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So... nobody?

Rough guess? Too many disputes so PayPal pulled them.

So irritating that the one person making quality mats is so unreliable.

sigh...

 Breotan wrote:
So irritating that the one person making quality mats is so unreliable.

sigh...

a terrible truth, that
i've wanted to get a mat(s) for some time, but have avoided it because of all the hassle i've heard about

I lucked out and mine came through fine. Very happy about it! Maybe he'll sort out his PayPal issues once he's caught up, since he can't really be selling anything while his PayPal is out of commission.

If his paypal account has been pulled for too many refunds that probably permanent, even if he has the funds in there to cover it as Paypal does get fed with giving refunds

although he could keep going using a real Credit Card facility, but that would be more expensive and less convenient for many buyers

Is that why it was closed? People in the other thread said they just waited for delivery. I didn't see anyone say made a paypal complaint.

 Eilif wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
This is too bad.. I have so many mats from Zuzzy, I wonder what happened.

Yep, it's a darn shame. Our club has a few of these and we love them, but I wouldn't buy one myself based on what I'm reading here.

I beg to differ

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/605753.page#7057243

 Lutharr101 wrote:

 Eilif wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
This is too bad.. I have so many mats from Zuzzy, I wonder what happened.

Yep, it's a darn shame. Our club has a few of these and we love them, but I wouldn't buy one myself based on what I'm reading here.

I beg to differ

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/605753.page#7057243

"Beg to differ" with what?
I'm not seeing an objection or contradiction in your message or link.

Or do you beg to "differentiate" since you're linking to a comparative review?

Does anyone know how he makes the mats? If it's not too hard, it might be worth one of the other manufacturers picking up production of the things.

 Ketara wrote:
Does anyone know how he makes the mats? If it's not too hard, it might be worth one of the other manufacturers picking up production of the things.

Sounds like you're volunteering, Ketara! Thanks!

I just wish someone who knows him would volunteer to contact him in person and ask, "Yo, dawg. What's up with your business being all closed and stuff?"

 Breotan wrote:
So irritating that the one person making quality mats is so unreliable.

sigh...

Assuming they are doing it in roughly the same way I have done them...it can't really be helped too much.

Each "mold" has to be full sized - so a 4x6 table matt will need a flat mold that is a couple inches wider in both directions. The first layer has to be brushed on by hand in order to get all the details and no bubbles (and the 2nd, 3rd and 4th layers for that matter). Takes about an hour between coats. Apply a reinforcement layer (mesh cloth works well). 4 or 5 more coats. Turn on the heater and leave it to sit for 12 hours. From start to finish - one matt will take 20 or so hours (not including any sort of final finish work done). During that time - it is taking up a big chunk of space in your workshop.

Because of the time frames involved that means that you can do one matt every 2 days roughly per set up...possibly 2 over the course of a weekend if you want to blow your entire weekend. Assuming there is no Zuzzy factory, and he has a descent sized 2 car garage to work in - that means he could probably do 6 matts in a weekend (under threat of divorce no doubt). More realistically that would be 3 matts in a weekend along with maybe another 9 through the course of the week after working the 9 to 5 day job (pretty sure that he works a day job as each matt probably has $30-40 in materials and he sells them for $50-60 or so...which by my labor estimations would mean he makes right around $4 per hour to make them).

All of that in mind - it looks like Burger King may have killed another great product. I can understand the desire to have the product supa fast and expect corporate call center response times on questions, however the reality is that a large majority of suppliers are doing the things they do because they want to and are making crap all money doing it. When they then become burdened with all the garbage that goes into running a real business, you often find them saying "screw it" and just not bothering with it anymore.

Over the years, I have seen it happen with dozens of "companies". Many great products like these are not available because there is no money in them - and the hassle isn't worth it.

Is that to say that I am making an excuse for the long delays and lack of communication from a company? Not at all. He probably should have done what I have done. Don't advertise, don't hunt for work, let people find you through word of mouth only. Have simple terms like, get in line and I will get to you when I can, if you don't like it - go away (my terms and I have a backlog that goes well into next year).

He didn't though, so people are rightly upset. At the same time, it is important to remember what is actually going on and consider the ramifications of what you are doing. If Paypal has shut down his account, it is likely that he will have difficulty opening a new one. This means that for the few people who grew impatient and complained - all the other people have lost out on the chance to get them (it is unlikely he will bother with setting up a regular CC processor - and most people will not bite on the option of sending a check through the mail).

Yes, Sean, but the fact remains that his problems could have been mitigated by simple communication with his customers. The biggest complaint people had was that they couldn't get a response to their queries. And now we can't even put in an order if we want to.

Go to his web site or facebook page and you'll see both have been neglected (let run on autopilot) for nearly a year now.

Meh. Maybe you're right. Maybe he just got tired and stopped. Wish he would have said something first.

 Breotan wrote:
Yes, Sean, but the fact remains that his problems could have been mitigated by simple communication with his customers.

The reality still remains though, that unless he knew of some secret process - I can't see how he would be making more than $4 per hour on each mat. Customer service pays $0 per hour when you are a one man show - even more so when you have a significant backlog of work (so he probably didn't worry too much if he "fails any tests" that people might have by asking questions about products in emails...). It also often takes a lot of extra time that you would rather spend filling orders or actually enjoying life.

Considering I had never heard of anyone placing an order and not getting it - I would still have considered him reliable and a good vendor (with the caveats of the delays of course).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Breotan wrote:
Go to his web site or facebook page and you'll see both have been neglected (let run on autopilot) for nearly a year now.

Orders were still be filled. Likely no news on Facebook or his page because he hasn't had time enough to create news. New molds don't just come out of thin air, and they take time to create...again, with the limitations of a cottage industry, he likely didn't have time enough to make them - so no news.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Breotan wrote:
Meh. Maybe you're right. Maybe he just got tired and stopped. Wish he would have said something first.

He might have turned off Paypal himself - but more likely that it was turned off because of complaints. If he is as busy as I would expect - he might not even realize it was turned off on him.

Now, getting it turned back on...well, that is another issue which will involve a fair amount of effort on his part. I wouldn't be surprised at this point if the lights just go out at Zuzzy for lack of wanting to continue to deal with all the BS relating to it.

I really wanted to order a mat from Zuzzy, but that wait i just cant deal with :(

I agree with Sean answering peoples questions takes a long time and quite a few are repeat questions.

I am at a crossroads because once my kickstarter ends I will have to devote 95% of the time filling the orders (over 680 cases - 3000+ trays to glue then check orders, pack and ship and still increases) and I won't have as much time to reply because it will set me back on delivering. So there is that fine balance all us one man bands have to find.

As to

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

Have simple terms like, get in line and I will get to you when I can, if you don't like it - go away (my terms and I have a backlog that goes well into next year).

I'd also add to that

Don't go away mad, just go away

Tyron wrote:
I agree with Sean answering peoples questions takes a long time and quite a few are repeat questions.

That's different from leaving your web and facebook unattended for a year.

Tyron wrote:

I'd also add to that

Don't go away mad, just go away

+1 for the Heart Brake Ridge reference!

 Breotan wrote:
That's different from leaving your web and facebook unattended for a year.

If Sean's calculations are correct about the building process and him having a full time job, he may have a family also. We don't know what is going on in his life. As pointed out he may have preferred to get the work done and use the finished product as his form of CS.

Yes he could have done better in that department but I don't think everyone saw the bigger picture and therefore lost it forever.

 urbanevil wrote:

Tyron wrote:

I'd also add to that

Don't go away mad, just go away

+1 for the Heart Brake Ridge reference!

Ha! Glad someone picked that up

 Breotan wrote:

Tyron wrote:
I agree with Sean answering peoples questions takes a long time and quite a few are repeat questions.

That's different from leaving your web and facebook unattended for a year.

I wouldn't say unattended. If that were the case, new orders would not be going out. People have received product as recently as last month according to this thread...so he was still doing stuff with it. It hasn't been updated, but that is sort of like saying because I haven't repainted my house in the last year it is abandoned... Nope, still live here, just don't see the point in repainting it for the sake of repainting it. Same goes with Facebook - though due to the interactive nature of social media...that is another one of those things where I would probably not have a Facebook page if I were him (or at least not one which allows user comments).

It might seem like something that shouldn't take too much time, but considering that people will go over everything you say with a fine tooth comb looking for trip ups and slip ups (just because they are butt cheeses) - it isn't something that I would consider making quick posts without careful thought regarding every word used.

Update: Zuzzy's paypal account is working again. I don't know how long it's been up since I didn't check in over a month. He didn't post anything on his site about the issue and I haven't checked his FB account. Man, I wish this guy would just make a post or something if only to let people know he's alive.

Anyway, I put in an order for a 6x4 Despoiled Reaches mat. We'll see how long it takes to arrive.

Just put in an order for the ruined city version; I'm OCONUS for another 7ish weeks so I figured the delay wouldn't bother me as much. The reviews of the product were solid, and I could use a roll up, urban terrain piece that will just require washing/painting/washing.