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Humans, Orcs, Elves, Chaotic Humans, Dwarves and Undead. In a pseudo medieval world. Complete with ye olde map. What exactly is unique here? What does this game provide that literally hundreds of others cannot, beyond a tabletop experience I can get from a tabletop game?

Well, I guess there's a fantasy Total War thing there (aside from actual TW modes or the actual WHFB Total War that Sega/Creative Assembly is apparently working on). Could be fun, nonetheless.

The actual tabletop game I'm much more dubious about. Not helped by the continuous posting of game renders as "exclusive miniatures"....

We are now LIVE on Kickstarter! Please support us!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/752412507/mark-of-war

While I love the demon and human soldier on foot, the elf has features that are way too thin to make in miniature form. The funding goal is also really high! I hope it goes well but this seems like a large mountain to climb.

@ RiTides - Thanks for the feedback! Yes we have a long ways to go and can really use the help from the community in spreading the word! We really want to make Mark of War an incredible high quality game and with the support from the community we know we can make this happen!

It's a shame I don't use a PC anymore, I use tablets and consoles now.

A million dollars for a single player campaign? You've got to be joking.

The main point of a PC game like this in my opinion is to play "Fantasy Battles" when you don't have a human opponent. Online net play and all that is great, and probably mandatory, but no SP as a base? No.

OK, now I've seen your kickstarter page, some feedback.

1) Cost. It's a bloody big number there. $500k for a basic game, $1mil for what i'd call a fleshed out game with 4 armies and single player. 2 mins on KS search tells me that of over 5,000 video game projects, only 20 have made $1mil plus. Most of those have big names involved, Braben, Roberts, Obsidian, etc. You guys and Gav Thorpe do not have the name pull to get people to pledge just because of the name, and as an indy studio with zero previous releases it's a big ask for people to pledge cash to an unknown company with no record of delivery. 18 months ago this probably wouldn't have been as much as an issue, but guys like me who back KS's are alot more wary of where they put their money now, everyone has now seen KS's go belly up.

2) Platforms. The KS video splash page says PC/Mac/Windows/iOS/Android in the corner, but everywhere on the KS pages it says either PC/Mac or just PC. What is it? You need to be clear, as backers giving you cash for something to play on their iPad will be mighty pissed off if that's not true.

3) Miniatures. What scale are they? 28mm? 15mm? 100mm? 5mm? You don't say. What is the material being used? Digging through your website it says hard plastic but it doesn't say that on the KS page. You need to be clear what people are going to get. Also, as others have said, the "miniatures" renders you've shown are video game meshes, NOT 28mm/30mm miniature model ready. And it's not even about the level of detail (that'd never transfer), it's the proportions. What works on a 24" monitor does not work on a 1" high model. 1 further example of many issues - that Elf spear in 28mm scale is less than a hairs width. Good luck casting that. Sure you can fix that and the many other things, but then what a person is going to get is not what your showing - again, you need to be clear what people are going to get for their pledge.

4) The video. It's ok as far as KS video's go, but it's not showing enough of the game. Sure that may be because you've not got enough of the game to show, but that's an issue in itself. It leads me right back to "new studio, no record of delivery". The first 90 seconds really should be the game, not a dude talking about how he loves playing with his friends in his garage. You're passionate, i get it, but this is my money you're wanting, show me what you're going to give me for it. The voiceover & music was very good though.

5) The world/rules system. As a previous poster says, it's all very generic fantasy. No real hook there, no unique selling point. The background and world you've shown so far is not compelling enough to go away from what i'm currently into, and there's very little about the game rules you'll be using on the KS page. We're tabletop wargamers, we like details ! "You can move and perform 1 action each turn" does not cut it. It also leads me to my next point, your target audience is clearly tabletop wargamers, but us tabletop wargamers play specific systems. Sure we drop them over time and move onto others, but in creating a new rules set you're essentially asking us to buy into a new tabletop game, as well as buying a computer game. For example, currently my Fantasy game of choice is Kings of War. I can play it with my mates (in my garage, as you guys say), i can also play it on Vassal with anyone round the world, using the rules i know, using the army i have physically should i wish. And it's free. To buy into your KS we'd have to learn a new system, one that's not related to the tabletop games we currently play, and it'd cost us to do so !

My overall thoughts are that you're trying to do too much without enough thought put into the KS presentation. My suggestion is to cancel this KS ($6k in the first 48 hours when you need a million is not happening i'm afraid to say) and pare it down to the basics. You're an indy video game studio, mucking around with miniature models is not your core business. Get rid of the miniatures completely, Lose the generic fantasy world, an focus on getting your core game engine working. Then goto one of the many tabletop manufacturers and show off your engine, look for a deal to use their IP and games system and take that to Kickstarter. You'll immediately get the people who play that game interested, their understood rules and an ability to develop your engine, adding the must haves like single player at a far lower goal $$$.

It isn't going to make it...

I agree - pare things down and focus on the game - forget the miniatures (or worry about them later). They don't really seem to add anything to the mix.

The game itself is at least somewhat interesting. Also - I wouldn't pledge for a game that doesn't come with single player from the get-go.

0_o

I'd have given Gav Thorpe a hair stylist.

I wish you luck. It's ambitious, but someone's got to dream!

 Azazelx wrote:
A million dollars for a single player campaign? You've got to be joking.

The main point of a PC game like this in my opinion is to play "Fantasy Battles" when you don't have a human opponent. Online net play and all that is great, and probably mandatory, but no SP as a base? No.

I agree.

Online multi-player is probably a must have but a key point of computer games is the ability to have a good solo game.

I spoke with Mike McTyre from Warpforged Games last night for a Gamers Lounge interview and asked him many of the questions that have been posed in this thread. I also brought up a number of concerns that are raised here and elsewhere on the net. I have to admit that while I was excited for this project before speaking with him, I am even more so afterwards.

The hour long interview can be found here (http://gamerslounge.coda.net/2014/08/29/gamers-lounge-gamers-lounge-mark-of-war-interview/) and should be available on the feed via iTunes and other podcast feed managers.

It's an ambitious projects but they certainly have a path to success.

Team Member Spotlight - Gav Thorpe

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/752412507/mark-of-war


Hi,

We thought that it would be great if you learnt a little bit more about the people striving to bring you Mark of War. This is the first of several interviews from the team, starting with the legendary writer Gav Thorpe.

Who is Gav Thorpe?

I'm a freelance games designer and writer, and I am helping to create the new fantasy world for Mark of War. I have been working in the gaming industry for more than 20 years, including 14 years at Games Workshop. In that time my roles included heading up the Warhammer team as Loremaster, and a period as Lead Background Designer overseeing the development of the Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 worlds and histories.

What games have you worked on before?

In one way or another, pretty much every game Games Workshop release over that period, whether play-testing, providing additional material in the pages of White Dwarf magazine or as designer and developer. As well as Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 rule books and supplements I worked on Necromunda, Gorkamorka, the various Epic systems and Mordheim. I was also the creator of Inquisitor. In more recent years I designed Cutlass!, a pirate skirmish wargame for Black Scorpion miniatures. I have also consulted for and worked on several video game titles, including the Mark of Chaos Warhammer licensed game, and an as-yet unannounced AAA title.

What else have you written?

A lot! I've had more than twenty novels published by Black Library, the imprint responsible for the Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 fiction, and a whole heap of short stories, audio books and novellas. My most well-known works are Raven's Flight and Deliverance Lost for the Horus Heresy series, The Sundering for Warhammer, and Angels of Darkness and The Path of the Eldar for Warhammer 40,000. I'm currently writing a series called the Legacy of Caliban concerning the Dark Angels space marines, and my next release is Doom of Dragonback, a Time of Legends novel featuring the dwarfs.

How did you get involved with Mark of War?

Mike McTyre, big cheese at Warpforged games, first contacted me through Facebook! He gave me a short pitch on what Mark of War was going to be and asked if I'd be interested in working on some background material for the game. I love the idea of a tabletop wargame played as a video game and said I'd be very happy to get involved. As we exchanged more emails and talked on Skype it became clear that this was a unique opportunity to create a fantasy world for a video game from the ground up. It's been fun and very rewarding, seeing this world grow from a few early notes to the history and mythos we have now.

What is you favourite part of Mark of War so far?

There're lots of ideas and images I've really enjoyed, and I could say the whole concept of the virtual tabletop wargame. As a long-time fan of all things dwarvish I'm very tempted to pick dwarves on bears, but the truth is I'm really happy with the idea of the Harmony. This is the telepathic link between all of the elves, a subconscious connection that binds them together. Elves in many worlds are disciplined, swift and well co-ordinated. Ours are the same, but even more so, literally able to know what the elf beside them is going to do next, fighting together almost as a single entity. I'm looking forward to seeing how that awesome capability is represented in the game.

But there's still lots more we can explore, I really hope gamers rally behind the Kickstarter so that we get the chance to keep going. Warpforged Games are the perfect match of video game experience and gamer geekdom, the ideal combination needed to deliver this ambitious and amazing project.

Thanks Gav, great to hear from you. We'll be talking to other members of the Mark of War team in the future. And a big thanks to everyone that has backed Mark of War so far. Let's get the word out to as many people as possible and make this game a reality.

I salute the enthusiasm of the Mark of War team, but there just isn't demand for your product.

Tabletop gaming is an inherently tactile and visual experience. The best graphics in the world feel cheap compared to seeing a decently painted army on a decent table. They absolutely can't even hold a candle to a well painted army or force.

I cannot remember a darn thing from the hundreds of Halo matches I played in my youth, but I can absolutely recall the main events of particularly thrilling tabletop victories or crushing defeats. Our minds don't hold onto digital experiences the same way they hold onto physical ones.

I respect your enthusiasm for the project, and there seems to be some almost masochistic strain in video game developers who are willing to put in such long hours year after year, but tabletop gaming is an experience that is uniquely cheapened by a move into the digital realm. Even merely rolling real dice is so much more stimulating and rewarding than rolling virtual dice.

In short, nobody wants to play tabletop games on a virtual tabletop with virtual miniatures. There are lots of games that scratch the "I want to be a virtual general" itch already.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but in the kindest way possible, it is time to cut your losses on this project, and move on.

 nix2825 wrote:
I spoke with Mike McTyre from Warpforged Games last night for a Gamers Lounge interview and asked him many of the questions that have been posed in this thread. I also brought up a number of concerns that are raised here and elsewhere on the net. I have to admit that while I was excited for this project before speaking with him, I am even more so afterwards.
The hour long interview can be found here (http://gamerslounge.coda.net/2014/08/29/gamers-lounge-gamers-lounge-mark-of-war-interview/) and should be available on the feed via iTunes and other podcast feed managers.
It's an ambitious projects but they certainly have a path to success.

I'm not sure that "listen to a one-hour interview" is going to get people off the fence, or change the minds of skeptics. The first hurdle is getting people who aren't already excited for the project as you are to listen, and an hour is simply off-putting. The other thing is that if they were interested in answering the questions posed here with anything besides "it'll be great! trust us! just go to our webpage/facebook page" they would do it. Given that the KS period is where we actually get a lot of project creators pimping their wares and answering questions, etc - only to disappear pretty much forever afterwards, it doesn't bode well at all for the MoW team and their future communication. With a tiny comment volume like this to deal with (and Gav active in the comments anyway), I can't see how they could be too busy to answer questions on forums unless they just don't want to/too hard.