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I still think Steadfast is the stupidest rule to be added in the last 3 editions. It makes combat mindless if you have enough numbers. If not, then you are pretty much screwed even if you are hard hitting.

I would be happy if any flank attack negated steadfast then I think it would do its job (make massed infantry viable) and introduce another level of tactical depth.

I like 8th edition and I swear with some minor tweaks it could be great but the chances of getting a 8.5 patch is nigh on impossible.

So I'm buggered against skaven? Really?
I managed to use the fire cage spell to good effect, the one that gives each model a S4 hit if it moves. This prevents a unit from flanking me, but unless I can guarentee all my mages having it it's pretty much useless.


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It did just occur to me that HE spearmen in a large block would deal with skaven blocks pretty effectively. As I understand it they'd fight in 4 ranks in a turn they didn't charge. With re-rolling to hit from always striking first you'd be looking at 21 attacks, about 16 hit, 8 wounds. Would definitely tie them down, anyway.

Remember that you cannot have the same spell twice in an army, and as such(with few exceptions) no spell can be cast twice per magic phase.

Joey wrote:So I'm buggered against skaven? Really?
I managed to use the fire cage spell to good effect, the one that gives each model a S4 hit if it moves. This prevents a unit from flanking me, but unless I can guarentee all my mages having it it's pretty much useless.


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It did just occur to me that HE spearmen in a large block would deal with skaven blocks pretty effectively. As I understand it they'd fight in 4 ranks in a turn they didn't charge. With re-rolling to hit from always striking first you'd be looking at 21 attacks, about 16 hit, 8 wounds. Would definitely tie them down, anyway.

Yeah they do alright but the problem I have is after they have poped the slaves they are left standing in front of a furnce/plague monk unit or something else that will eat them.

Skaven are just a stupid army to play against. They were broken in 6th, can't remember them in 7th, and they are broken now with the current mass infantry rules and metagame.

Anybody painting High Elves should not have a tin of black undercoat within a 100 miles. Never understood why people paint white on black. Spray them grey.

Silverhelms are not a good unit, ditto seaguard, but if you're only playing friendly games, it doesn't matter that much.

Agree about steadfast.

I proxied the sea guard as spearmen and didn't use the silver helms anyway.
So I should just play skaven expecting to lose, or not play them at all?

I would play Skaven, as I've said before at the end of the day it's plastic soldiers.

Indeed. Only the weak give up just because there's no hope of winning.

Play for the sake of playing, but against the rats I wouldn't expect anything stellar to happen.

Against Skaven high magic becomes extremely useful. Flames of the phoenix is awesome against the massive clan rat/slave blocks, and the staff of saphery (pretty sure this is the right name) makes sure you get it every single time.

Most Skaven units are just expendable, like the aforementioned slaves. Try to just not get into combat with these at all. Redirect, flank, do whatever you need to to get these massive blocks of worthless guys out of your way. You have some very effective tools for this in the high elf book in the form of reavers and eagles. If you use them correctly you can usually draw the giant slave blocks away from the rest of his army.

In most Skaven armies there will be one central unit where most of the points have been sunk. (Clan rats with a screaming bell?). That one unit usually makes or breaks your opponents list. If you can deplete or destroy it (here is where flames of the phoenix starts working overtime) you can usually win the game. This is really the only unit that you want to get into combat with also, and you want your biggest block of guys (spear men?) right there in the front with as many chariots and etc. as you can get in on the flanks. If you can kill that one unit you will usually either win or draw the game, so your entire game plan should revolve around drawing it out of the protection of the rest of the army, isolating it, and then just throwing everything you have at it.

So, all told, while it may not be your best match up, High Elves vs. Skaven is far from unwinable.

I'm thinking of fighting cheese with cheese.
Take Teclis next game and hitting them with flames of the phoenix.


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Actually Life could be attractive with Dwellers gaurenteed.

Teclis with Dwellers is beast.

easiest way to break skaven is with a spearman bus. we can win combat against them and if we have more ranks than them they're not steadfast.

run an archmage and pick a lore that contains an "All models in the unit take ____" spell. iirc high magic flames of the phoenix will work just fine, dwellers is the provincial favorite, I believe metal turns models to gold on a 5+ with one of their spells, and it gives you good offense and defense buffs + kills brettonians in a not at all fair way.

steadfast is the most important rule. run a couple of big busses, you will smash into his lines, destroy them, send them fleeing before you and then you will catch them.

Oh, and you can run the ellyrian reavers to harass and tie up warmachines, or run some great eagles for the same purpose.

Teclis with Shadow or lvl 4 with silver wand shadow, lvl 2 with seer staff taking flames, and what ever I like shield but to each their own.

Debuff toughness on units with teclis follow with flames non same unit. Whole unit takes a s3 hit that phase, a s4 start of next magic phase, and he has to waste dice to stop it and making his magic phase less effective.

My 50 man unit of LSG with the flaming banner has been nothing but awesome.

1: The only core requirement up to 2500 point games.
2: Volley fire
3: Horde spears with ASF (They even mince chaos warriors)
4: Start Spread 25 wide usually so everyone gets to shoot, then reform into deeper ranks, ready to take the charge.
5: COupled with a horde of 40 WLs on their flank they are a brilliant anvil.
6: VP denial. If the unit is wiped out, then you would be buggered anyway. 1 unit of 50 is a hell of alot harder to kill than 2 units of 25.

They do struggle vs armies with masses of small units (lizardmen skink spam or O&G) as the unit can only pick out 1 enemy unit per turn.

Aerethan wrote:I still think Steadfast is the stupidest rule to be added in the last 3 editions. It makes combat mindless if you have enough numbers. If not, then you are pretty much screwed even if you are hard hitting.

QFT

GW like it because it sells models, they could encourage bigger games another better way though.