included in the same mob)
[RAW]

The INAT FAQ is not rules =P In addition that answer gives no permission to break the unit limit of 15 models, it simply says he does not replace one.

Then in that case let me put it this way...

If you were to take a nob instead of Snikrot, for the purposes of not confusing special characters...you're saying then you'd have 14 Kommandos + 1 nob, because the max unit size of Kommandos is 15, correct?

What about in a squad of Boyz? Are you saying in a 30 man squad of boyz if I take a nob, I can only have 29 boyz? I don't get the logic here....unless i'm missing something in the rules.

Yes, in a 30 model boys squad if you have a nob you will have only 29 boyz.

So his troops are illegal too? I find it weird then that you just singled out the Kommandos and didn't point out his troops were illegal too.

Nearly everyone I've spoken with about this (in fact, I had the same question about this rule...specifically whether you can take Snikrot in a squad of 15 Kommandos, and every source said it was legal).

My other question to you now is...if INAT FAQ is not rules...then what's the point of it? If it's legal in a tournament setting, then it's legal anywhere else no? Isn't purpose of the FAQ to clarify the rules in certain situations? Because as we all know in our beloved game of 40k, there are MANY disputes on what the rules actually are (how they are interpreted/how they are intended to work).

If you do the points on his troop squads it works out to a total of 30 members.
Why ask me about the INAT faq? I have nothing to do with it's production or purpose. How can something that's "100% unoffical" be at all leagle 'anywhere else' - the INAT for example isn't used at 'ard Boyz.

But lastly, where is the permission to have 16 models in a Kommandos squad? It doesn't exist. As things stand the squad size is 5-15 one of which would be Snikrot. Take it to YMDC if you're really unsatisfied, as the position you are taking would be the 'most advantageous' (and actually breaks the unit size limit) and therefore the most likely to cause issues at a table.



****

Back on topic: I would trim the Kommandos down to a total of 11 members, giving yourself 50 points to play with Ie the Gretchin Erudog recommended. These guys are invaluable in allowing one to have a way of holding home objectives without giving up killy.

Thank you for pointing that out ChrisCP! I totally overlooked that and appreciate the heads up. Thats just 10 more points I have to spend elsewhere now!

Erudog, my boyz mobz are in fact 29 boyz plus a nob. The way I listed them was meant as a base of 30 boyz plus a nob upgrade, which replaces one of the boyz. I agree with ChrisCP on this in that since you can take 15 kommandos OR 14 commandos and a nob, that with Snikrot you can take a max of 14 kommandos and Snikrot. Right or wrong, this seems to be the way the book leans due to it saying INSTEAD of being led by a nob you may choose Snikrot.

Will adjust accordingly, thanks!

Nope, this was clarified in this thread http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/349075.page

He was right about the boyz, but I was right about the Kommandos. You can in fact take 15 + Snikrot.

I see, and change my opinion! It's a moot point for me now thanks to a reduction in the # of commandos I am taking, but good to know anyways. Thanks for clearing it up!

Hytep wrote:I see, and change my opinion! It's a moot point for me now thanks to a reduction in the # of commandos I am taking, but good to know anyways. Thanks for clearing it up!

You're welcome. Good luck on your Waaagh!

Are you attached to shoota boyz? I just am not a fan of them with BS2. Have you tried a list with sluggas and choppas maybe in trukks?

going agaisnt the grain here, I LOVE mega nobz and looted wagons. looted wagon pieplates are great fun, and make marines go SPLAT. I run 3 MANz with megaboss and they crunch my friend's termies EVERYTIME. They are, of coarse, in a BW though.

Iandroid wrote:Are you attached to shoota boyz? I just am not a fan of them with BS2. Have you tried a list with sluggas and choppas maybe in trukks?

When I first started playing orks I outfitted all my boyz with choppas and sluggas. I like it, but quite frankly there isnt much that lives through 3 attacks per boy at 29 boyz and a nob to begin with and assault 2 shots from the shootas, while at BS2, are awesome. BS2 with 2 shots means each boy has a .55 chance to hit. 30 boyz, .55 chance, thats 16 hits on average at str4. Usually it's str4 vs tough4, so 50% chance there, thats 8 wounds that make it to them just from boy squad A, and I still have the other squad to shoot with as well! I just feel that the shoota boyz are more competitive, but my list WILL be tweaked to use 1 shoota 1 choppa/slugga mob at 1800 and 2 shoota 1 choppa/slugga mob at 2000 points just because i already have some choppa/slugga mobs painted and some of my boyz are from aobr.... which are all preset to use choppa/slugga.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is another question that I would love some opinions on.

I am not going to argue about how cheesy using a IC with Snikrot is. I believe that it is allowed, based on ambush being a special rule and not the clearly defined outflank that is prohibited.

That being said,

Is it possible to effectively run a 9 kan list with only one big Mek?

and secondly,

Is it worth dropping the second mek and consequentially the second dread and picking up an IC to come in with snikrot? I want some armor killing power klaw power in the squad, maybe something small like a warboss? would thraka be worth it or too many points to use for this?

Opinions from the crowd please!

WAAAGH!!!!